One key difference between the Roos and us.
Roos:
Grant
Archer
Harvey
Simpson
Petrie
McIntosh
Us:
Houlihan
Lappin
Whitnall
Kouta
Fev
Ackland
I'll let y'all figure out the rest
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| Spirit! http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17011 |
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| Author: | BlueDW [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Spirit! |
Just finished watching the Kangas beat the Dockers. A couple of things came to my very drunk mind (yeah I know it is a school night, but I am off to the Sunshine Coast for some sun and surfing tomorrow so I dont really give a toss, also the Gabba next Sunday to see us lose to the lions). Anyway, after seeing the undermanned (2-3 players injured so depleted on the bench against one of the better front running sides in the comp on one of the biggest grounds in the comp) Kangas beat the Dockers, I started thingking about spirit and what it actully means to a football club. And the only conclusion was that it means a helluva lot. Our boys when they were having a crack in the first quarter today took on and were beating the best (over the past couple of years) man on man team in the AFL! Why? Because they were haivng a crack. All of a sudden, the tide changed a bit (as it was bound to) and our boys dropped their heads, got into blame mode, stopped doing the basics (is there anything more basic in footy than manning up?) and ultimately got their pants pulled down! When I started playing footy some things were non negotiable. i/ you wore garters to keep your socks up. ii/ you always had your jumper tucked in. iii/ You always tried to beat the man you were playing on. Seems to me that the basics dont matter anymore. The way Mark Malceski (nothing more than what Jack Dyer would call a good average footbaler) ran around today you would expect that he will be in the running for Charlie come years end. I would ask you TCer's. How many players on our list can we expect on a weekly basis to beat their man, and ultimately help us move forwards in terms of working towards number 17? I dont think we have much talent personally, but what is worse, I dont believe we have much spirit, or in more simple terms players who are willing to do what is necesary, even if it means sacrificing their game for the betterment fo the team, to help us achieve our goals both short and long term. Anyway, those are my thoughts. Go Blues!!! |
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| Author: | Kaptain Kouta [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:43 pm ] |
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Malceski is much better than "average", but in general I agree. |
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| Author: | thedominator [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:47 pm ] |
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Good post. Couldn't agree more. Also watched the North game. You gotta admire a team like them. No stars under the pump odds stacked against them and yet they came thru. Why? because they have big hearts. They play for each other and they play for the jumper they wear. Simply put. They care. Many at our club could learn a lot from watching a replay of the North game. We have too many passengers, too many selfish players, too many just playing out time, too many youngsters who may be talented but are coached by someone who is providing no guidance no support and absolutely no belief for them to able to show this talent. |
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| Author: | Wolfe [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Spirit what spirit our team has no spirit at moment we wouldnt be in this situation if we had spirit but sadly not gonna happen while we have Pagan still in as coach. Why would the team play with spirit when they dont believe in the coach, dont like the coach, dont play for the coach, dont respect the coach. Quite simply when Pagan coach and the we have a new coach who the players respect, play for, believe in and want to play for then we will see a different team. No point picking on individual players our whole list is suffering the younger players / new recruits / seniors. The whole list is playing without any enjoyment or spirit. been sapped by the current coach who we know will be gone soon... only a matter of time the sooner the better. Abd Care taker coach if Pagan goes sooner than later instruct him to play the kids simple Play Hamo in the ruck / play Grigg / Edwards maybe a select other kids and just play them to see what they can do. we are not likely to win another game so just give the caretaker the oppertunity to blood the remaining kids and we can start to see what these kids can offer for 2008 |
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| Author: | Taff [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Wolfe wrote: Spirit what spirit our team has no spirit at moment we wouldnt be in this situation if we had spirit but sadly not gonna happen while we have Pagan still in as coach.
