Obviously it's not just his coaching that's backward.

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--------------------------------------------------------"The only one that could ever love me..."

I think you need to take a couple of chill pills and settle down.

Yes Pagan is doing a poor job, but its not the end of the world. 7 more weeks and he'll be replaced.

What you're doing though is blaming him for everything going wrong and it does nothing but detract from what is otherwise a solid argument.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

And I was worried about us tanking. Well how stupid am I? Today once and for all (ok maybe I'm a bit slow!) I realized that Pagan is not good enough to tank.

Tanking means being good enough to win but not. A coach that is tanking should be able to keep a game close and then just lose @ least most of the time. Pagan's record shows clearly that he is no where near a good enough coach to tank.

Pagan is the worst coach I have ever seen, anywhere.

Which leads me to ask this question. What other club in the AFL would not sack their coach with a record like Pagans?

With 3 10 goal losses in our last 4 games, what other club would still let their coach stay on after something like that?

I don't care if there is another year on his contract, I dont care how much we pay him per year, I don't care if we cant afford a new coach, what we ABSOLUTELY can't afford is for Pagan to stay as coach for a minit (spelling?) longer and do more harm to our club, players, and reputation.

If he stays a week longer we will be the laughing stock of the AFL (If were not already) as we are essentially saying that as a club it is acceptable to lose like this.

We are a proud club with many incredibly loyal and proud supporters and as such we should absolutely never tolerate what we have seen over the last month (years) or so.

I for 1 demand change, as members and supporters we deserve better and in my opinion we cannot get a new coach soon enough. (Due process must be followed of course, an interim coach would be acceptable.)


I didnt know which thread this would best fit in so I thought I would start a new 1! If the mods want to move it to a more appropriate place, go for it!

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1. Walker,
2. Menzel,
3. Murphy,
4. Gibbs,
5. Judd.

IMO Pagan has hurt us more than the draft penalties.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

If that sig is the formula for success, we're dead in the water.

I think its now safe to say that Connolly is finished at Freo. So there's another club who'll be on the the hunt. Unless they elevate Harvey of course. Methinks we'd best get a move on.

Some inspiring comments by our master coach:

"But we just didn't have enough good players on the day against the might of Sydney to sustain it for the four quarters. Their hardened professionals took control of the game and ran away… an easy win in the finish."

"Our younger blokes just can't compete for the periods required. That's not a criticism of them, it's part of their development, part of their growth."

"We can't stop them, we're leaking like a sieve, that's the way we play. I think long-term we're going to be better for being able to take the game on and attack it."

I'm amazed he can churn this crap out over and over again!!! It's actually becomming quite entertaining now!!!! Not being able to compete for long periods is now........."part of their development"

And wait for it...

"They're trying as hard as they can"

Pagan will go, there is no doubt. The only question is when. For those who want the Priority Pick, then the best thing is for Pagan to stay till the end of the season.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

"We can't stop them, we're leaking like a sieve, that's the way we play. I think long-term we're going to be better for being able to take the game on and attack it."

I am begging someone to tell me that he didnt actually say this!!!

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Blue blood is running through these veins!!! Go Blueys!!!

Does anyone have the definitive stats on Pagan's reign? I recall an article from a few weeks back that stated that 8 or 9 teams had recorded thier greatest winning margin or highest score (can't remember which) against us since Pagan took over.

Noticed this just now on The Age website:



Which teams are left to bend us over? In addition to tge 25-odd 60+ point beltings, how much have we lost the other games by? Our average winning margin must be <10?

Can someone statistically summarise the 5 years of carnage?

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"I had to eat"

He certainly did, although I think his intended meaning was that it was more important to attack than defend (which is his mantra as we all know). I doubt the intention is to "leak like a sieve".

mate although it can be hard, lets not focus on that kinda stuff....im sure we all know too familiarly the heavy losses and dont need reminding...looking forward is a lot healthier...

These are the stats as I know them.
Wosrt record of any coach in Carlton's long and previously proud history.

It's the only stat that matters.
Why he is still there is totally beyond me and defies any semblance of logic. And please none of this bullshit about waiting till season's end because we need the PP. It's not about the PP anymore. This club's future does not hinge on the PP. It's much greater than this. Big and brave decisions need to be made about change on all levels.

