TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Johnson/ Bentick

Pagan's being serious about going all out to win it, Camporeale will come back in, maybe at Davies' expense. Bentick didn't have much game time on the weekend and we need his ball winning ability.

We might see a tall get dropped as well (maybe Norman) because the Dogs aren't a tall side.

I can't see a role for Davies in midfield, he doesn't win the ball enough and his disposal is only so so.

Campo will obviously come back to captain the side and someone has to go. Can't see the others making way - Bentick might be one, but Johnson is more of a straight replacement for him.

The key to Pagan's sides is their flexibility. You can't just play Davies as a small forward - he doesn't have the right attributes to do that. He doesn't have blinding speed, he doesn't have particularly good goal sense. He maybe stronger overhead than Eddie Betts - but small forwards don't kick that many goals from marks, it's usually off crumbs.

So that said, Davies needs to be able to play as a decent midfielder. And he can't do that as yet. He doesn't win enough ball, his disposal is ok, but not fantastic, and he's innately defensive when it comes to midfield play. He tackles well, but doesn't win enough clearances to be a versatile player.

IMO he's neither here nor there - with Camporeale we know he can play as a bona fide midfielder. And we know that Campo can play as a HFF with success. Or you can play Chambers as a HFF and Campo on the wing.

Besides - Nathan Brown, he's a medium forward and he averages 20-odd possessions a game. Who said that HFF can't win the ball?

CJF, Bentick has more skill than Plunkett - at least he can kick 50m, spot up a player and tackle better. He's much much better than Plunkett.

Author:	gerry atric [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:23 am ]
Post subject:	Johnson/ Bentick
Just thought it might be good to spend a bit of time on those guys in the navy blue jumpers. I think I'm suffering from website discussion fatigue. Interesting that Johnson and bentick did a 'swap' on the weekend, and johnson apparently blitzed for the Bullants. While we want to win the Wiz Cup probably should be moving a few guys through to prepare for the season proper. I suppose it's likely that Bentick and Johnson will rarely play in the same side. Might be worth giving a couple of the 'fringe' players a run, but with Campo to come back not sure how we can make room (times have changed). Only omissions I can see are Bentick for Johnson? maybe Davies for Campo, maybe Bryan for Setanta or ADL if fit

Author:	CarltonClem [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:
Pagan's being serious about going all out to win it, Camporeale will come back in, maybe at Davies' expense. Bentick didn't have much game time on the weekend and we need his ball winning ability. We might see a tall get dropped as well (maybe Norman) because the Dogs aren't a tall side.

Author:	molsey [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:
AB was only on the ground to stop Brock McLean, who incidentally is his best mate. When McLean started getting too much of the ball, Bentick was given a tagging role,. so his job wasnt to get the ball himself. AB is only in his second year, so no issues with him, but I think in these games we're playing our senior ball winners and will continue to do so. AB has heaps of time to make his name. Wouldn't be surprised if AB went but no slight on his name at all.

Author:	Elwood Blues1 [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:14 pm ]
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I think Johnson may get a game...Bentick is a good colt but didnt get into the game last week and didnt look like he had put on much beef over the break. Scotty West and Mitch Hahn wont be easy for a player like AB to handle so i reckon Denis may go for Johnson and maybe use a player like Corey McGrath out of the middle a bit more maybe in a tagging role...Prenda may have been alright on Hahn but i think he will get the job running with Darcy after French does the ruckwork...

Author:	King Leonidas [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:
CarltonClem wrote: Pagan's being serious about going all out to win it, Camporeale will come back in, maybe at Davies' expense. Bentick didn't have much game time on the weekend and we need his ball winning ability. We might see a tall get dropped as well (maybe Norman) because the Dogs aren't a tall side. Why "probably at Davies expense"??

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Author:	CarltonClem [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:
I can't see a role for Davies in midfield, he doesn't win the ball enough and his disposal is only so so. Campo will obviously come back to captain the side and someone has to go. Can't see the others making way - Bentick might be one, but Johnson is more of a straight replacement for him.

Author:	CarltonClem [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:
What don't you understand about the plain English I've used?

Author:	King Leonidas [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:
if one plays a medium sized forward, how do you expect them to win the ball ? if you take Davies out of the forward line, who are you going to replace him with as a medium forward ?

Author:	CarltonClem [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:
The key to Pagan's sides is their flexibility. You can't just play Davies as a small forward - he doesn't have the right attributes to do that. He doesn't have blinding speed, he doesn't have particularly good goal sense. He maybe stronger overhead than Eddie Betts - but small forwards don't kick that many goals from marks, it's usually off crumbs. So that said, Davies needs to be able to play as a decent midfielder. And he can't do that as yet. He doesn't win enough ball, his disposal is ok, but not fantastic, and he's innately defensive when it comes to midfield play. He tackles well, but doesn't win enough clearances to be a versatile player. IMO he's neither here nor there - with Camporeale we know he can play as a bona fide midfielder. And we know that Campo can play as a HFF with success. Or you can play Chambers as a HFF and Campo on the wing. Besides - Nathan Brown, he's a medium forward and he averages 20-odd possessions a game. Who said that HFF can't win the ball?

