Watching the game on Saturday, I can not see that we have the Key postion potential to win a premiership. In five years time who will be our premiership fullback, centerhalf back, centerhalf forward and fullforward

Full Back- Thornton not premiership material. Setanta yes but will be rising 30

Centerhalf back- No one- Austin only genuine chance. Hartlett and kennedy not defenders

Center half Forward- Waite, Kennedy(no guarantee)

Full Forward- Fevola will be retired or on his last legs

We need to recruit all these postions as these players take years to develop otherwise we will be a Western Bulldogs type outfit, with a premiership on ball division and no KPP's. We are unlikely to have enough picks in this draft to cover all bases. What are your thoughts?

I think we need to make sure we get two picks in the top five draft selections this year. We might need to do what is known as "tanking" to ensure that happens.

To be honest I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it before.

_________________
Click here to follow TalkingCarlton on twitter
TalkingCarlton Posting Rules

That is why I think we have to trade the Fev

i think we do have the KPP to take us there. we have plenty of young talls that need to fill out, more muscle. we need a strong midfield cause if we win the midfield we win the game.

_________________
i am what i am. somebody has to be.

I think that a turn around in our performances is closer than most people think. I don’t subscribe to this theory that we are 5-10-1000 years away from a flag and subsequently trade anyone who is not wearing a nappy!

The key to any teams success is the midfield and this is where we have been most deficient in the last 5-6 years. KPP’s are also important but we have been slaughtered in recent years because we cant win the overall contest through the middle. We cant get our hands on the ball often enough or with enough precision to hurt sides. We are slowly addressing this weakness with recent drafts and the emergence of some long shots (Carrazzo, Jackson). This is where the resurgence will start.

Trading Fev, Stevo is insane. Did we cut Sticks in 1991 when we bottomed out because he was 28, or SOS in 97/98 when times were leaner and Stephen was 30. It is a flawed argument with no semblance of credibility or intelligence. I will seriously throw up seeing Fev thrive at another club being fed by a half decent midfield combo. It would physically make me sick! He must stay and help in the improvement of our team for years to come because from next year the curve will start pointing upwards for our team. The slope of that curve may be better than we think

The issue of a lack of KPP’s, especially defensive ones, falls square at the feet of our recruiters. Until last year with Austin, we did not select a clear defensive KPP in recent years. Bower may have been AA CHB at under 18 level but he appears to be a HBF at best and won’t be a CHB. Hartlett was probably recruited with a defensive role in mind; however, he was and is a natural forward with talent and doesn’t appear to be making the transition. Kennedy is a clear CHF. Edwards a HFF. Of the current young stock for defenders, Jamo is undersized as well as Flint and he has his work cut out to earn promotion as it currently stands.

T-bird should really only play a Dean type role and this still leaves the two most important defensive KP spots unfilled. Setanta could do the FB role but his versatility will always appeal to coaches who will use him in various roles. Saddo, as we saw again on Saturday, is not a KP defender and will continue to get mauled on the bigger forwards. All in all, this is an area that still urgently needs to be addressed.

But how trading a Fev or Stevo will benefit us in the short-medium-long term baffles me and besides this meaningless argument on basing these decisions on subjective assessments of when we may contest a flag which is ludicrous there is no logical reason for it to occur

_________________
C'mon Blueboys!

I think the club needs to decide whether they think they can win a flag while Fevola is still around, or whether our next flag will come after Fevola has hung up the boots. If they believe a flag is possible in the next 3-5 years, then expect them to retain Fevola. But if they think a flag is a bit further away, or Fev only has 3 years left in him, then they should probably consider trading Fevola now.

Personally, I think the Kangas have shown this year that anything is possible, if you have a good midfield core, decent rucks and an abundance of spirit. They mightn't win the flag this year, but with the same token I would argue that in 3 years our list will be stronger than theirs is today. And so based on this rationale I think it is possible that we could be a serious threat in 3-5 years.

I think you're underestimating our key position players. Setanta should develop into a very good tall, strong defender - a genuine 'key defender', the sort we have been crying out for since Silvagni retired. He's the one who will take the opposition's power forward each week, moving forward. Thornton then takes the second forward, and one of Bower or Jamieson or Austin will need to one day be good enough to be the third tall down back (and what's to say Bannister won't surprise us?).

Up forward there is Fevola, a proven match winner, and also Waite, who while a tad unreliabe nonetheless possesses the X Factor. Alongside these two you also have Fisher, who is a good third tall, and then after that there's Kennedy and maybe a resting Kruezer, possibly. All looking ok up forward if you ask me, and I don't think we're far off being in a position where Fev and Waite can both bag 4+ goals in the same match for us.

In the ruck you have Kruezer (possibly), Aisake and Hampson. Oh and maybe Jacobs too. I think there's plenty to work with there. Kruezer will be the no.1 pick, and Aisake is about as impressive a specimen as you'll find, and I think will make the grade. And then there's Hampson who was rated highly last year by most clubs.

I think the key to all of this is the two Irish, and whether we can get our hands on Kruezer. Setanta needs to be our monkey down back, and this will only happen if we sort out our rucks - and Aisake and Kruezer shape as being central to the ruck set-up. Of course it'd be nice to have another gun key defender, but I think most teams get by with the one super defender (although Brisbane had Michael AND Leppitsch).

At the end of the day, if Setanta can be the big monkey down back, and if Kruezer and Aisake/Hampson deliver in the ruck, then really all that is missing is a premier midfield, and we'd hope that between Murphy, Gibbs, Simpson, Carrazzo, Walker and Morton/Cotchin that the nucleas of a good midfield is there. Then there's Grigg, Russell, Betts, Jackson, Bentick, Blackwell etc etc plus future draftees. Oh and btw, I think it's folly writing Setanta off because he will be pushing 30.

