Season over- what say you now?

nightcrawler · **Joined:** Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:48 am **Posts:** 2891

blueman wrote:

I cant understand why people cant see that overcoming the problem of being thrashed is more of a problem that overcoming the problem of losing matches by 3 goals. Im no coach, but I know which problem I would rather solve, the 3 goal one...

Now that is about the most sensible thing that has been said in this entire thread. Pagan's stated goal for this season was to win roughly the same number of games (give or take a couple), but to not have an average losing margin of 50+ and get trashed by 100 points every fourth week. I would say our season is well on track. If we win agains the Tigers next week we will be 3-1-3 and in touch with the eight.

And can people please stop winging about the draw. Our last eight games of the season are all in Melbourne. If we're in touch with the 8 in the second half of the season that's going to be invaluable.

phoenix johnson · **Posted:** Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:51 pm

Can't say I've ever had a problem with the draw.
Not a very hard draw.
We just didn't take advantage of it in the first few rounds.

BlueMark · **Posted:** Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:01 pm

The Tyrant wrote:

Blue Mark wrote:

To be completly honest Tyrant, I sometimes wonder about that

Without meaning to be dismissive, BM, but no you don't. You know we're all on the same page.

We're all headed for Mecca, but we all take different routes.

Well when people start calling for us to play for Priority Picks ie tanking to finish lower, then I have every right to suspect they want us to lose. Very hard to get a priority pick via winning games.

And I do not want to be dismissive either but you are being a tad defensive on this are you not?

If someone can have the right to post a thread on crap our players and team is, then Nub has the right to post a thread calling some of the hypercritical posters to account, Does he not?

Blues2005 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:50 pm **Posts:** 2123

The thing is that to make the finals this year it'll probably only take 11 wins. That's only winning half your games. Who knows maybe even 10.5 wins, such is the evenness of things. The season can never be over after 4 or 5 rounds where the biggest losing margin has been 20 points. If we'd been losing by 8-10 goals then I'd worry but even then there is still a lot of footy to go.

People get disappointed when we lose and that's natural. I certainly get very disappointed usually myself but sometimes we all lose sight of the bigger picture. We think we need to win every game and that's not the case. We're not a top 4 side and nobody expects us to play like one or win 15 or 16 games. We're in the middle raft of the competition with plenty of other sides and we've as much chance of winning 10 or 11 games and playing finals I reckon as most of them.

We forget that we don't need to win 15 games but probably only 11 considering too that we've got the draw. We've been frustrating in terms of inconsistency and we make mistakes but the problem is we all strive for a perfection that just isn't attainable at this stage. The sides around us also with a view of sneaking into the eight are in the same boat as us also riddled with certain problems otherwise they would be better off too. What I'm saying is that we have to be realistic and realise that the teams around us are at basically the same level that we're at and we have problems but by default so do these other sides. We're going to win and lose games and so are all the others.

How anyone can even think of writing the season off in such an even looking season is unbelievable. There are still 16 games left for heaven's sake. A lot is going to happen in those games. We're going to win some and we're going to lose some just live everyone else. There's no point pretending that we should be winning every week because it's unrealistic and you'll just end up disappointed. So next time we lose think about the fact that we're really not that bad a side and that we're in virtually the exact same position as the majority of the sides in the competition in terms of where we're at at the moment.

blueman · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:28 pm **Posts:** 2220

Weve all been in admiration of our efforts to minimise the adverse effects of our dfart penalties.

Well isnt this an ongoing process?

Would it not be reasonable to assume that the efforts to snare players that were undertaken in 2003 and 2004 will still be going on in 2005 with equal intensity?

If anything, because we have advanced somewhat on the footy clock, we will be more keenly aware of the particular needs we have now than we were in the previous 2 years.

We already have quite a few promising young players in the Bullants who will replace our few older ones in the next couple of years, but of course we will need more ready mades and good draft picks in the next couple of years.

So the statement that "The season is over" is really a bit stupid. Even if we have a very bad year with say 6 wins, the season might be over as far as finals are concerned, but it is really just in a stage of development that is yet to bear fruit.

We were never about premierships this year, at best a finals appearance or two.

Of course I want us to win and get back to being a top 4 team, but if that doesnt happen this year, then we shouldnt go into wrist slashing / scaprgoat hunting mode.

Irrespective of wins/losses and ladder position in 2005, we were always going to be very much a work in progress.

