Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Sun Jun 29, 2025 10:36 pm

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 87 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:01 am 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:28 am
Posts: 1073
http://realfooty.com.au/news/news/voss-key-to-coach-race/2007/07/27/1185339260315.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2

Carlton & Essendon* competing for Voss
Quote:
Yet just like their navy blue rivals, the true decision-makers at Essendon* - while briefly pausing to honour their enduring 27-year symbol - will all the while be looking forward.

It now seems beyond dispute that the object of their attention is Michael Voss, the recently retired Brisbane premiership captain who thwarted Sheedy's prospects of a fifth coaching premiership.

Voss flew into Melbourne yesterday and held talks with Carlton trio Stephen Kernahan, Greg Swann and Stephen Icke.

The previous day he was contacted by Essen don and is understood to have held informal talks via the telephone with that club's chief executive, Peter Jackson.

There is no doubt that Pagan's sacking hastened Sheedy's departure at Essendon*. It is true that the coach's future had not been on the agenda in the lead- up to Monday night's board meeting but once Carlton sacked Pagan on Monday morning it became - for both clubs - all about Michael Voss.


Differing processes at Carlton and Essendon*
Quote:
Pratt has entrusted his chief executive Swann, football directors Kernahan and Adrian Gleeson and football operations boss Stephen Icke to chose Carlton's new coach, while the process put in place by the Bombers is not dissimilar to the one adopted by St Kilda last September after it sacked Grant Thomas.


Voss preferred by Carlton, but no link to Frawley
Quote:
There has been much disinformation spread in recent days, however, regarding the Blues. While it is true that Voss is their preferred candidate, the suggestion that he has approached Danny Frawley to join him at the club is nonsensical and was denied yesterday by both parties.


Ratten's chances
Quote:
At Carlton, the wildcard remains Brett Ratten. Club president Dick Pratt believes that four wins from the next six games would be enough for Ratten to get the job, and you would imagine that message has been communicated to the players, who will know what they have to do to deliver the job to the former captain.


Laidley not in the frame
Quote:
His new manager, Ricky Nixon, continues to say Laidley has been approached by other clubs but the Kangaroos do not believe Carlton or Essendon* would go for him and appear determined, though, to wait until the end of the season before re-committing to Laidley.


Pagan
Quote:
While the Blues had previously been less than troubled by the prospect of losing every game between now and round 22, and the prized priority pick in the national draft that that would have delivered, they could not tolerate the thumpings the players were suffering under Pagan.

Not that Pagan was entirely to blame. The performances of the club's senior playing group have been dreadful, the Blues are a club bereft of on-field leadership, and perhaps after almost five years Pagan must take some responsibility for that.

Still, he was working for most of his time at the club with a substandard administration, an under-resourced football department and the legacy of the John Elliott administration's salary cap cheating.

The manner in which he was treated last year was a shameful chapter in the club's history, and Pagan's performance after he was sacked on Monday was gracious in the extreme.

Even so, he must be smarting at the damage his move to Carlton has done to his reputation. Former players who conspired to sack him last season have repeatedly described Pagan's modus operandi as selfish and his coaching methods outdated and harsh. They say he was too tough on the club's younger players — an accusation vehemently contested by Pagan supporters. He may yet get another chance at Melbourne or Fremantle.


Mitchell
Quote:
It is also untrue to suggest that Barry Mitchell will be retained by the club. The assistant coach's decision to remain this season hurt Carlton and Mitchell's own reputation and it would be staggering now if his legacy was retained.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:26 am 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:52 am
Posts: 1588
Location: My social club stand, Princes Park
Meanwhile over at the Herald Sun...

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ ... 88,00.html

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/ ... 62,00.html

_________________

************************************************************
NOW YOU'RE JUST SOME CLUB THAT I USED TO KNOW.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:54 am 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 21075
Location: Missing Kouta
600,000 p.a for an inexperienced coach!

Where do we sign?