Change at the Coaching level and staff.
Change on the match committee level (i'm sure you all know who I mean here).
Change in the playing list. Some major trades, smart recruiting and overdue de-lisitngs need to be made.

It is no longer the time for snails pace moves and so called changes hidden in actual and unforgiveable procrastination.

In a nut shell it's time for people who have BALLS to take charge, act swiftly and with a decisive plan in place. Yes BALLS something nobody IMO at this ball-less club has anymore.

I dare anyone I have included in this assessment to prove me wrong. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

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" Koutoufides has taken the last quarter by the scruff of the neck..." Commentary Drew Morphett Last Qtr '99 Prelim. Pure Gold.

Thanks for the memories Kouta. You are and always will be a True Blue Carlton Legend. #43.

Port Adelaide are paying 92.5% of the salary cap. Now how the hell are we putting in performances like this paying 98%+?

A coach is payed to motivate, inspire, discipline a team. Port pay less to achieve this priviledge also.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

Absolute crrapola from Pagan - he is "giving them confidence to play an offensive game" -

if that was the case why can't they switch to the fat side from defence?The answer is because they are worried if they turn it over it will come straight back. A confident team can make the switch.


The only player with the confidence to switch in defence was Scotland - all the others are petrified.


Where are the runners to take a handpass from a guy who has taken a mark?


non-existant.

Pagan has to go - he has no idea.

Bryce Gibbs - I watched him carefully - 80% of the game in back pocket - what a waste...why can't he get a go in the midfield /half forward?

what a waste. it is beyond demoralising.

how many records are there there LEFT for opposition teams to shove in our face?

who do we play next week ?

maybe they can get a record score or a record winning score or a record goal difference or a record this.


ON ANOTHER MATTER - HOW CAN THE SWANS GET AWAY CONSISTENTLY WITH MARKS FOR PASSES THAT TRAVEL NO MORE THAN 8 METRES? I THOUGHT IT HAD TO TRAVEL 15 METRES? YET THEY GOT AT LEAST 3-5 GOALS FROM THOSE DIBBLY DABBLY PASSES UNDER 10 METRES. ONE IN PARTICULAR IN THE LAST QUARTER WAS BEYOND A JOKE!!!



PAGAN - GO!!!!!

PLEASE GO.

Pagan's stats from http://afl.allthestats.com/ (not including the infamous "26 60+point drubbings" stat)

103 games (2003-2007)
25 wins
76 losses
2 draws
25.24 winning %

Teams who have scored their BIGGEST SCORE AGAINST CARLTON in the Pagan era:
St Kilda: 196 (2004)
West Coast: 187 (2003)
Roos: 187 (2003)
Scum: 182 (2005)
Hawthorn: 180 (2007)
Freo: 173 (2007)
Geelong: 162 (2007)
Sydney: 162 (TODAY)
Melbourne: 160 (2004)
Brisbane: 140 (2004)

Teams who have recorded their GREATES WINNING MARGIN AGAINST CARLTON in the Pagan era:
Brisbane (as the Lions): 77 pts (2003)
Freo: 77 (2007)
Geelong: 78 (2007)
Hawthorn: 100 (2007)
Melbourne: 105 (2005)
Roos: 124 (2003)
Richmond: 85 (2005)
St Kilda: 108 (2004)
Sydney: 92 (2006)
West Coast: 116 (2003)

I'm going to bed now......................

But b4 i do, i'm going to pray to whoever that when i wake up tomorrow morning, Pagan would have been [REDACTED] off from this club..................AS FAR AWAY AS POSSIBLE.............never to EVER return!

Jesus, Budda, Allah, Satan & Yoda..................................i'll be praying to em all!

Please god....................PLEASE!

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

I feel sick

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Cheats never prosper (except in the AFL)

What's scarier is that most of the teams on that list are teams that had been playing us for over 100 years before they got those results.

Trust me, if you go to the site and look up the full statistics, the number of times we feature in any team's top 5 will truly make you barf. There's probably just as many occasions that are number 2 or 3 on the lists as well. It's really disgraceful.

Can someone please get a copy of all this to Big Dick

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I see you watching me watching you.