Why would the team play with spirit when they dont believe in the coach, dont like the coach, dont play for the coach, dont respect the coach. Quite simply when Pagan coach and the we have a new coach who the players respect, play for, believe in and want to play for then we will see a different team. No point picking on individual players our whole list is suffering the younger players / new recruits / seniors. The whole list is playing without any enjoyment or spirit. been sapped by the current coach who we know will be gone soon... only a matter of time the sooner the better. Abd Care taker coach if Pagan goes sooner than later instruct him to play the kids simple Play Hamo in the ruck / play Grigg / Edwards maybe a select other kids and just play them to see what they can do. we are not likely to win another game so just give the caretaker the oppertunity to blood the remaining kids and we can start to see what these kids can offer for 2008 Totally agree!!! After seeing last week's game live I knew something was wrong, a basic element, so obvious I didn't see it immediately. No spirit! They do not believe in themselves or each other. The responsibilty rests with the players individually and the coach(es). The lack of belief is palpable. Football is a team game, we do not play like that. Bring on a new coaching team ASAP! |
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| Author: | BlueDW [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Wolfe wrote: Spirit what spirit our team has no spirit at moment we wouldnt be in this situation if we had spirit but sadly not gonna happen while we have Pagan still in as coach.
Why would the team play with spirit when they dont believe in the coach, dont like the coach, dont play for the coach, dont respect the coach. Quite simply when Pagan coach and the we have a new coach who the players respect, play for, believe in and want to play for then we will see a different team. No point picking on individual players our whole list is suffering the younger players / new recruits / seniors. The whole list is playing without any enjoyment or spirit. been sapped by the current coach who we know will be gone soon... only a matter of time the sooner the better. Abd Care taker coach if Pagan goes sooner than later instruct him to play the kids simple Play Hamo in the ruck / play Grigg / Edwards maybe a select other kids and just play them to see what they can do. we are not likely to win another game so just give the caretaker the oppertunity to blood the remaining kids and we can start to see what these kids can offer for 2008 Blokes who have spirit (eg Archer) give their all regardless of who is coaching. Personally I dont think that Pagan deserves to keep coaching, however I do believe that shouldnt stop the players from having a crack. They are paid exceedingly good money to do what most of us would do for nothing (easy to say from this side of the fence right?) therefore winning or losing, surely effort is one thing that each and every player has control of for 100% of the game. That is my gripe. The Kangaroos definitely dont have a list that is in the top half of the comp talent wise, however, they are after 15 rounds sitting 3rd on the ladder, and absolutely deserving to be there. Why? Well footy at the end of the day isnt JUST about talent, or the quality of your training facilities (Glenn Archer made a point about 12 months ago that lifting 50 kg's at Arden St is just the same as lifting 50 kg's at the Lexus Centre), but the most important element of winning a game of footy whether it be the Eastern League between Vermont and East Burwood, or the AFL GF, in most cases the team who wants it more, will prevail. The old saying that footy is 90% between the ears is still valid in my opnion. CFC over the previous 5 years to me just hasnt has these qualities. |
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| Author: | Donstuie [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
One key difference between the Roos and us. Roos: Grant Archer Harvey Simpson Petrie McIntosh Us: Houlihan Lappin Whitnall Kouta Fev Ackland I'll let y'all figure out the rest
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| Author: | Mark J [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Was ready to nominate you for early POW until you said Malcheski was a good/ordinary player. Wish we had a few good ordinary players 
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| Author: | BlueDW [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Donstuie wrote: One key difference between the Roos and us.
Roos: Grant Archer Harvey Simpson Petrie McIntosh Us: Houlihan Lappin Whitnall Kouta Fev Ackland I'll let y'all figure out the rest Mate there is 1, maybe 2 A Graders in that lot, Harvey and McIntosh, the rest are good players without being great. That is my whole point, they all give their all each and every week. I cant remember when our boys did that on a consistent basis. |
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| Author: | blueman [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:22 pm ] |
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And of course, 'spirit' is the magic ingredient that the new young coach brings to Carlton in full measure, and is the key ingredient that a controlling coach snuffs out by way of his controlling actions. Sometimes things get worse. on top of worse, on top of being even worse. Other times things get better on top of being better, and then better again. Sppirit is an intangible but highly infectious quality in a team once it takes told. In our case, it takes us to a low position in the eight.. |
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| Author: | Taff [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Donstuie wrote: One key difference between the Roos and us.