Voss can do it
Quote:
A Carlton backer of Voss suggested Hawthorn's Alastair Clarkson as an example of an untried coach who could make a fist of things in the AFL. Clarkson has more in common with Craig than Voss. Before landing the Hawthorn gig, he was the fitness coach with Melbourne, an assistant coach at St Kilda, a senior coach at Werribee in the VFL and Central Districts in the SANFL and an assistant to Mark Williams at Port Adelaide. He is also a qualified phys-ed teacher.

Is that you Sticks? :(

Can we please appoint someone who has coaching experience? :roll:
Quote:
Even an outstanding charge of unlawful assault against Voss arising from a pub brawl in Melbourne last September has failed to dissuade Carlton. To the contrary, it has actually helped convince some senior figures within the club they have the right man.

"Everyone points to the Tim Watson example but Watson is a different character," a Carlton source said. "He is a nice bloke. You can't be a nice bloke and coach. There is an edge to Voss. All the good coaches - Matthews, Sheedy, Denis Pagan, Malthouse - had and edge to them. They all crossed the line at some stage."

There is a belief at Carlton that experience in coaching is desirable but can carry its own baggage. Voss, as a player recently retired from the game, is more familiar with the use of statistical information and contemporary training and conditioning techniques than Pagan or Sheedy. He has no management experience, but nor does he adhere to the old-club principles that Carlton has been slow to jettison


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:29 am 
Offline
Wayne Johnston
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:34 am
Posts: 8888
Location: 8888
Tell me why you need to be an assistant to coach an AFL team?

Is coaching not about getting the best out of your players?

Motivatng your players? Providing leadership?

Making sure the game plan and message you send to your players is adhered too?

Isn't a major part of the coaches role to market the club? Raise the hopes of supporters and sponsors?

Are assistants only use to give feedback on positional sections on the ground? and help with training drills and player development?

Do assistants have the experience in dealing with media or sponsors? If so is it much different to the Captain of a Premiership Club?

Can't anyone watch video tape and analyse, develop reports for individual players on certain roles or matchups the next week? Is it not about how you prepare?

If guys like Chris Bond, Guy McKenna so worthy of a coaching gig, why were they second and third best to Ross Lyon?

The media is the one constant that piles the pressures onto coaches, otherwise is it really as complex a role that people are making it out to be?

_________________
Mjonc signing off at 8888


Last edited by mjonc on Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:30 am 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:52 am
Posts: 1588
Location: My social club stand, Princes Park
The reported $600,000 seems outrageous, and the whole concept makes me nervous, but I will say that this bit made me a little more comfortable with the idea...

Quote:
"My view is he has a number of the boxes ticked," McConnell said. "He has the work ethic, he has the game knowledge, he has the capacity to teach the game. His ability to report and analyse was exceptional. In general, I would be reluctant to say anybody could do it. But if anyone can, he is somebody who can. I was in the system for 15 years and I have never met anybody who has the skill set that he has at this stage."

_________________

************************************************************
NOW YOU'RE JUST SOME CLUB THAT I USED TO KNOW.


Last edited by George Harris on Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:47 am 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:00 am
Posts: 23123
Sheahan pulled the $600,000 figure out of his butt.

Indie wrote:
Ratten's chances
Quote:
At Carlton, the wildcard remains Brett Ratten. Club president Dick Pratt believes that four wins from the next six games would be enough for Ratten to get the job, and you would imagine that message has been communicated to the players, who will know what they have to do to deliver the job to the former captain.



Geez, Mr Pratt gives Pagan a 50% winning requirement, but then asks Ratten to win 66% of games.

_________________
|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:09 am 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:55 pm
Posts: 12617
Location: Brisbane
Jarusa wrote:
Sheahan pulled the $600,000 figure out of his butt.

Indie wrote:
Ratten's chances
Quote:
At Carlton, the wildcard remains Brett Ratten. Club president Dick Pratt believes that four wins from the next six games would be enough for Ratten to get the job, and you would imagine that message has been communicated to the players, who will know what they have to do to deliver the job to the former captain.



Geez, Mr Pratt gives Pagan a 50% winning requirement, but then asks Ratten to win 66% of games.


Mr Pratt putting on his other hat.

That of comedian.

