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Is it too early to dismiss Wiggins and Bannister?
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19676		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  Virgin Blue [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Is it too early to dismiss Wiggins and Bannister?
Probably not, but stranger things have happened in football, and both are strong bodies who could offer a young team some experience. And both are good trainers + as far as I can tell both are good role models (for our kids) off the field.

But could they both surprise and genuinely deserve a spot in the senior 22 over the coming few years? Bannister did an awesome job on Brad Johnson last year. Can he find a level of consistency in his game that will permit him to play that well as a mid size tagger/defender every week?

And what about Wiggins? I think his strength is as a leading mid size forward. He has had games where he has led hard from a FP and taken marks and converted, and he can also lead up hard across HF/wing and take marks.

My gut feel is Bannister is the one with more promise.
Author:  NTBlue [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:49 am ]
Post subject: 
If all our players were as "hard at it" as Wiggo we would be really on the up. There may be quite a few players with more skill but not many who outdo him for applying themselves and attacking the ball. I can't recall who it was against but I remember him laying a desperate tackle late in a game a year or so ago that was inspirational.
Author:  Noonamah Blue [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:51 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes they both deserve an opportunity to prove themselves under the new coaching regime at Carlton. I don't think that they should be condemmed to delisting till the end of the year.

IMHO Wiggins is more likely to survive than Bannister.
Author:  Molly [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:05 am ]
Post subject: 
Depends on whether it is Adam Crossthwaite taking the catch.
Author:  Punter22 [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:06 am ]
Post subject: 
Absolute last chance for both of them.

The only reason they get that chance is because it's clear the previous regime wasn't getting anywhere near the best out of the group, and there may be something that Ratten and co can unearth.

If they fail to become significant contributors this year, goodbye and good luck. It will be tough with kids like Armfield coming through who have impressed in nearly all of the training reports I have read to this point - he seems to be almost demanding playing time through his efforts on the track.
Author:  Blue Sombrero [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:19 am ]
Post subject: 
Punter22 wrote:
Absolute last chance for both of them.

The only reason they get that chance is because it's clear the previous regime wasn't getting anywhere near the best out of the group, and there may be something that Ratten and co can unearth.

If they fail to become significant contributors this year, goodbye and good luck. It will be tough with kids like Armfield coming through who have impressed in nearly all of the training reports I have read to this point - he seems to be almost demanding playing time through his efforts on the track.

Great post. Highlights why they should get a go and why they mightn't. If some kid is going to push them out through sheer effort, nobody will complain because that's how it should be.
Author:  TruBlueBrad [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:33 am ]
Post subject: 
Molly wrote:
Depends on whether it is Adam Crossthwaite taking the catch.


A guy rang SEN this morning and reckons it bounced a foot before Crossthwaite :roll:

Video was inconclusive and the keeper should know if it bounced first, you need to take his word for it.
Author:  Car17on [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Wiggo rated 958 after the same number of games last year, which is his peak in the time he's been with us. He's only managed 89 games in six years .. what's going on there?

Jordo's not much better .. he rated 720 after 12 games last year and peaked at 793 after 17 games in 2004. He's only managed 60 games since 2001 :roll:

It's probably time to shed the puppy fat .. if Wiggo can make it to 100 he'll be a prize pick at another club and might even be able to play a full season .. Jordo, though .. we'll just have to wait and see

(source - finalsiren.com)
Author:  budzy [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:39 am ]
Post subject: 
I think they're both great clubmen who fit nicely on the list as 'depth' players who are required when injuries take their toll.
Author:  Drewgirl [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sorry, but both are Crap.

If they are playing firsts this year, then we have not improved.

Gladly eat my words though, but I can guarantee I wont...........
Author:  kingkerna [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Fevola wrote:
Sorry, but both are Crap.

If they are playing firsts this year, then we have not improved.

Gladly eat my words though, but I can guarantee I wont...........


QFT
Author:  ryan2000 [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
I was a big fan of JB's. He could make a handy defender or flanker and he always looks like he's got what you need to make it in AFL but for one reason or another, he just never does.

Wiggens has a heart of pure blue gold. But sadly, he's crap.

Wiggens, Bannister & Blackwell are gonna really have to push themselves this year to break into our side, whereas in previous years we've no choice BUT to play them. So it will be interesting to see how they go.
Author:  aboynamedsue [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
budzy wrote:
I think they're both great clubmen who fit nicely on the list as 'depth' players who are required when injuries take their toll.


Agreed.

But they will be up against it to stay on the list beyond '08.
Author:  nytdog [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Wiggins has been very unlucky with injuries. It's been tough to string a bunch of games together where he plays near a full game. I've always thought that we are a better 22 with him in the team given his work ethic and commitment to do the team things. Sadly unless he has an injury free season (given history its unlikely) this will probably be his last year on the list. I hope he reaches 100. He is a better player than what people think. If he has an injury free year and given a fair go, he will make an impact, especially now that we have more class around him. He is the type of player you want in the 22 with class around.
Author:  Warby [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Allan Jeans said that any good side always contained some good honest soldiers that were always in there doing a job for the team.
Author:  Andain [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Warby wrote:
Allan Jeans said that any good side always contained some good honest soldiers that were always in there doing a job for the team.

The problem is that we aren't a good side. We're a rebuilding side and Bannister or Wiggins playing would just take games away from kids who desperately need the experience.
Author:  Warby [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
We also need experienced players around all of the kids we're nurturing.
Author:  Andain [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Warby wrote:
We also need experienced players around all of the kids we're nurturing.

So you agree then, keep them in the twos.
Author:  Warby [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
If they deserve a spot in the ones....and team structure warrants one or both of them against a certain opponent on the day......they'll get a game!......simple as that.

If they were extraneous to our needs; they would've been delisted or traded.
Author:  Andain [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Warby wrote:
If they deserve a spot in the ones....and team structure warrants one or both of them against a certain opponent on the day......they'll get a game!......simple as that.

If they were extraneous to our needs; they would've been delisted or traded.

Both had an existing contract for 2008 and since we had plenty of others to delist first, while Bannister and Wiggins are such good trainers and clubmen, they got a stay of execusion for a year.

One of the reasons why we're the least experienced team in the league, other than our obvious youth, is that Pagan tended to play older fringe players in the past ahead of young kids, giving the experience the kids who so badly needed to these players only to have those older players delisted at years end because it ecame obvious to all that they just we're AFL standard players. if we do the same this year with Bannister and Wiggins nothing will have changed at our club as we'll be doing the same stupid thing again and again despite knowing what the result will be.

If you think that Wiggins and Bannister are long term players at the club you either overrated them heavily or you don't think our future is particularly bright.
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