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Total Youth Policy
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17132		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  4everBlue [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Total Youth Policy
Hopefully the board will have the courage to make some big decisions in the not too distant future.
Pagan gone is the most obvious, IMHO Libba and a few others need to go with him.
But what is the best strategy going forward for the club?
Obviously different coaches will have different opinions on which strategy would best suit the list and the club.
Add to that that different potential coaches will have differing opinions of the players on our list, and also the roles that they are currently being used for.

I would like to think that Ratten will be given the coaching job ala Worsfold going back to WCE.
But maybe the club might think that he won't make the hard calls on former team-mates?

Maybe an independent person like McKenna would make those decisions without any emotional baggage?

Will Voss be as successful as everyone thinks he will by going straight in without an apprenticeship?

Whoever it is, McKenna, Ratten, Voss, Bond, etc they will have different views on the best way forward for the list, and who to add/delist from it.

FWIW, here are my thoughts on trading, and the additions/delistings etc.

New Coach: Ratten
PP: Kruezer
#3: Cotchin (or Palmer)

Delist: Obvious list but I'll run through 'em
McLaren, Saddington, Bannister, Teague

Retire: Kouta, Whitnall, Lappin, (Saddington?)

Trade: Fev (nothing personal, just could be a win/win for both parties) for eg Hurn+ top ten pick (Myers/Morton?)
Betts? Carrazzo? Bentick?

Ins: Kruezer, Cotchin, Hurn, Myers
Out: PAGAN, Kouta, Whitnall, Lappin, McLaren, Bannister, Saddington, Teague

Possible Line Up (on paper)

FB: Anderson, O'Hailpin, Thornton
HB: Scotland, Cloke, Grigg
C: Simpson, Hurn, Walker
HF: Fisher, Waite, Gibbs
FF: Houlihan, Kennedy, Edwards?
R: Kruezer, Stevens (Capt), Murphy (VC)
I: Hampson, Carrazzo? Blackwell, Myers
Em: Hartlett, Betts? Austin

As you can see, I believe that the best way forward is for a total youth approach. We have nothing to lose because we are already getting smashed. Let them all play in the same side week in week out so that they become a team together, one that hunts together.
Denis says "they will learn from it" but they don't because they are not getting enough support.
FWIW, I think Hartlett will be okay if he can sort out his injuries.
Betts doesn't have any consistency yet.
Carrazzo gets a heap of possies and tries his guts out every week, but has to be more damaging with those possies.
Not convinced that Bentick will stand the test of time once we get a few more draft picks, although he does give 100% each week.
Author:  Fevolution [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
im pretty sure the new coach would want to keep fev. U dont trade ur best player and only elite player
Author:  thegezman [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
i think i'd keep fev too.

especially if we end up with picks 1 and three.
i'm seriously hope we do now and i'v never been "pro tank"

if we win we win but i'd be devestated if we only win one more.

fev is a out and out match winner and still has 5 years left in him i reckon - and i reckon that within our next flag window.

when gibbs, murphy, kennedy, betts etc have another 3-4 years in them we should be ready.

hopefully by then fev wont be tripple teamed and might be able to play from the FP and help maul teams.

keep fev if he behaves as he has the last 2 weeks. if he drops hios head again he can go. but at the moment i'd keep him.

if we could some how trade our second rounder with a reasonable player (say houla) to get someone middle ages with some leadership qualities would be great. or poaching a ready made genuine ruck would be great.

we are going to have to make some hard calls on fringe players like saddo and banno i feel, but you can go "total youth" an not expect getting hammered every week.

the kids need some support (which is why we are getting pumped at the mo, cause there currently is none).
Author:  kennyhunter [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
The decision on Fev will probably be made by the board ... before the new coach is announced.
Author:  Donstuie [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Why in God's name would you want to get rid of Carazzo?? He's been the heart and soul of this team all year and by far our most consistent performer in the middle. He'll be a future matchwinner for this club.
Author:  Hunter u Champ [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Donstuie wrote:
Why in God's name would you want to get rid of Carazzo?? He's been the heart and soul of this team all year and by far our most consistent performer in the middle. He'll be a future matchwinner for this club.


Spot on donstuie,
could not believe my eyes reading about Carrazo possible trade,He and simmo have carried a huge burden this season and you don't reward that effort with trade talk rubbish.
Untouchable!
Author:  exsing [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hunter u Champ wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Why in God's name would you want to get rid of Carazzo?? He's been the heart and soul of this team all year and by far our most consistent performer in the middle. He'll be a future matchwinner for this club.


Spot on donstuie,
could not believe my eyes reading about Carrazo possible trade,He and simmo have carried a huge burden this season and you don't reward that effort with trade talk rubbish.
Untouchable!


Yes, that would be extremely mind boggling. I would dread the message it would be sending to the other players on the list. Work your arse off from being a rookie listed player, to be such a champion for the Carlton Club, an example to others and we trade you. Drop your head, throw a hissy fit, but have heaps of talent and don't give a shit about others, we would still keep you.
Author:  Bookie [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm with Borat, If there's grass on the pitch let's play..
Author:  sstormin123 [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Shannon Hurn?! you have got to be joking!
He is a spud that is simply supported by an outstanding midfield of the WCE.
I agree with the rest you said but not that.
I would be shocked if carlton were to pick a lemon like him
Author:  4everBlue [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
not suggesting to trade players like Carrazzo unless we a) pick up some ready to play draft picks
b) get asked for him in order to pick up another deal.
If you read what I posted I said that he gives 110% every week, just has to be more damaging with his possessions.
With a quality ruckman, and more midfield support, and the return of Stevens, that shouldn't be out of the question.

