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Congratulations Brett Ratten
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Author:  Cyclonus [ Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Congratulations Brett Ratten
He's making the tough call to play the kids and give them experience, rather than score some wins for his own record.

It's a brave move, but sadly, he's going to cop some heat either way.

Today the commentators maligned the amount of young players in our team, almost to the point of suggesting we were always going to be uncompetitive, and that it was an automatic loss.

Newspaper journos will probably jump on the issue during the week. If they don't, they will when he puts a similar team on the park against Melbourne next week.

It would have been far easier for him to just put our best side out, scrape some meaningless wins for his own record, and cost us picks we clearly need.

Winning and costing the club the picks would earn him the derision of journos, just as putting out a young side probably will.

Ratten is in a lose-lose situation here, and he's taking the harder option for the good of the club, and most of all, for the good of the fans.

It's just a shame that not everyone can appreciate what he's doing, though they will in a few years, I'm sure.
Author:  verbs [ Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
One needs to look at the statistical makeup of premiership teams of the past 20 years in terms of games played to realise we are more than "a few" years away from winning a flag.

With a bit of luck we may get there in 2015. Not sure if Ratten will still be around.
Author:  Toranasaurus [ Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Picking the young players was the most practical decision I reckon. Ratts needs to know where they're at come draft time, now he's got the job, the pressures off a bit.

We already know where Hoops and Skinny are at and winning with our most experienced side will do us no favours.

Goodonya Ratts for making the hard decision. Not a pretty game but I'll get my membership next season regardless.
Author:  marciblue [ Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
verbs wrote:
With a bit of luck we may get there in 2015. Not sure if Ratten will still be around.


That is being ridiculously pessimistic. I think the turnaround is not that far away at all. Even for a flag.

I think we will escape some of that media focus on the back of the drug saga and that will take up a lot of media attention and discussion.

Rats is doing the right thing and I really didn't expect much more from our team especially given that the year is shot and the roos are steaming towards September. I took some positives out of todays game and realise the focus is for next year and beyond.
Author:  blueman [ Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Flags are won with a team effort, but in some cases, the team that wins the cup doesnt fit the normal idea of a modern football team - this is seen after the event as innovation...

Sometimes, you can have a secret weapon that gives you an advantage that others do not have - and this can create success for you, but not others - who dont have this special advantage. But timing is everything.

In our case, the timing to reap the benefits from having a special advantage will be just right...

Now, playing young footballers is the way forward. It would be stupid to do otherwise. Call it tanking, but it is actually what we must do as a club at this time.

These players need to learn to swim - and you dont learn to swim by watching others in the pool.

We need to understand that Brett Ratten isnt the only coaching influence at Carlton now.

Brett's openness to others and desire to take on board the suggestions of others is actually something that is pivotal to our future success.

Denis was not able to communicate like this because of the person that he is.

But he was also not able to communicate like this because he wasnt brought up as a Carlton person like Brett Ratten is.

Communication and connectedness (and a well timed dose of good fortune) are the things that will win us our 17th flag and also the things that make Carlton what it is..

Yes, we have a whole new coaching support team. We know this.

But what we might not understand is that, we will also have the collective knowledge of all past Carlton champions and premiership coaches as well.

This knowledge and influence will be used to get into the heads of our very young players. Other clubs cannot do this.

So this is the one thing that will swing the game our way.

The reason why Carlton comes good early, is because we have this resource at our disposal - but other clubs dont.

It really is the hidden advantage that Carlton has.

Yes it is true that teams like Essendon* and Brisbane also have this at their disposal, but they arent positioned in the same way as Carlton - which means that they will not be able to use this resource like Carlton will.

We also will have a playing group that is able to learn from this reservoir of knowledge and apply it on he field. 2 no1 draft picks and a bunch of players with potential is a good start, but 3 number 1 draft picks and other new talent on top of this is better.

The progress will be slow at first but then quicken.

Brett will teach our young group what they have to do to improve - and they will.

But that special extra coaching group will be there to guide them when it is needed

Most mug punters will not understand about Carltons hidden advantage at all.

But when our progress quickens and we reach the finals - the doubters will be forced to confront the reality that Carlton will triumph.
Author:  verbs [ Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
marciblue wrote:
verbs wrote:
With a bit of luck we may get there in 2015. Not sure if Ratten will still be around.