Author:	kernafides [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Johnson
Not sure why but I always seem to be jumping to Johnson's defence. I think he should be in our side as he is one of our only true "clearance" players. I think it showed last week when both he and Kouta were absent. I like Bentick but I agree that they are more a direct swap for each other. Might be unpopular but I think Walker could do with a confidence run in the twos.

Author:	kernafides [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Johnson
Not sure why but I always seem to be jumping to Johnson's defence. I think he should be in our side as he is one of our only true "clearance" players. I think it showed last week when both he and Kouta were absent. I like Bentick but I agree that they are more a direct swap for each other. Might be unpopular but I think Walker could do with a confidence run in the twos.

Author:	kernafides [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Johnson
Not sure why but I always seem to be jumping to Johnson's defence. I think he should be in our side as he is one of our only true "clearance" players. I think it showed last week when both he and Kouta were absent. I like Bentick but I agree that they are more a direct swap for each other. Might be unpopular but I think Walker could do with a confidence run in the twos.

Author:	King Leonidas [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:
CarltonClem wrote: The key to Pagan's sides is their flexibility. You can't just play Davies as a small forward - he doesn't have the right attributes to do that. He doesn't have blinding speed, he doesn't have particularly good goal sense. He maybe stronger overhead than Eddie Betts - but small forwards don't kick that many goals from marks, it's usually off crumbs. So that said, Davies needs to be able to play as a decent midfielder. And he can't do that as yet. He doesn't win enough ball, his disposal is ok, but not fantastic, and he's innately defensive when it comes to midfield play. He tackles well, but doesn't win enough clearances to be a versatile player. IMO he's neither here nor there - with Camporeale we know he can play as a bona fide midfielder. And we know that Campo can play as a HFF with success. Or you can play Chambers as a HFF and Campo on the wing. Besides - Nathan Brown, he's a medium forward and he averages 20-odd possessions a game. Who said that HFF can't win the ball? Man, I wonder! Fair enough, your opinion. I agree, players must be flexible. Davies can play on the wing and on the flanks, and he did on the weekend. Watch the game again.

Author:	CarltonClem [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:
It depends on how damaging he was though KL, he didn't do a lot that was damaging. And his possessions count wasn't exactly flattering! But more importantly, to the naked eye, he wasn't damaging enough.

Author:	CrazyJoeFevola [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:
To be honest i cant see Johnno or AB staying with us for more than this year. i like johno but he really lacks pace and penetration with his kicking. Unless he can remodel his game into more of a handabller i think he's in trouble. But he can find the footy and thats gotta count for something. Unfortnately for AB, i can see similarities with Jimmy Plunkett. Good bloke, Lacks pace, smallish, not skilful, tries hard but lacks the offensive ability without really being a gun defensively. unless he can become a tagger ala Franga he will struggle. Plus we already have Bannister, Sporn and Wiggo who can run with.

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Author:	budzy [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:56 pm ]
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I think we all know what we're gunna get with Johnson....nothing brilliant , but serviceable. At this stage of the season I'd like to see what those we haven't seen yet have got to offer this season. Simmo and Carlos should get a run imo. Definately bring Campo back and keep AB in for more senior game experience.

Author:	gerry atric [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:47 pm ]
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I agree with CarltonClem re Davies. I want him too succeed and I think he could be used in a run with role but he didn't do a lot on Sunday and maybe a run in the twos wouldn't do him any harm. He just needs to take the next step to get beyond just being handy. He seems to be a bit lackadaisical at times. I agree Johnson is a known quantity. Certainly good at getting hands on the ball in and under but doesn't always have the strength to get the ball out to advantage, often seems to be able to force another ball up rather than get it clear. But a great worker and at this stage I think he is ahead of Bentick. Also I like to see good performances with the Bullants rewarded.

Author:	CarltonClem [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:
CJF, Bentick has more skill than Plunkett - at least he can kick 50m, spot up a player and tackle better. He's much much better than Plunkett.

Author:	CrazyJoeFevola [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:
CarltonClem wrote: CJF, Bentick has more skill than Plunkett - at least he can kick 50m, spot up a player and tackle better. He's much much better than Plunkett. I agree with you CC about being better but i see him in the same boat. Yes, AB is physically a bit stronger but his kicking does lack depth. Id like to see him succeed but i really the the odds are against him unless he can do a run-with role at this stage in his career.