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| Was It Worth It? http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19629 |
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| Author: | robblues17 [ Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Was It Worth It? |
Hi, long time reader , first time poster. So hi all. Looking forward to a revived season with passion this year. It had me thinking , Was it worth it ? All the deception the club did in the dark days? Does the rescue package ( Pratt & Co) that is now in place make up for what happened? I mean what players did we loose , which players did not want to come here because of it? What sponsors did not want to allign with our Brand? How can we measure the damage done now that it is several years on ? If the Pro's are the Pratt & Co and what is now in place & the Con's are the loss of players , staff , sponsors etc . Would love to see a list of both , thought it might make interesting reading , look forward to your thoughts |
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| Author: | kingkerna [ Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:00 am ] |
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time will tell, if we get a flag within 3 -4 years and play finals in 09' then it will mean 7 years out of the finals - consider that in the darkest times our club has faced and we have come out of it very well. The Saints missed out on the finals for over 20 years (I think) and the tigers have made the finals about 3 times in 25+ years. Thats the beauty of this, at the end of it we should be able to say "so what, the worst time in our history is over, we are already back" |
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| Author: | robblues17 [ Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:07 am ] |
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Sure , I agree & believe we will come out ahead. I guess I was wondering if anyone had any knowledge of what we lost, players etc that wasnt common knowledge |
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| Author: | Kaptain Kouta [ Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:56 pm ] |
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To posit the question "Was it worth it?" makes some sort of assumption that the last 6 years was a deliberate strategy undertaken by the club in order to achieve long-term success. We know for a fact that it was far from that. Will the pain be worthwhile for the club in the long run? Probably, because it got some people off the field to accept that the "old" way of doing things simply doesn't work any more, and that the club would have to change its attitude towards things on and off-field to be competitive in the harsh world of AFL. |
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| Author: | robblues17 [ Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:30 pm ] |
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Sorry guys did not mean to imply the club had a deliberate strategy for this , but I was more interested in what it cost us in the past compared to what is happening now. If the past hadnt happened would Pratt by around in the same vein as he is now? Its a tough one to weigh up |
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| Author: | SurreyBlue [ Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:51 pm ] |
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Cost us our dignity, self respect and history. These few years have tarnished our brand for ever and the next premiership(s) will never feel the same again. Not my feelings alone but you can all start shooting now. What's a new year without controversy on TC anyhow. 
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| Author: | bluehammer [ Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:01 pm ] |
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When we win our next flag it will be worth it. Until then, it's just another step along the path. |
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| Author: | Big Kahuna Boot [ Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:15 pm ] |
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SurreyBlue wrote: Cost us our dignity, self respect and history. These few years have tarnished our brand for ever and the next premiership(s) will never feel the same again. Not my feelings alone but you can all start shooting now. What's a new year without controversy on TC anyhow.
..yeah i agree, before our dark days we had never stooped as low as other clubs.. ..ladder-wise and consistent performance wise.. |
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| Author: | SparkyBlue [ Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:09 pm ] |
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robblues17 wrote: If the past hadnt happened would Pratt by around in the same vein as he is now? Its a tough one to weigh up
Pratt has always been a very big contributor for Carlton (mainly financially), thought the good times and the bad. If you are asking if rorting the system was worth it for the past 5 or so years - I look at it this way... Carlton won the 95 GF with players that were involved in the salary rorting, the last triumph of the old, old administration - but to win the spoon, even once it wasn't worth it. The years of heckles and, more gratingly - reading hundreds of articles written by shithouse journos kicking a team that was once so powerful nobody could hardly write a bad word about them... the media world has been waiting for over a hundred years for Carlton to fall - so had the Pies, Dons, and other opposition supporters... even Richmond fans (many of who wouldn't understand the conceot of success) were digging the heels in!!! 