That is being ridiculously pessimistic. I think the turnaround is not that far away at all. Even for a flag.

I think we will escape some of that media focus on the back of the drug saga and that will take up a lot of media attention and discussion.

Rats is doing the right thing and I really didn't expect much more from our team especially given that the year is shot and the roos are steaming towards September. I took some positives out of todays game and realise the focus is for next year and beyond.


:lol: So you are predicting a flag when? 2009, 2010?

Statistically it is quite simple to tally up the experience column of premiership sides. Even the Bombers of 93 had more games under their belts than we will have in five years time (2012).

2015 is very close to the mark. But IN NO WAY a certainty.
Author:  blueman [ Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Brett Ratten will have success early in his career.
Author:  marciblue [ Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
verbs wrote:
marciblue wrote:
verbs wrote:
With a bit of luck we may get there in 2015. Not sure if Ratten will still be around.


That is being ridiculously pessimistic. I think the turnaround is not that far away at all. Even for a flag.

I think we will escape some of that media focus on the back of the drug saga and that will take up a lot of media attention and discussion.

Rats is doing the right thing and I really didn't expect much more from our team especially given that the year is shot and the roos are steaming towards September. I took some positives out of todays game and realise the focus is for next year and beyond.


:lol: So you are predicting a flag when? 2009, 2010?

Statistically it is quite simple to tally up the experience column of premiership sides. Even the Bombers of 93 had more games under their belts than we will have in five years time (2012).

2015 is very close to the mark. But IN NO WAY a certainty.


Why not! I know its easy for me to put up examples to back me up but from our position now, 2-3 years should be about the mark. Brisbane, '98 spooners, '01 premiers - filth, '99 spoon, '02 GF (well it was never gonna be a flag :lol: ). Conversely, there are the more drawn out cases like port and maybe this year the cats.

But saying 2015 is Terry Wallace talk and a defeatist outlook. Projections like this are beyond any sort of decent time frame
Author:  verbs [ Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
marciblue wrote:
verbs wrote:
marciblue wrote:
verbs wrote:
With a bit of luck we may get there in 2015. Not sure if Ratten will still be around.


That is being ridiculously pessimistic. I think the turnaround is not that far away at all. Even for a flag.

I think we will escape some of that media focus on the back of the drug saga and that will take up a lot of media attention and discussion.

Rats is doing the right thing and I really didn't expect much more from our team especially given that the year is shot and the roos are steaming towards September. I took some positives out of todays game and realise the focus is for next year and beyond.


:lol: So you are predicting a flag when? 2009, 2010?

Statistically it is quite simple to tally up the experience column of premiership sides. Even the Bombers of 93 had more games under their belts than we will have in five years time (2012).

2015 is very close to the mark. But IN NO WAY a certainty.


Why not! I know its easy for me to put up examples to back me up but from our position now, 2-3 years should be about the mark. Brisbane, '98 spooners, '01 premiers - filth, '99 spoon, '02 GF (well it was never gonna be a flag :lol: ). Conversely, there are the more drawn out cases like port and maybe this year the cats.

But saying 2015 is Terry Wallace talk and a defeatist outlook. Projections like this are beyond any sort of decent time frame


Brisbane were topped up with Fitzroy players. Things didn't gel immediately and they were to many of us a shock rabble in 98. In my circles at the end of 97 we were expecting big big things of Brisbane.

So we now have 6 top 5 picks which is like us getting the cream of another Club...the end of 2007 = 1998 for Brisbane which would make us in line with Brisbane's Premiership run in 2010 (2001). Um...I don't see that happening because Brisbane picked up much more experienced players than our 6 top 5 picks plus Russell at 9.

So 2010 is a bit ambitious...and a couple of years on 2012-13...20015 isn't looking all that silly, is it?

Port were in like two or three Prelims before they won. Okay so, we make the prelim in 2009 (I'm trying not to laugh) and then 2010, 2011...still looking at 2012 before our magical premiership.
Author:  blueman [ Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Brett Ratten said that finals in 2009 is an objective.
Author:  Cyclonus [ Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  ...
I'll have money on us for the top 8 in 2008.

If Fevola stays and Stevens' neck is ok, there's no reason we can't sneak in.

