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The Kids
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17028		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  blueboysean [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  The Kids
I know RR gave us a bit of a report earlier on, but I was thinking this time, a comprehensive discussion about how our kids are going, in relation to Bullants, Seniors and their overall development. I'd prefer as little Denis-bashing as possible. I'd also like to include people like 1AW, even though he's been around for a while.

The players I'm most worried about are JR and JK.

Anyway, I'd like to talk about individual players. I know perhaps this would be better suited to Talking Players, but that's not always a happening place.

Anyway, go wild.
Author:  mjonc [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
I say put any critism of any kid to the side until 2008 when we have a new coach, two development coaches and reserves team to give them confidence and chance to shine in there corect positions.
Author:  blueboysean [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, I tend to agree. The purpose of this thread was not to criticise, because we seem to do enough of that here. Nevertheless, the thread is open for discussion.
Author:  winfieldblue [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
there is no such thing as correct position, in todays age of AFL football they must be flexible to play in a variety of positions.

when they are not ready for AFL they are simply not ready...
Author:  Drewgirl [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
I reckon young kids need to perfect one position first and get some confidence, then they can feel confident playing anywhere else. Young kids starting AFL need to get used to many things, pace, bigger guys etc, and they should not be confused by many positions.
Author:  winfieldblue [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
its not as simple as that....when a player matches up well with a player and is breaking 50/50 you need to counter move the opposition and sometime be pro active...80% of the time you play on the same player all day and sometimes you need to play them at the half foward flank, to the wing to the back pocket... if we are going to let the kids play in one position all day then expect to lose week in week out because the coaches box has no room to make his counter and pro active moves.
Author:  bluehammer [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Re JK...

Roughead showed very little until this year...

Spent time in the 2's.

Similar players really. Let's revisit this is 12 months eh?
Author:  Mark J [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Confidence-that's all that's required :)
Author:  winfieldblue [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
yes very true.. but lets not compare him with rough head because roughhead was very capable playing CHB/CHF for the box hill hawks and was continuously taking pack marks in the VFL, easily a true stand out in the VFL...compare him with hartlett and austin...roughhead is 193-194cm
hard to see JK being a defender so ruck/forward are his liekly positions how close he gets to the level of Justin Longmuir, Troy Simmonds, Darryl White, Josh Fraser is yet to be seen...JK is big, way taller than his listed 195cm.. he'll be easily 197-199cm...he was only an inch shorter when he was standing next to jolly; and jolly is 200cm..
Author:  uncle john [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
I worry about Adam Hartlett. There's so much to like about his game, but he just can't stay on the park.

Actually, the "almost forgotten" Anthony Rasso falls into the same category. He's just about had every injury and illness know to man!!

Then there was Murph's shoulder, JK's shoulder, Joe A's hamstring, Sean Grigs shoulder, Jake's Foot (??), Our man Flints foot, Jacko's hand, Clinton B had something go wrong, Irish Ostiopubichairitis, Stone cold Austin looked like he'd hurt something last Saturday, Jacobs thumb ..... etc.

A little bit of luck with injuries wouldn't go astray!!
Author:  hannahadhair [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Is JK still growing? Would explain a stall in his developement.
Author:  winfieldblue [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
hannahadhair wrote:
Is JK still growing? Would explain a stall in his developement.


thats a good point... but doesnt explain his poor body work in a contest. it's something he needs to work on... send him to martial arts classes or something to put the instinct in him to put his body inbetween the flight of the ball and his man when contesting..he depends his lanky arms to do all the work like a typical basketball player.. he has poor football instincts,
Author:  chubbyruss [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
winfieldblue wrote:
hannahadhair wrote:
Is JK still growing? Would explain a stall in his developement.


thats a good point... but doesnt explain his poor body work in a contest. it's something he needs to work on... send him to martial arts classes or something to put the instinct in him to put his body inbetween the flight of the ball and his man when contesting..he depends his lanky arms to do all the work like a typical basketball player.. he has poor football instincts,


It might help if we had some development coaches
Author:  amazonstud [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
We do not have a settled goal to goal line or ruck division and the development of our kids is unbalanced. There is a breakdown in communication between the senior coach and the reserve coach and that must also hinder their development.

I think that the addition of an onball brigade breaking free and kicking it long towards the goal would see a lot of difference in Josh Kennedy. He is learning his trade as a forward and being asked to play ruck due to circumstances when IMO he should be playing out of the forward pocket. So I think he is playing without confidence in the AFL.