Roos: Grant Archer Harvey Simpson Petrie McIntosh Us: Houlihan Lappin Whitnall Kouta Fev Ackland I'll let y'all figure out the rest Talent+spirit= success We have some talent but lack some one to harness that talent (read spirit). |
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| Author: | BlueDW [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Mark J wrote: Was ready to nominate you for early POW until you said Malcheski was a good/ordinary player. Wish we had a few good ordinary players
I was using a Jack Dyerism mate, he also nominated Buzza as a good ordinary player, we all know he was better than that. Malceski is a good player, today he looked like a great player because he didnt get any respect or attention. |
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| Author: | Effes [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
BlueDW wrote: because he didnt get any respect or attention.
Why didn't we pay any attention to him? One of the most lethal kicks in the competition and he was able to do whatever he wanted. |
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| Author: | keogh [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I went to Sydney on the weekend. Had a feeling the footy would be the lowpoint of the weekend. We were embarrasing We have no confidence We dont run hard enough We play players out of position We have no leaders We dont support each other on the field We play hacks rather than giving young kids a proper go thus installing no faith in our youngsters Our bottom level players arnt kicking on partly because the senior and reserves coach dont talk We have one game plan We dont follow the basic principals of football We make basic skill errors like kicking to opposition or dropping marks Some players are not fair dinkum The players dont look like they are enjoying their footy We dont have a ruckman Most clubs have two As I was walking out of the ground not more than 10 minutes after the game ther was sticks walking past me in a hurry. Where was he going. Shouldnt he be in the rooms with the boys Honestly some guys do not give a shit out there. And that hurts to say that but its true. There happy to take the money. This was worse than the Hawks, Freo game because the Swans in my view were ordinary. Its good that we are getting our act together off the field, but the broom needs to be swept in relation to the coaching staff and the list. Its not the losses .Its how we lose. The last 3 quarters today were shit. |
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| Author: | BlueDW [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
blueman wrote: And of course, 'spirit' is the magic ingredient that the new young coach brings to Carlton in full measure, and is the key ingredient that a controlling coach snuffs out by way of his controlling actions.
Sometimes things get worse. on top of worse, on top of being even worse. Other times things get better on top of being better, and then better again. Sppirit is an intangible but highly infectious quality in a team once it takes told. In our case, it takes us to a low position in the eight.. Mate the Kangas lost their first 3, their coach at the time was regarded as the worst in the comp by most, everyone had them nominated for the bottom of the ladder, the worst conditions that any team in the AFL have to deal with...what did they do? Kept plugging away! Bear in mind, they should of won round 1 as well against the Pies and should be 1 game clear in second spot. They didnt make excuses, they just went out and gave everything they had each and every week this year, their performance has been nothing short of magnificent. Cant base their performances on talent. Spirit and effort is the only thing that comes to mind. Wish our boys displayed the same qualities. |
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| Author: | Mark J [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
BlueDW wrote: Donstuie wrote: One key difference between the Roos and us. Roos: Grant Archer Harvey Simpson Petrie McIntosh Us: Houlihan Lappin Whitnall Kouta Fev Ackland I'll let y'all figure out the rest Mate there is 1, maybe 2 A Graders in that lot, Harvey and McIntosh, the rest are good players without being great. That is my whole point, they all give their all each and every week. I cant remember when our boys did that on a consistent basis. Blue DW - I think you've lost the plot! McIntosh ahead of Archer and Grant 
One NORM SMITH medalist, the other 300 games +. No Jack Dyerism's there MATE. |