_________________
THEY LIKE TO SEND UP!!!!!!!!

Until each team plays each other the same number of times, the AFL, as a fair dinkum competition, cannot be taken seriously.

He (Mr Swann) said the honour and pride associated with the club's traditional navy blue jumper was priceless.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:12 am 
Online
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 18720
Location: threeohfivethree
Mike Sheahan wrote:
Fevola, Nick Stevens and Jarrad Waite are the A-graders, Kade Simpson and Brad Fisher are players, Marc Murphy, Andrew Walker, Bryce Gibbs, Eddie Betts and Josh Kennedy will be, but will take time. That's 10.

Throw in Andrew Carrazzo and Heath Scotland, and you have a mere dozen.


Bret Thornton must be feeling good about himself today. :lol:

Interesting Mike doesn't include Setanta among those who will be players.

Good on you Mike - on the ball again. :wink:

_________________
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:27 am 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:04 am
Posts: 28377
Location: *Currently banned*
No chance for four wins.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:21 am 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 21075
Location: Missing Kouta
mjonc wrote:
Tell me why you need to be an assistant to coach an AFL team?

Is coaching not about getting the best out of your players?

Motivatng your players? Providing leadership?

Making sure the game plan and message you send to your players is adhered too?

Isn't a major part of the coaches role to market the club? Raise the hopes of supporters and sponsors?

Are assistants only use to give feedback on positional sections on the ground? and help with training drills and player development?

Do assistants have the experience in dealing with media or sponsors? If so is it much different to the Captain of a Premiership Club?

Can't anyone watch video tape and analyse, develop reports for individual players on certain roles or matchups the next week? Is it not about how you prepare?

If guys like Chris Bond, Guy McKenna so worthy of a coaching gig, why were they second and third best to Ross Lyon?

The media is the one constant that piles the pressures onto coaches, otherwise is it really as complex a role that people are making it out to be?

Do they need a mentor to guide them through their first two years? :?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:35 am 
Offline
Geoff Southby

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:29 pm
Posts: 5913
Location: Melbourne
We could appoint one of three types:

1. An experienced senior coach, like a Denis Pagan. Less perceived risk, but also no guarantee of success. Could do 'a Matthews, or could do 'a Pagan'.

2. An experienced assistant coach. Again, less perceived risk, but the majority of people in this bracket fail. For every Roos, there are ten Frawley's. Remember Robert Shaw? One of the best assistant coaches of the last 20 years... failed when he tried the senior gig. Very different jobs.

3. Someone with no coaching experience, but who has the personal attributes to succeed, like a Voss or a Buckley. To be honest, I really don't see this as such a huge risk, given the fact that most senior coaches leave the job as failures anyway. It's not like we'd be choosing between a Voss and a guaranteed success.

Where we're at right now: young list, a club trying to reinvent itself, a club desperate to position itself as newly relevant in the marketplace, a club that doesn't expect to play finals in the next couple of years, a club that needs to value player development over and above immediate onfield results... all these things point to a Voss with an experience backup person as a bold, but wise, choice.

Of course, it could fail. But we could appoint Roos and he could fail. Just like Pagan did. Or we could appoint McKenna and he could fail. Most do.

Honestly, what's the worst that can happen? We appoint Voss for 3 years, and orientate our entire focus towards player development (Voss, don't forget, is spending 2007 working with the AIS development program) and instilling the right onfield ethics in our playing group (ie, leadership, doing the right thing by the team, etc)

Based on the evidence at hand, these are areas in which Voss should be very good. So, after say 2 seasons, maybe we discover that Voss isn't a tactical genius. Worst case? We've significantly developed our list, but we need to augment our coaching panel with tacticians. Sheedy didn't make those moves in the 93 granny... his assistants did that.

Of all the clubs looking for a coach, Carlton is actually the club with the least to lose. I know we're all shitting ourselves about the immediate future, but really - the pressure is on the recruiters and the broader coaching setup. Recruiting and player development is our focus, not win/loss ratios.

We can afford to try Voss. At the worst, he'll bring with him an attitude that our young list can assimilate. He'll reinvigorate the image of the club, making it far more desirable to younger fans. He can make some mistakes and learn along the way, because we're not in the position where a loss or two is going to rob us of our 17th flag.