The team is leaking and we just can't seem to plug all the holes at present. CHB, CHF, Ruck, onball, back pocket, forward pocket. The MC have had to throw our senior players around left right and centre which also doesn't help the kids. The normal manner of development in most AFL clubs is for the kids to play alongside established players and only be required to play bit parts. We are asking Bentick Carrazzo Setanta Rusell Murphy Gibbs Hartlett Kennedy Betts etc to play major roles.

The introduction of the academy next year will certainly help boost their performance and development as will another pre-season and weight work.
Author:  Elwood Blues1 [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think if you took your navy blue glasses off and looked at in an objective way you would be concerned.
A lot of our young players look miles off and its either the coaching or they are not good enough......
Only Russell and Hartlett have done enough seasons to be judged and it wouldnt be looking flash for either of them.
I also think Wayne Hughes would be uncomfortable watching Joel Selwood performing at Geelong as well......
Author:  blueslander [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
I haven't seen JK in any recent matches, but at the start of the year I think that he was going great guns. He reminded me a little of earl spalding. He was good below the knees, contantly led in the corridore, was not afraid to use his body and pretty much did the team thing all the time. Of course, he was pretty much totally ignored by the Fev concious mids, but he kept trying.

The only potential area that I see him needing to work on is accelerating into the contest rather than slowing down, so he hits the contest at full speed rather than slowing down and being able to be pushed off the contest too easily.

He needs a game plan that capitalizes on his strengths and that is making a contest at CHF and lots of support once the ball hits the deck. If Carlton let him go, he would pretty much fit into just about any other side in the competition and within a few years of being able to find his place, be one of the comp's best key position players.

On JR, I have watched many games this season and as yet I am really struggling to find out where this guy's strengths are. Most people I guess would say his pace, but he seems to be made to play so defensive that he is always being led to the ball. I am yet to see him do anything creative that looks like it comes from his own initiative. Again, if he was playing in a side where he was allowed to take some chances and try to use his own initiatives (maybe like Collingwood) I'm sure he would be much better. Again, I think he is a good player, but does not really fit into our club at the moment.
Author:  lawrence_angwin [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think JR has shown development this year, moving to become more positive and playing on at all costs - if he improved similarly again next year no one would question his place in the team.

JK worries me a little, I like the kid but its not that he isn't performing, its that flashes are rare. Loved his pack mark and goal last week though, would love to see more of that. I just think to an outside observer we have very little coming through, and that is the most relevant thing - they look without blue tinted glasses
Author:  dadadadada [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Elwood Blues1 wrote:
I think if you took your navy blue glasses off and looked at in an objective way you would be concerned.
A lot of our young players look miles off and its either the coaching or they are not good enough......
Only Russell and Hartlett have done enough seasons to be judged and it wouldnt be looking flash for either of them.
I also think Wayne Hughes would be uncomfortable watching Joel Selwood performing at Geelong as well......


I think Bryce Gibbs would fit in very nicely at Geelong as well ... not so sure how Joel Selwood would be going if he was playing at Carlton. Both are very good players.

Not defending Hughes by the way. The jury is still out on him. The most perplexing draft selection for me will always be Russell.
Author:  Hunter u Champ [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
From the west its hard to gauge the development of the future of the club. From reading opinions here and watching as much Carlton games and bullants games on the TV mixed with the two games at subiaco i think things dont look too bad.
Appears the group have talent but are really being thrown to the wolves at the moment.
I see a lot of the hawks of a few years back when their young fellas had a hard and fast education of top line AFL footy.
I would like to think that the likes of JR, JK,Hartlett,Bower,Griggs,Blackwell and Gibbs will gain valuable experience through this season and start to fore fill the potential that we seen in parts of their play to date.
I would imagine some if not all will start to blossom as per Simpson, Walker, Carrazzo Waite and Murphy have.

We must have some patience, And a stable goal to goal spine to aid their development.
Author:  amazonstud [ Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Elwood,

I admit that I don't like bagging players just for the sake of it and I try to see their good as well as bad.

I think we have the following basis of a team that can develop together over the next 4 years - Thornton, Walker Scotland Setanta, Simpson Gibbs Murphy Rusell Betts Kennedy Fisher Waite Houlihan and Fevola. I have excluded Lappin Kouta and Lance because I doubt if they will be with us as players in 4 years.

Anyway I think that's 14 players out of a team of 22 and no chb, no back pocket, not enough midfield depth, not enough runners, and no ruckmen. If as the pundits say you build a succesful side from defence then we need to play Setanta down back and get a CHB and back pocket and start playing them asap.

Do I think we have the kids to fill some of the positions in our team long term? Possibly. Do they need more game time and development? Yes. Can we make an accurate assessment on them at present? Not IMO Are there aspects of their games that they need to improve? Yes. Should we keep turning over players adding 2 or 4 more quality kids each year ? Yes.
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