People need to keep a sense of perspective before they shoot off on tangents that might be considered rather hysterical.

BlueMark · **Posted:** Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:41 pm

Blues2005 wrote:

The thing is that to make the finals this year it'll probably only take 11 wins. That's only winning half your games. Who knows maybe even 10.5 wins, such is the evenness of things. The season can never be over after 4 or 5 rounds where the biggest losing margin has been 20 points. If we'd been losing by 8-10 goals then I'd worry but even then there is still a lot of footy to go.

People get disappointed when we lose and that's natural. I certainly get very disappointed usually myself but sometimes we all lose sight of the bigger picture. We think we need to win every game and that's not the case. We're not a top 4 side and nobody expects us to play like one or win 15 or 16 games. We're in the middle raft of the competition with plenty of other sides and we've as much chance of winning 10 or 11 games and playing finals I reckon as most of them.

We forget that we don't need to win 15 games but probably only 11 considering too that we've got the draw. We've been frustrating in terms of inconsistency and we make mistakes but the problem is we all strive for a perfection that just isn't attainable at this stage. The sides around us also with a view of sneaking into the eight are in the same boat as us also riddled with certain problems otherwise they would be better off too. What I'm saying is that we have to be realistic and realise that the teams around us are at basically the same level that we're at and we have problems but by default so do these other sides. We're going to win and lose games and so are all the others.

How anyone can even think of writing the season off in such an even looking season is unbelievable. There are still 16 games left for heaven's sake. A lot is going to happen in those games. We're going to win some and we're going to lose some just live everyone else. There's no point pretending that we should be winning every week because it's unrealistic and you'll just end up disappointed. So next time we lose think about the fact that we're really not that bad a side and that we're in virtually the exact same position as the majority of the sides in the competition in terms of where we're at at the moment.

Damn good post.
A couple of years ago we were way behind the pack, now we have caught up, in a year or two given some more smart recruiting, some more development of the younger players and a bit of luck we will be ahead of the pack.

While one does not expect to win every game we should play as though we want and expect to. Do that and we will soon be winning a lot more than we loose.

The Tyrant · **Posted:** Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:49 pm

therubbernub wrote:

Quote:

well, why do you think people do that?

I will tell you why, because they do not have the patience.

Cue Dannyboy

Quote:

or they are passionate and being passionate their emotions sometimes run away and they see tunnels, turns, dead ends and all manner of creep crawlies just cos they are passionate and care.

There you go, mate. Don't have a dig at your colleagues in here, one of whom wasn't me, after a bloody win. We're meant to pull together after victories, mate. You're just bloody gloating. Win/lose/draw, we all respond to situations in different ways.

No one who said "priority picks" would swap 12 wins for pick 1. Its an outburst of desperation. Its a over-reacted "but, on the bright side".

As I've said a million times, people support their club in different ways. Some ride the rollercoaster, some are pessimists, while some are ultra positive. This thread diminishes the right of a certain demographic of fans to express themselves. Do you think, if we (touch wood) lose every other game and finish last I'll come back and start a thread called:

"HA HA!!!! YOU WERE WRONG RUBBER NUB!! SUCKED IN!!! WE ARE SHIT!!!!"???????????

Get real mate. You live in a community here. We're here to debate topics. Make threads about how you don't believe we are a bottom 4 team, give us some constructive reasons as to why we're playing below the standard you see us having, but don't try and lord your over optimism over ones.

Were you hoping that people would come in and say "yes, Rubber nub, you were right. We were wrong, you are a superior Carlton fan to us. We no longer deserve to support this club because we got over anxious, disappointed, and expected the worse"

THE THING I HATE MOST IS PEOPLE WHO IMPLY THEY HAVE MORE OF A RIGHT TO LOVE THEIR CLUB THAN ANYONE ELSE. EXPECTING TO WIN EVERYWEEK DOESN'T MAKE YOU A BETTER SUPPORTER. FOLLOW IN YOUR OWN WAY AND RESPECT OTHER PEOPLE.

The Tyrant · **Posted:** Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:53 pm

BlueMark wrote:

If someone can have the right to post a thread on crap our players and team is, then Nub has the right to post a thread calling some of the hypercritical posters to account, Does he not?

We objectively discuss the relative virtues of players who wear the jumper we love.

Its not a competition to find out who is the BEST Carlton supporter.