I really hope we do it.

One last thing: we didn't 'follow the process' when appointing Greg Swann either. And I don't hear anyone complaining about him.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:19 pm 
Online
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 18720
Location: threeohfivethree
Good post John.

We're all still shit scared because we don't know the full story and considering the last few years that's a fairly understandable response.

_________________
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:21 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:46 am
Posts: 2547
Location: Melbourne
JohnM wrote:
One last thing: we didn't 'follow the process' when appointing Greg Swann either. And I don't hear anyone complaining about him.

The 'process' is blatently stupid anyway. Football is a business true but the requirements and skill set needed to be an AFL coach is so vastly different to that of a corporate manager that going through your standard business recruitment agency to select one is the very height of folly, and is a sign of an indecisive and fearful administration.

"Ok so we choose the wrong coach but at least we went through the right processes"

Cowardly.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:57 pm 
Online
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 18720
Location: threeohfivethree
Andain wrote:
JohnM wrote:
One last thing: we didn't 'follow the process' when appointing Greg Swann either. And I don't hear anyone complaining about him.

The 'process' is blatently stupid anyway. Football is a business true but the requirements and skill set needed to be an AFL coach is so vastly different to that of a corporate manager that going through your standard business recruitment agency to select one is the very height of folly, and is a sign of an indecisive and fearful administration.

"Ok so we choose the wrong coach but at least we went through the right processes"

Cowardly.


I'm not interested in a St Kilda charade process Andain - just want to know that we're not fixated on Voss at the expense of the many others who may be more switched on. Provided what I'm hearing (that we've been sussing out many over a long period of time) is true then I'm more than happy if we go for Voss if he's the most impressive candidate. The Saints can keep their psychometric testing for themselves.

_________________
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:11 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:52 am
Posts: 1588
Location: My social club stand, Princes Park
Graeme Allan pumped up Vossy on the radio today saying he's ready.

_________________

************************************************************
NOW YOU'RE JUST SOME CLUB THAT I USED TO KNOW.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:22 pm 
Offline
Wayne Johnston
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:34 am
Posts: 8888
Location: 8888
Swanny on TripleM said the meeting went for two hours covering the current list, future facilities and other changes around the club. Meeting didn't go into much detail on tactics or coaching philosophies etc.

Frawley also stated he has met with Vossy five times this year and dicussed boxes that would need to be ticked when taking a job as well as other coaching topics. Those boxes were the support around him eg. Swanny, Pratt, Icke etc. Frawley says he hasn't spoken to Voss specifically about coming to Carlton.

_________________
Mjonc signing off at 8888


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:22 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:43 pm
Posts: 1323
The whole Denis 'left graciously' thing and he 'lacked resources' is BS.

He left with probably 3-4 million dollars from the club and delivered little. Perhaps if he took a performance based contract, he would have had more resources to work with.

I hold no bad feelings towards the man, but jesus christ, the buck stops with the coach and this year he had as much resources as he liked and the players lost confidence in him.

A coach from the 90's that could not adapt.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:25 pm 
Offline
Robert Walls
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:54 pm
Posts: 3529
Location: looking for a good bloke to have a beer with
The latest in the Carlton vs Essendon* battles or trying to up Voss's value to ensure a club pays top $$ for an inexperienced coach?

_________________
I'm shocked to be sitting here


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:59 pm 
Offline
Bert Deacon

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:44 am
Posts: 539
bluebo baggers wrote:
The latest in the Carlton vs Essendon* battles or trying to up Voss's value to ensure a club pays top $$ for an inexperienced coach?


Yeah, what's that Sheedy up to? I still don't trust him..

Interestingly, Watson said last night on the footy that Sheedy and Pratt go back a fair way.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:19 pm 
Online
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 18720
Location: threeohfivethree
billy_bongo wrote:
Interestingly, Watson said last night on the footy that Sheedy and Pratt go back a fair way.


Dick makes boxes.

Sheedy's been hit around the head a lot of times.

_________________
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 87 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 51 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group