The Ides of Denis ....

barass · **Posted:** Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:37 am

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/t ... 75917.html

Denis Pagan wrote:

"But if you look at the utopia of a perfect set-up, you'd want to win the clearances at the stop-play situations because that's where the game starts and that's where it can be finished," he said.
"And if you have a ruckman who can give you that advantage, why wouldn't you jump at it?"

blueboysean · **Posted:** Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:26 am

Must we always come back to Denis? What's the point?

He tried, he failed. Done. The club has been terrible, not just him. Let's get over it.

79Vintage · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:59 am **Posts:** 1971

As Denis himself said, if you keep looking in the rear vision mirror you will only crash.

tommi · **Posted:** Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:39 am

Yeahhhh.........

no need to tell Denis how good he is..........cos if he's
any good.........he'll tell you himself.........!

kindest regards tommi

or is that........he's no good......till he tells somebody
else how good they are.........if theeeee........ummmmm..............
if he's any GOOD that is......ummmm.......somebody else
is better........you know..........cos they're no good in the FIRST place.......
sooooooo..............!

hmmmm.................i'll get back to yas..............!

blu944 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:58 pm

^^^^

Lurker Blue · **Posted:** Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:35 pm

Spoons wrote:

if you have a ruckman who can give you that advantage, why wouldn't you jump at it?

And he did such a good job of getting quality ruckmen to the club didn't he? :garthp:

blueboysean · **Posted:** Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:16 pm

Lurker Blue wrote:

Spoons wrote:

if you have a ruckman who can give you that advantage, why wouldn't you jump at it?

And he did such a good job of getting quality ruckmen to the club didn't he? :garthp:

You seem to think it was all him. Not everything was Denis's fault. Let's look at the last five years as when the CLUB was crap, not just Pagan. We had problems before he came, and we have survived with a bright future. It's just taken a bit longer and it wasn't and enjoyable process.

HELLAS BLUE · **Posted:** Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:37 pm

blueboysean wrote:

Lurker Blue wrote:

Spoons wrote:

if you have a ruckman who can give you that advantage, why wouldn't you jump at it?

And he did such a good job of getting quality ruckmen to the club didn't he? :garthp:

You seem to think it was all him. Not everything was Denis's fault. Let's look at the last five years as when the CLUB was crap, not just Pagan. We had problems before he came, and we have survived with a bright future. It's just taken a bit longer and it wasn't and enjoyable process.

Pagan has made it much much worse than it ever would have been IMHO.

budzy · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:17 am **Posts:** 8128

For all the Pagan fans, he's now employed by 3AW for special comments and is on now.

Lurker Blue · **Posted:** Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:16 pm

blueboysean wrote:

Lurker Blue wrote:

Spoons wrote:

if you have a ruckman who can give you that advantage, why wouldn't you jump at it?

And he did such a good job of getting quality ruckmen to the club didn't he? :garthp:

You seem to think it was all him. Not everything was Denis's fault. Let's look at the last five years as when the CLUB was crap, not just Pagan. We had problems before he came, and we have survived with a bright future. It's just taken a bit longer and it wasn't and enjoyable process.

Mind reader are you?

Where have I ever said that our current situation is all down to Pagan?

Please don't try to put words in to my mouth, or read more in to my comment than there is.

I am well aware that there have been many factors involved in getting us to where we are today.

My comment was in direct response to Pagan's quote, and our lack of a quality ruckman.

If Pagan is of the opinion that "if you have a ruckman who can give you that advantage, why wouldn't you jump at it?"

Why didn't he do more to get a quality ruckman to the club?

blueboysean · **Posted:** Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:59 pm

Lurker Blue wrote:

blueboysean wrote:

Lurker Blue wrote:

Spoons wrote:

if you have a ruckman who can give you that advantage, why wouldn't you jump at it?