Look at it this way, the two Irish need to be viewed as being the equivalent of two first rounders in my opinion. (Very) tall, strong, athletic, quick, agile, tough, proven sportsmen. Both are coming along very nicely. So in 3 years we might be the envy of the AFL if we have Setanta, Aisake, and Kruezer (plus Waite, Fisher, Kennedy, Fevola, Thornton etc). Look at it that way.

FB - Jamison (24)
CHB - Setanta (28/29)
CHF - Waite/Hartlett/Rookie (28/29, 23, ??)
FF - Fev (31)

But I think we should be pushing sooner than then.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

i agree with MarciBlue our list is not that bad, has a shit load of potential!
everyone who still thinks we are 5 years away from being seriose contendors are kidding them selves, things could change within 12 months, my prediction is 18 months though.
If we get some luck with injuries Lance gets himself right and the players (like the previous 2 weeks) continue to play for the coach we realy arnt that far away!

Even the boys On The Couch on Monday were saying they reckon Essendon*'s list is the worst.

_________________
Click here to follow TalkingCarlton on twitter
TalkingCarlton Posting Rules

We've already got the tallest list in the league, we're hoping to pick up a 199 cm ruckman with our first draft pick, and you want us to draft even more KPPs in the next draft?

What's so wrong with midfielders?

Why is it everytime that Finals are mentioned people automatically say "Trade Fev.

Anyone who think we're only gonna make Finals in the next 3-5 years if we trade Fev now is deluded.

_________________
Lawrence Lawrence, The man who knows all the rackets and all the racketeers!

Ahem... Kreuzer.

KPP, maybe not ready made... but who knows??

A back 6 containing any of Jamison,Austin,Bower,Thornton,Anderson,Waite,Hartlett,O`Hailpin has plenty of potential IMO.Plenty of others to drop back and help such as Walker and Scotland.
Why not give Kennedy a go at CHB.He is mobile,good at groung level and can take a grab.Could be good for his confidence to be running straight ahead.

Setanta: Versatile, but can certainly be a mobile gorilla. Defender/Forward.
Thornton: Third tall down back/rebounding. Defender.
Hartlett: Hope we keep him. Certainly has potential as a kp defender, even though looks comfortable up forward as well. Defender/Forward.
Jamison: Great closing speed, defensive awareness. Certainly like what I've seen, and 193 cm is certainly tall enough. Defender.
Austin: Certainly potential. Defender/ any potential as forward?
Waite: Anything
Kennedy: Great work ethic + highly rated.
Bower: Recruited as a CHB, possibly second tall/rebounder.
Fisher: Third tall forward - super talented.
Fevola: ...nuff said...

Here are 10 players capable of being KPPs. Obviously they are not all certainties to make it, and Fisher and Bower shouldn't be expected to play first tall, but they are versatile, talented and mainly athletic. We should be able to develop a relatively good spine, complemented by:

Walker
Russell
Murphy
Gibbs
Stevens
Carrazzo
Simpson
Houlihan
Blackwell (maybe)
Grigg
Bentick (maybe)
Betts
Anderson
Jackson

I know we've been over all of this before, but it makes me smile. Anyway, we have enough KPP stocks IMO.

I think you're asking too much too soon from our youngsters. OHailpin 199cm Austin 193cm Jamison 193cm Waite 194cm Kennedy 195cm Hartlett 196cm Cloke 196cm is a fair list of potential key position players. Add in Fevola Whitnall and Thornton and IMO it isn't a lack of key position players but their development that we need to fast track.

If Austin and Kennedy step up next year and start commanding a permanent spot in the team then the whole complexion of the side changes. Still need a good strong back pocket IMO but defensively we may improve dramatically especially if our onball group can drop back to help out.

We have the tallest list in the AFL, we NEED TO GET RID OF THE 196CM HACKS.........ACKLAND & McCLAREN.....and replace them with the best midfielders.
Hampson,Aisake,Setanta,Jacobs plus maybe Kruzeur....how many 200cm players do we need.

_________________
I see you watching me watching you.

Look, it's not the height of your list on paper that matters.

Yes, we need a few extra midfielders but I look at most other clubs and I notice just how we don't match up in terms of strength and flexibility as far as our key position players go. We are full of tall flankers and underdone/fill-in ruckmen, that is what accounts for the height (which is not, in it's self, a bad thing) of our list. This midfield obsession is starting to get on my nerves. We only have ourselves to blame for the disjointed list we currently possess. We don't want to make the same mistakes in trying to correct them. My lesson for the day is 'be careful what you wish for'.

_________________
Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

I can see similarities with our defence now to the 90`to 93` period where we introduced young players such as Christou,Mc Kay,Ratten,Sexton and Hogg.(I know SOS and Deany make a huge difference)We really struggled for a time there but that group grew together to become one of the all time great backlines.
I think we are well served for KPP`s up forward and the midfield will only get better and better.

I think that Jackson and Grigg added to Murphy Gibbs Stevens Simpson Russell Bentick Blackwell plus a first round pick starts to give our midfield some real depth and class.

If we get the 2 players we want with our first 2 picks it's possible the club may decide to use our third pick to try and add some more defensive depth with another young long term option.

I am happy that the club has started to try and cover most bases with their draft picks in recent times selecting some midifielders, some key position players some defenders and some rucks so this draft could give us a bit of everything once again.