Stevens, Simpson, Scotland, Murphy, Jackson, Gibbs, Bentick, Carrazzo, Walker, Russell, Houlihan, Grigg, Cotchin/Palmer. It's a pretty solid group of runners who can move through midfield.

We have genuine freaks up forward in Fev and Waite, Fisher is very reliable, Betts adds good pressure and can head into the midfield.
Kennedy will be a key, particularly if Lance is moved on. If Kennedy is made to feel like he belongs and gains some confidence, as I'm sure he will under Raten with Whitnall gone, I think we'll have a truly scary forwardline on our hands.

The backline will be our achilles as always, but Bower/Jamison has really given me some hope in this department. Setanta is only going to get better, and Thornton will be back and reliable. We only need to break even in this department, I'm sure these guys can do it.

Unfortunately Ackland is also a key for us. Everyone knows he can play, it's just a matter of extracting the effort from him. Should get good support from youthful backups in Aisake, Hampson and Kreuzer. Wouldn't be surprised if one or two of them leapfrogged him in fact.

It's on in 2008 as far as I'm concerned.
Author:  thedominator [ Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ...
Cyclonus wrote:
Unfortunately Ackland is also a key for us. Everyone knows he can play, it's just a matter of extracting the effort from him.


Speak for yourself mate. You can't be serious... :shock:
Author:  Warby [ Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ackland did some good heavy work yesterday, unnoticed by just about everyone on this site.

OK....he's not a Lade or Cox for tapouts but....he is improving as an around the ground link up player.....he may turn out to be a good defender perhaps?
Author:  FlipMode2 [ Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Warby wrote:
OK....he's not a Lade or Cox for tapouts but....he is improving as an around the ground link up player.....he may turn out to be a good defender perhaps?


For the U/12s perhaps
Author:  Warby [ Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
FLiPMoDE2 wrote:
Warby wrote:
OK....he's not a Lade or Cox for tapouts but....he is improving as an around the ground link up player.....he may turn out to be a good defender perhaps?


For the U/12s perhaps


I watched a tape of yesterday's game this morning; and his good work wasn't as apparent as it was to us who were at the game.
Author:  FlipMode2 [ Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Warby wrote:
I watched a tape of yesterday's game this morning; and his good work wasn't as apparent as it was to us who were at the game.


How many good games has this guy got? not alot..hes lucky to get 1 highlight a game. The only reason he is still getting games is because we have no other options really..if we get Kruezer and decide to keep Cloke there will be no room for him in the team, I dont really see him becoming a defender but weirder things have happened.
Author:  Warby [ Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
FLiPMoDE2 wrote:
Warby wrote:
I watched a tape of yesterday's game this morning; and his good work wasn't as apparent as it was to us who were at the game.


How many good games has this guy got? not alot..hes lucky to get 1 highlight a game. The only reason he is still getting games is because we have no other options really..if we get Kruezer and decide to keep Cloke there will be no room for him in the team, I dont really see him becoming a defender but weirder things have happened.


In 1963-64 a guy called Gordon Collis was a very ordinary CHF for Carlton as there wasn't a better option at the time.

Tried at CHB in '64.....he was unbeatable; and romped in the Brownlow by 8 votes.....a completely different player in his new position.

Brett Ratten blossomed when he went from the backpocket to the midfield.....these things happen.
Author:  Mickstar [ Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Blueman
blueman wrote:
Brett Ratten will have success early in his career.


Hope its not one of them halfpie preseason success's.They are fools gold mate.
Author:  thedominator [ Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Warby wrote:
Ackland did some good heavy work yesterday, unnoticed by just about everyone on this site.

OK....he's not a Lade or Cox for tapouts but....he is improving as an around the ground link up player.....he may turn out to be a good defender perhaps?


FFS when he's at full pace he runs in slow motion.
Author:  Headplant [ Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
thedominator wrote:
Warby wrote:
Ackland did some good heavy work yesterday, unnoticed by just about everyone on this site.

OK....he's not a Lade or Cox for tapouts but....he is improving as an around the ground link up player.....he may turn out to be a good defender perhaps?


FFS when he's at full pace he runs in slow motion.


Malcolm Blight hit the nail on the head ... he can make a determined effort and take a good strong mark ... so why doesn't he approach more contests like that?
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