And he did such a good job of getting quality ruckmen to the club didn't he? :garthp:

You seem to think it was all him. Not everything was Denis's fault. Let's look at the last five years as when the CLUB was crap, not just Pagan. We had problems before he came, and we have survived with a bright future. It's just taken a bit longer and it wasn't and enjoyable process.

Mind reader are you?

Where have I ever said that our current situation is all down to Pagan?

Please don't try to put words in to my mouth, or read more in to my comment than there is.

I am well aware that there have been many factors involved in getting us to where we are today.

My comment was in direct response to Pagan's quote, and our lack of a quality ruckman.

If Pagan is of the opinion that "if you have a ruckman who can give you that advantage, why wouldn't you jump at it?"

Why didn't he do more to get a quality ruckman to the club?

Sorry, my comment was a bit misdirected/unclear.

What I meant was: Do you think it is purely Pagan's fault that we have not had a good ruckman since Matthew Allan? Because we didn't have a good ruckman before he came, and there haven't been many on offer. Which quality ruckman have been on offer since he took over? I made a list of all the ruckman we've got through draft/trade since Allan, if anyone can remember. We certainly tried, but there hasn't been much there.

The rest of my comment was basically directed at the general attitude that associates all recruiting and footballing decisions to him, like it was all his fault.

No offence meant.

BIBI01 · **Joined:** Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:43 pm **Posts:** 322

Lurker Blue wrote:

blueboysean wrote:

Lurker Blue wrote:

Spoons wrote:

if you have a ruckman who can give you that advantage, why wouldn't you jump at it?

And he did such a good job of getting quality ruckmen to the club didn't he? :garthp:

You seem to think it was all him. Not everything was Denis's fault. Let's look at the last five years as when the CLUB was crap, not just Pagan. We had problems before he came, and we have survived with a bright future. It's just taken a bit longer and it wasn't and enjoyable process.

Mind reader are you?

Where have I ever said that our current situation is all down to Pagan?

Please don't try to put words in to my mouth, or read more in to my comment than there is.

I am well aware that there have been many factors involved in getting us to where we are today.

My comment was in direct response to Pagan's quote, and our lack of a quality ruckman.

If Pagan is of the opinion that "if you have a ruckman who can give you that advantage, why wouldn't you jump at it?"

Why didn't he do more to get a quality ruckman to the club?

teams don't just give away quality players in particular quality ruckmen.

how many quality ruckmen have been allowed to leave by their club in the last few years?
of those how many have gone to a struggling team?

should a ruckman have been drafted with an earlier pick?
hindsight says yes
in saying that we had holes to fill all over the place, not just our ruck division

french, angwin, deluca, bryan, mott, batson, aisake, mclaren, hampson, ackland, cloke all players that were tried, lack of quality in that list, not really a lack of effort on behalf of the club.

Lurker Blue · **Posted:** Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:42 am

I do not think that Pagan is solely responsible for our current ruckman (or lack thereof) situation.

Anyone who does think that is seriously deluded.

Everyone at the club involved in recruiting has to put their hand up and admit that they were/are part of a team (recruiting team) that failed to address this adequately.

I think that some of our attempts to recruit ruckmen have been risky punts that didnâ€™t turn out; some have been poor assessment of young talent; whilst others have been laughable.

Most of these I can forgive. People make mistakes, judgements can be wrong; fair enough, we all do it, no oneâ€™s perfect.

I don't however think that enough emphasis was placed on finding a quality ruckman. Although I think that we have since made an improved attempt in this regard.

My main gripe is that Pagan comes out and makes this kind of statement, when his actions have never suggested that he felt this way.

If others involved with recruiting at the club came out with a similar statement, I'd be just as dissatisfied with them.

Chitty's Finger · **Posted:** Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:49 am

I thought this thread was called 'The Ideas of Denis'.

Short thread still.

Rhys26 · **Joined:** Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:12 am **Posts:** 1730

Pay-out for Pagan is around the $400k mark

camel · **Posted:** Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:07 am

That's not too bad, all things considered. He would have been on much more than that per annum I assume???

The Ides of Denis ....

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