Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:34 pm

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1 post ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:02 am 
Offline
Robert Walls

Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:32 pm
Posts: 3021
Happell writes in crikey.com :

http://www.crikey.com.au/Media-Arts-and ... fault.html

Interesting read, but terribly selective in my view.


I don't doubt Kouta was a bit opportunistic with his comments, but with the same token he does have a right to write a book and make as much money as possible for his family (failing one breaking the law, no man should be told to not do that), and Pagan's unparalleled tough approach was always going to be a major focus of the book (from what I have heard from people I know who are connected to the club, 99% of the players hate Pagan - that is pretty extreme you've got to admit). If Kouta is guilty of anything, it is his timing. But I'd argue Pagan has been far, far more gulity of far, far greater sins over the past 5 years, and it's funny how Denis accepts his sacking (which by implication means he accepts that he didn't do much of a job), and yet is happy to be paid out in full for the remainder of 2007 + 2008. I don't think Kouta is the only little piggy in all of this.

Charles Happell wonders why Carrazzo etc haven't come out and said they hate Pagan too. That's a pretty naive thing to say, I mean the whole footy world was shocked Kouta did it - it is pretty un-Australian to come public on this sort of thing, so it stands to reason most other players (esp those still at Carlton) will not be as liberal with their opinions as Kouta has been. Plus, why would current day players want to ruin their rep, when their careers are not yet over and they could yet be coached by a new coach one day? And in any event, I would argue most of these players' development has little to do with Pagan, and more to do with the assistant coaches and merely getting games under their belts (Pagan after all has gone on record saying players naturally get better when they get 50-70 games experience). And I heard Andrew Walker's father said that upon being asked by his father why his form had picked up in 2007, Andrew said "No real reason, just got more game time". So it's not like Denis has waved his magic wand and turned Andrew Walker into a good player.

It's worth remembering that at no point has Kouta actually said that all of Carlton's woes are Denis' fault. That perspective is merely spin generated by the football media and Pagan defenders alike. All Kouta has said (suspicious timing aside) is that Denis is the nastiest coach going around and his gameplan was not suitable to the players he had at his disposal (and I think most fans in the know accept these two things to be true).

It's funny to hear Denis say that the long-direct game plan was used by three of this year's top 4 sides. This is true, however the anti-Paganites have always argued that Denis' chief strategic fault is his game plan is unsuitable for his players. While he did change the game plan for a brief period in 2006 to that of a short-kicking/possession game style, don't you think it's strange that this game plan was unsuccessful under Pagan but largely successful under Ratten (Carlton might have lost all their games under Ratten this year, but everyone knows the club tanked and the team actually played very, very competitive football during this period).

Another way to tell this story is to suggest that Wayne Brittain, prior to his final year when the Blues won the spoon after having suffered the worst run of injuries in the club's career, had actually got the Blues to the finals in his penultimate year at Carlton, and got very disciplined efforts from the club's seasoned veterans (Bradley, the quintessential outside player actually played as a tagger in his final year - now that's what I call respecting one's coach). Furthermore, the following players from the largely successful Brittain era - Kouta, Camporeale, Allan, Beaumont, among others via private complaints - have all expressed their deep resentment for the way Denis Pagan came and changed everything at Carlton and treated the players like cattle. Again I stress that the team was actually a Finals team, it's just that in Brittain's final year nearly half the list was injured, just like Melbourne in 2007.

Pagan and Carlton we're right for each other in the 60s, and they're not right for each other now. But at least Pagan got about $3-4mill out of it, whereas Carlton got nothing (although we did get a raft of early picks, so I suppose we should thank Denis for that).

BTW have no problem with criticism being directed at Kernahan, but the line "no-one else at Carlton has copped a scratch" seems a bit odd given the Smorgan board was sacked, and Barry Mitchell has been shown the door, as has prior CEO Michael Malouf.

Pagan inherited an ageing but still very capable list, but he rubbed them up the wrong way (great man management skills there Denis, I mean did you have to be a complete tyrant?) and then decided to clean the place out. Then he made the AFL's youngest list play a game plan that is totally not suited to them (great strategic thinking there Denis, I mean unlike in the nineties teams actually flood back these days, and young legs can't deal with the hard running that a long/direct game plan requires). The proof is in the pudding - Brett Ratten got very, very competitive performances from the same list Pagan had at his disposal, only the difference was Ratten knows how the modern game works and doesn't treat his players with complete and utter contempt.

Happell's article is terribly selective in it's content, and seems to be based on hearsay rather than an actual (personal) deep understanding of how Carlton have performed over the past 5-7 years. I know about a dozen people who are connected to the club, and all of them have said the same thing, that the way Pagan has treated his players has been absolutely atrocious (hell even Tony Liberatore, Carlton's recent assistant coach hated Denis, from what I was told). Times have changed both in terms of game plans and also the way you treat people. Remember, it is now 15 years since Pagan took over the young North side and built a Premiership team. That's a long time ago. It's almost a decade since his last Premiership.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1 post ] 

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 58 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group