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| Author: | Donstuie [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:42 pm ] |
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BlueDW wrote: Donstuie wrote: One key difference between the Roos and us. Roos: Grant Archer Harvey Simpson Petrie McIntosh Us: Houlihan Lappin Whitnall Kouta Fev Ackland I'll let y'all figure out the rest Mate there is 1, maybe 2 A Graders in that lot, Harvey and McIntosh, the rest are good players without being great. That is my whole point, they all give their all each and every week. I cant remember when our boys did that on a consistent basis. The point is that their senior players set an example for the younger guys to follow. And while some of them may no longer be in the elite, the spirit and commitment they bring to the team is infectious. Compare that to our "leaders". |
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| Author: | BlueDW [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Mark J wrote: BlueDW wrote: [color=blue] Donstuie wrote: One key difference between the Roos and us. Roos: Grant Archer Harvey Simpson Petrie McIntosh Us: Houlihan Lappin Whitnall Kouta Fev Ackland I'll let y'all figure out the rest Mate there is 1, maybe 2 A Graders in that lot, Harvey and McIntosh, the rest are good players without being great. That is my whole point, they all give their all each and every week. I cant remember when our boys did that on a consistent basis. Blue DW - I think you've lost the plot! McIntosh ahead of Archer and Grant One NORM SMITH medalist, the other 300 games +. No Jack Dyerism's there MATE. Actually 2 x Norm's there mate, Archer in 96, Grant in 99. They are good players no doubt but they are way past their best. This is a club that given the way things are set up in teh AFL have no right to be where they are on the ladder. Effort and spirit has got them there. BTW, Archer got his Norm because he was man enough to stand in front of Lockett all bloody afternoon and was prepared to cop the consequences. That is the point I am trying to make. |
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| Author: | BlueDW [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Mark J wrote: BlueDW wrote: [color=blue] Donstuie wrote: One key difference between the Roos and us. Roos: Grant Archer Harvey Simpson Petrie McIntosh Us: Houlihan Lappin Whitnall Kouta Fev Ackland I'll let y'all figure out the rest Mate there is 1, maybe 2 A Graders in that lot, Harvey and McIntosh, the rest are good players without being great. That is my whole point, they all give their all each and every week. I cant remember when our boys did that on a consistent basis. Blue DW - I think you've lost the plot! McIntosh ahead of Archer and Grant One NORM SMITH medalist, the other 300 games +. No Jack Dyerism's there MATE. Actually 2 x Norm's there mate, Archer in 96, Grant in 99. They are good players no doubt but they are way past their best. This is a club that given the way things are set up in teh AFL have no right to be where they are on the ladder. Effort and spirit has got them there. BTW, Archer got his Norm because he was man enough to stand in front of Lockett all bloody afternoon and was prepared to cop the consequences. That is the point I am trying to make. Doing whatever it takes to win. |
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| Author: | BlueDW [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Mark J wrote: BlueDW wrote: [color=blue] Donstuie wrote: One key difference between the Roos and us. Roos: Grant Archer Harvey Simpson Petrie McIntosh Us: Houlihan Lappin Whitnall Kouta Fev Ackland I'll let y'all figure out the rest Mate there is 1, maybe 2 A Graders in that lot, Harvey and McIntosh, the rest are good players without being great. That is my whole point, they all give their all each and every week. I cant remember when our boys did that on a consistent basis. Blue DW - I think you've lost the plot! McIntosh ahead of Archer and Grant One NORM SMITH medalist, the other 300 games +. No Jack Dyerism's there MATE. Actually 2 x Norm's there mate, Archer in 96, Grant in 99. They are good players no doubt but they are way past their best. This is a club that given the way things are set up in teh AFL have no right to be where they are on the ladder. Effort and spirit has got them there. BTW, Archer got his Norm because he was man enough to stand in front of Lockett all bloody afternoon and was prepared to cop the consequences. That is the point I am trying to make. Doing whatever it takes to win. |
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