Re Fev, well ffs fellas, obviously you would only trade Fev if he decided that he no longer had the passion for the club, and then you would ask for as much as possible for him in return.
:roll:
Author:  winfieldblue [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
fev is our best player... he has been frustrated this year and form dropped alittle after having an all australian season last season... a little retracement in form is no problem, kouta had it in 1998 fev will consolidate next year..give him playmakers with a-grade delivery... as good as fisher is he should be playing half forward flank leading up the wing -- he is not a forward pocket.
Author:  4everBlue [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
winfieldblue wrote:
fev is our best player... he has been frustrated this year and form dropped alittle after having an all australian season last season... a little retracement in form is no problem, kouta had it in 1998 fev will consolidate next year..give him playmakers with a-grade delivery... as good as fisher is he should be playing half forward flank leading up the wing -- he is not a forward pocket.


My thoughts exactly.
That's why I said trade Fev only if his heart is not in it anymore.

You're spot on about Fish - that's why I put him on the HFF. :wink:
Author:  popeye [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
winfieldblue wrote:
fev is our best player... he has been frustrated this year and form dropped alittle after having an all australian season last season... a little retracement in form is no problem, kouta had it in 1998 fev will consolidate next year..give him playmakers with a-grade delivery... as good as fisher is he should be playing half forward flank leading up the wing -- he is not a forward pocket.


Fisher is more dangerous deep. I'd get rid of Fev, don't care what we get for him he is a negative as it stands. And I'd get rid of Scotland. All these guys care about is their stats and how good they look. You can never forgive THAT piss weak effort against the Swans last week (Scotland). Why do you think the captaincy rotation stopped? It was the MC (i.e Pagan) that put the 4 names up and the leadership group voted Waite and Simmo first (did Fev get a vote?). Let the youth take over and stop the waxing between the 'senior blokes'.

And what's the definition of our best player? Does that include tackling, shepherding, chasing, applying pressure, spoiling, screening, encouraging, knock ons, goal assists, taking a hit for your team's and teammates advantage, being able to play multiple positions and finally can lead by example. How would you compare Fev to say someone like Brett Kirk, who would you have in your side and who would you go to war with? At least our young guys do the 1%ers.
Author:  Rambo Stallone [ Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Donstuie wrote:
Why in God's name would you want to get rid of Carazzo?? He's been the heart and soul of this team all year and by far our most consistent performer in the middle. He'll be a future matchwinner for this club.
I think because he is good currency to get something and i think he would not be in high regard to Stevens,Murphy,Gibbs,Walker and especially if we get to snatch Hurn or Judd.

I could see us losing him or Simpson to get a trade for a top defender because thats our weakest link and the club knows it and has hopes for Shaun Grigg,Jordan Russell and another young midfielder to step up to rotate with the others mention.
Author:  Nicko Carstairs [ Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Rambo Stallone wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Why in God's name would you want to get rid of Carazzo?? He's been the heart and soul of this team all year and by far our most consistent performer in the middle. He'll be a future matchwinner for this club.
I think because he is good currency to get something and i think he would not be in high regard to Stevens,Murphy,Gibbs,Walker and especially if we get to snatch Hurn or Judd.

I could see us losing him or Simpson to get a trade for a top defender because thats our weakest link and the club knows it and has hopes for Shaun Grigg,Jordan Russell and another young midfielder to step up to rotate with the others mention.


Sh!t, I don't wanna lose either, but I think you may be right. We sure do have a lot of developing midfield players with potential. Jeez, I dont think I could stomach the loss of either....
Author:  Rambo Stallone [ Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:39 am ]
Post subject: 
Nicko Carstairs wrote:
Rambo Stallone wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Why in God's name would you want to get rid of Carazzo?? He's been the heart and soul of this team all year and by far our most consistent performer in the middle. He'll be a future matchwinner for this club.
I think because he is good currency to get something and i think he would not be in high regard to Stevens,Murphy,Gibbs,Walker and especially if we get to snatch Hurn or Judd.

I could see us losing him or Simpson to get a trade for a top defender because thats our weakest link and the club knows it and has hopes for Shaun Grigg,Jordan Russell and another young midfielder to step up to rotate with the others mention.


Sh!t, I don't wanna lose either, but I think you may be right. We sure do have a lot of developing midfield players with potential. Jeez, I dont think I could stomach the loss of either....
It sucks especially because Carazzo is a Carlton man barracked for and Simpson has speed but like i said our defense is the real mess and Ruckmen,our forwards and midfield are the best bet of good trades for a backline or someone like Judd,no one will care about our backline we have no one there only Thornton who needs top defenders there where a young kid like Joe Anderson and Walker play there along side them,hopefully Benjamin,Flint and Jamieson can make it but they all kids still.
Author:  keogh [ Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Trade Fevola

IMO his time is up

His actions after the Lions game given his previous week off was ordinary

He is 27 next year

Bit like Tarrant.Will never grow up, look himself in the mirror and actually change


The impact on our kids must be damaging

But lets hope Swann can work out a deal with another club to gets us a first rounder and a ruckman who is at least competitive whilst Aisake,Hampson and Kreuser ? develop

As for Carrazzo being traded , we would have Kreuser signed,sealed and delivered if carrots hadnt played this year.

Obviously been to different games. Will win the B anf F by the length of Royal Parade.
Author:  Barnesy [ Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:58 am ]
Post subject: 
They need to make a decision on how bad Fev's attitude is in terms of how it affects the team.

We know he can play, and he could be the difference between finals in two years and being round about.

If they believe a new coach can square the ledger between attitude and form then no way would you let him go.

I hope they apply the same blowtorch to Scotland and Thornton by the way.
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