But one of the major changes that has brought the team to life was the understanding that every team, no matter who - has to drop eventually... then use the draft system that was created for these teams, and build their way back to the top again. Too many years we recycled, topped-up, drafted a few late pick gems and won another GF. No other team (Essendon* comes close) has done this better than us. But these days that won't cut it, rehashing the team isn't even working for the Dons anymore - so, in light of Black Friday and the sanctions and penalties - Carlton has gotten with the program, done the time in purgatory and is now well on the way to being a force again. Pratt can either be credited with saving the club, accellerating the process - or both. I guess the real question in relation to the above is, where would Carlton be if we HADN'T been caught and penalised??? |
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| Author: | Car17on [ Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:31 pm ] |
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bluehammer wrote: When we win our next flag it will be worth it. I have only ever known the bad times .. I have stories and videos from the good times .. OK so the spoons blighted the ledgerbook forever - we can't give them back .. but #17 will be bliss, especially if we get it before the Scum! Then the pain of the last six years will be a thing of the past - gone, yes, but never to be forgotten, unfortunately
Until then, it's just another step along the path. |
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| Author: | Wild Blue Yonder [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:47 am ] |
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Taking away our draft picks has made the expectations placed on the players we do draft unreasonable, vis a vis Andrew Walker. |
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| Author: | camel [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:13 am ] |
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Yes, it was worth it. For the simple fact it brought the way the club thinks about all aspects of football into the 21st century. That we did not really use the draft properly (maybe once) until well into Pagan's tenure is a telling indictment on the club's previous thinking. A shake up was needed. I just wish it wasn't quite so dramatic. |
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| Author: | Woostieboy [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:57 am ] |
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I don't know anything about the behind the scenes workings of the club but I think what the question was more to do with was what did we miss out on such as Brendan Goddard, Daniel Wells and getting players such as Luke Power to the club. What big sponsorships did we miss out because our name wasn't as strong as it use to be. It's just good to see we're now on the right track......onward and upward. |
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| Author: | timetodeliver2004 [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:04 am ] |
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Well things that we lost in terms of players were Goddard and Wells (neither have set the world on fire) and lost quite a few senior players due to problems with the coach (Ratten may have retired early, Campo left, Manton, Hickmott, McKay) and obviously we lost a fair bit of money during that period which has contributed to the debt we face now. Things that we have gained during that period: - Pratt as President who managed to bring in the best CEO in Greg Swann, a great recruit in Steven Icke, Ratts as coach, Riley as an assistant coach - Resulted in the largest profit ever recorded by a Victorian club in 2007, which has gone some way to eradicating the debt and to have a major upgrade of the gym and administrative facilities - The recruitment of Judd, Murphy, Gibbs and Kruezer who will be the future of the Carlton Football Club - Slowly we are earning back the respect and intimidation factor that we deserve. This has been one of the most remarkably quick comebacks both on and off the field. We have been down and we have all felt the pain of that, but thats what will make success all the sweeter. In fact, I think one of the main things that has come out of all the pain is how much it has banded the Carlton community together. There is a real sense of family around the place at the moment, you can see it in the playing group and you can feel it with the supporters. We are all heading in the one direction. In conclusion, I'd say that the pain will be worth it in the long run... |
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| Author: | SparkyBlue [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:27 am ] |
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timetodeliver2004 wrote: In fact, I think one of the main things that has come out of all the pain is how much it has banded the Carlton community together. There is a real sense of family around the place at the moment, you can see it in the playing group and you can feel it with the supporters. We are all heading in the one direction.
You know when I think about it, this is probably more important than any man - be it a player or a president. I'd rather 30,000+ members by the club's side than any one player or president. |
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| Author: | DownUnderChick [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:36 pm ] |
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SparkyBlue wrote: timetodeliver2004 wrote: In fact, I think one of the main things that has come out of all the pain is how much it has banded the Carlton community together. There is a real sense of family around the place at the moment, you can see it in the playing group and you can feel it with the supporters. We are all heading in the one direction. You know when I think about it, this is probably more important than any man - be it a player or a president. I'd rather 30,000+ members by the club's side than any one player or president. QFT |
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| Author: | billc3 [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
DownUnderChick wrote: SparkyBlue wrote: timetodeliver2004 wrote: In fact, I think one of the main things that has come out of all the pain is how much it has banded the Carlton community together. There is a real sense of family around the place at the moment, you can see it in the playing group and you can feel it with the supporters. We are all heading in the one direction. You know when I think about it, this is probably more important than any man - be it a player or a president. I'd rather 30,000+ members by the club's side than any one player or president. QFT sorta, except we had 33k after the fightback campaign and it didn't really help us much until we've got the leadership to drive it all in one direction. |
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| Author: | SparkyBlue [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:33 pm ] |
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billc3 wrote: DownUnderChick wrote: SparkyBlue wrote: timetodeliver2004 wrote: In fact, I think one of the main things that has come out of all the pain is how much it has banded the Carlton community together. There is a real sense of family around the place at the moment, you can see it in the playing group and you can feel it with the supporters. We are all heading in the one direction. You know when I think about it, this is probably more important than any man - be it a player or a president. I'd rather 30,000+ members by the club's side than any one player or president. QFT sorta, except we had 33k after the fightback campaign and it didn't really help us much until we've got the leadership to drive it all in one direction. Do you think that we would have hung around long enough without major AFL intervention until the arrival of Pratt, Judd and major sponsors with a membership number like the Kangaroos (or the Bulldogs circa 10 years ago?) 30k+ members has helped us to merely survive during our bleakest period, rather than end up doing a Fitzroy. |
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| Author: | Sasilce [ Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
No more games at Princes Park............ Breaking our Wooden Spoon record............. Certainly not worth it yet. Not all doom and gloom though. We now seem to have a professional ethos around the club. |
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| Author: | buggermeblue [ Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:18 pm ] |
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Yes it's been tough to swallow and the brand has been tarnished/undermined in a way it's never suffered before. BUT Anyone who suggests that, given the pain we've been through, number 17 isn't going to be the SWEETEST victory of all doesn't have a clue. 
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