If Rubber Nub's post wasn't a "haha! I was right! you were wrong!" thread, I don't know what is.

dannyboy · **Posted:** Sat Apr 30, 2005 9:12 pm

haha I was right!

fevolaaaa · **Posted:** Sat Apr 30, 2005 9:49 pm

The Tyrant wrote:

Its not a competition to find out who is the BEST Carlton supporter.
.

I know a person in another thread who would fail dismally

Synbad · **Posted:** Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:37 pm

Stick it up your arses DOOMSDAYERS we beat the MIGHTY HAWKS by a goal!!!!
Of course we had to beat the HAwks.. if we lost that game.. and we were pretty close to losing it.. we would have been 1.5 out of 6. Thats a 25% winning record...which is about on par for a priority pick.
We havent played the first few sides yet either. But from the crappy ones we have just about played them all bar Richmond and the Dogs..

Lets not get chookfeeding happy till the break mid season when we have a better idea where were at. At the moment we would have to call the season so far disappointing and underwhelming.
Listen,,, were playing shit footy.
If the side can develop over the next few weejs into a top 8 outfit byu the end of the year...but be a genuyine finals side thats a step forward. However if we fimish 10th/ 11th again were treading water.
What we need is an injection of class and real talent.
Battlers will only take you so far...

AGRO · **Posted:** Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:17 pm

Okay guys I have to go out now to light some fire crackers. :wink:

Synbad · **Posted:** Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:32 pm

AGRO wrote:

Okay guys I have to go out now to light some fire crackers. :wink:

Ill be there..... :wink:

The Vet · **Posted:** Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:38 pm

where's the Sao?

therubbernub · **Joined:** Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:03 am **Posts:** 118

Quote:

If Rubber Nub's post wasn't a "haha! I was right! you were wrong!" thread, I don't know what is.

Hey this is getting ridiculous. I was not out there last week saying we are on track for finals action- why because i dont know- too early to tell.Still dont know. I did not go out on a limb like some did and make the (too)early call that our season was over- others did. I simply listened to what they said thought it was ridiculous that they were saying it and waited until we beat the hawks to have a comment.
Is our season over? resoundingly no! I can say this now and probably for another 5 weeks or more (unless we lose the next 5 in a row) and then I will concede that the season is over. Are we going to make the 8- dont know yet. Possibly.
In the meantime I will enjoy every win, get pissed off with every loss, but more importantly , I will not be writing this team off until I have to

Blue4ever · **Posted:** Sun May 01, 2005 1:25 am

Synbad wrote:

Stick it up your arses DOOMSDAYERS we beat the MIGHTY HAWKS by a goal!!!!
Of course we had to beat the HAwks.. if we lost that game.. and we were pretty close to losing it.. we would have been 1.5 out of 6. Thats a 25% winning record...which is about on par for a priority pick.
We havent played the first few sides yet either. But from the crappy ones we have just about played them all bar Richmond and the Dogs..

Lets not get chookfeeding happy till the break mid season when we have a better idea where were at. At the moment we would have to call the season so far disappointing and underwhelming.
Listen,,, were playing shit footy.
If the side can develop over the next few weejs into a top 8 outfit byu the end of the year...but be a genuyine finals side thats a step forward. However if we fimish 10th/ 11th again were treading water.
What we need is an injection of class and real talent.
Battlers will only take you so far...

Spot on Synbad, no doubt this side gives alomost 100% all the time however we are really lacking youth and class. Look at the new players the Hawks had on display (first/second year players)

We are paying the price for the draft penalties.

Pagan demads 100% and the team will almost give you 100% but as Synbad said we need some class and real talent. Being the youngest team doesn't necessarily mean we have the best talent coming through. Our better players seem to be players that have been in the system for 3/4 years. Other teams are getting alot more from there 1 to 2 year players.

Very happy that we are more competitive but we still have a fair way to go. We have just returned to the draft and I dare say we will need a few more drafts before we are the real deal.

Deano Supremo · **Posted:** Sun May 01, 2005 8:26 am

The Tyrant wrote:

BlueMark wrote:

If someone can have the right to post a thread on crap our players and team is, then Nub has the right to post a thread calling some of the hypercritical posters to account, Does he not?

We objectively discuss the relative virtues of players who wear the jumper we love.

Its not a competition to find out who is the BEST Carlton supporter.

If Rubber Nub's post wasn't a "haha! I was right! you were wrong!" thread, I don't know what is.

I reckon the frustration that TRN is displaying is from some of the over emotional, reactionary posts we see here after a loss. I don't reckon TRN is in any way trying to say he is a better supporter than anyone else, I reckon he's just trying to say "see, it isn't all doom and gloom".
I know myself, seeing posts after round three that said our season was over frustrated the hell out of me.

And besides Tyrant, didn't you label Ballistsic Blues a troll after he posted this opinion? Surely that is you trying to say you're more of a supporter than he is, right?

TruBlueBrad · **Posted:** Sun May 01, 2005 8:56 am

Blue4ever wrote:

Spot on Synbad, no doubt this side gives alomost 100% all the time however we are really lacking youth and class. Look at the new players the Hawks had on display (first/second year players)

We're lacking youth??? :shock:

I'd have thought that was one thing we had in abundance. We're definitely lacking class at the moment, and all the reasons you gave for that are correct, the draft penalties and poor drafting/trading in the late 90's.

BlueMark wrote:

Blues2005 wrote:
The thing is that to make the finals this year it'll probably only take 11 wins. That's only winning half your games. Who knows maybe even 10.5 wins, such is the evenness of things. The season can never be over after 4 or 5 rounds where the biggest losing margin has been 20 points. If we'd been losing by 8-10 goals then I'd worry but even then there is still a lot of footy to go.

People get disappointed when we lose and that's natural. I certainly get very disappointed usually myself but sometimes we all lose sight of the bigger picture. We think we need to win every game and that's not the case. We're not a top 4 side and nobody expects us to play like one or win 15 or 16 games. We're in the middle raft of the competition with plenty of other sides and we've as much chance of winning 10 or 11 games and playing finals I reckon as most of them.

We forget that we don't need to win 15 games but probably only 11 considering too that we've got the draw. We've been frustrating in terms of inconsistency and we make mistakes but the problem is we all strive for a perfection that just isn't attainable at this stage. The sides around us also with a view of sneaking into the eight are in the same boat as us also riddled with certain problems otherwise they would be better off too. What I'm saying is that we have to be realistic and realise that the teams around us are at basically the same level that we're at and we have problems but by default so do these other sides. We're going to win and lose games and so are all the others.

How anyone can even think of writing the season off in such an even looking season is unbelievable. There are still 16 games left for heaven's sake. A lot is going to happen in those games. We're going to win some and we're going to lose some just live everyone else. There's no point pretending that we should be winning every week because it's unrealistic and you'll just end up disappointed. So next time we lose think about the fact that we're really not that bad a side and that we're in virtually the exact same position as the majority of the sides in the competition in terms of where we're at at the moment.

Damn good post.

Thats actually a sensational post. Sums up exactly where we are and what we should be expecting.

Blues2005 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:50 pm **Posts:** 2123

We might lack class and talent but there's nothing we can do about it now so why harp on about it? We're where we are and not higher because we don't have the class of some other sides in the league. Every Carlton supporter knows we're not a great side at this stage, we're a middle of the road side which is capable at its best of beating most sides but at its worst is capable of losing to anyone. But then so are the sides around us. I reckon we're no less likely to make the eight than some of the sides around us. If you were offered an 8th place finish now would you take it? I'd bite your hand off!

The Tyrant · **Posted:** Sun May 01, 2005 3:09 pm

Deano Supremo wrote:

And besides Tyrant, didn't you label Ballistsic Blues a troll after he posted this opinion? Surely that is you trying to say you're more of a supporter than he is, right?

Deano, you keep confusing my argument. I'm not saying "don't dispute anyone's position on a topic relating to the game". Of course if someone says something you don't agree with, you let them know about it. But, what I hate is people having a go at the way people support, suggesting that they're not supporting the club in the right way.

He didn't come in and say "see, its foolish to say our season is over because of reasons a,b and c....". His came in and said "ha ha you were wrong".

And for flowers sake, we beat the team who finished last by a handful of points, and played really poor footy for 3 quarters. Collingwood supporters start bragging after winning ugly against a bottom team.

Now Nub is saying that we didn't play very well, and he's still nervous about our side, and that there IS a time and place for naysaying.. and that's if we lose the next 5... which he's not writing off as a possibility.

Fair dinkum Nub. You should take your bike to France, because you're a shoe-in for the Tour de France if you face the other way. You're backpeddling faster than Akermanis after a faux pas.

Just a pointless, childish thread. How has your insight added anything more meaningful than the "priority pick" posts you hate? You're just balancing them out on the positive side of unnecessary divisive posts.

Season over- what say you now?

Who is online