Oh I'm sure he's well-aware of it. He just won't say it, is all.

Denis believes hes the best man for the job.... if Denis thinks that.. and Sticks thinks it too.. good enough for me...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

And if they think it, and that's good enough for Synbad, then it's good enough for me.

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NOW YOU'RE JUST SOME CLUB THAT I USED TO KNOW.

Maybe Denis' next horse should be called - It'sgoodenoughforSynnersit'sgoodforme

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

I dunno,

it is all pretty easy to get excited and want Denis out now. But I thoguht one of the best posts last week was from BlueVain. We are playing the kids, and we are letting them stay on the ground to learn from their mistakes. How many bad decisions did Bower and Kennedy make yesterday? Heaps... but for the most part they were allowed to stay on the ground and learn from them. That's what I've been wanting to see all season.

The other problem is this... if we have made a basic decision to have Voss as coach (as the jungle drums suggest), then what do we do if we sack Denis now? Put Ratten in his place for 6 weeks and then say to a club legend that sorry, but we've got another bloke coming in to take over the position? It is just an awkward one for the club.

Anyway, I also want Denis gone. But another 6 mind-numbingly boring and inept displays probably won't kill me if it means a priority pick. I guess the only question to ask is what it will do to the young blokes in the team. I'm hoping they will be strong enough to rebound from it in future seasons under Voss (or whoever).

Which explains was Shaun Grigg was dropped for Bannister. It was rightly proven that Grigg was not familar with the pace of the game after being caught out 3 times against the Dees.

Dropping him was not the answer and whilst I have been an advocate for Pagan to be booted out at season's end so that we can be assured of Pick 1, I am not sure what damage we are doing to the players that we have on our list.

I know I am being damaged by watching this week in week out.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

You see DUC,

I think Grigg is a slightly different matter. My guess is that with the footy he has missed that he needs gametime. In the situation we had this week with Fev coming back in we had one player who needed to go back, and probably the player who stood to benefit most from a run in the Bullants was Grigg (to build up match fitness). I expect he'll get picked again soon. Russell is a different story - is his development helped or hindered in teh Bullants? A tougher question and one to which i don't have an answer.

In the end, it is all semantics. I agree Pagan needs to go. I guess that it is down to individual perspective as to how much damage he is going to do to the kids over 6 weeks. On balance, I don't think it will be much, but I definitely hear the views of some that it could cause greater problems down the track (even though I don't fully agree).

Yeah players are getting game time now.
But theyre completely undrilled.
Theyre standing at the wrong spots.
There are no set ups on the ground.

Thats ok if they were playing their mates at the park but theyre playing other teams that ARE WELL DRILLED!

there just isnt enough planning put into the players roles.

I reckon Pagan has them up as cannonfodder.
Its actually killing me watching players not knowing what to do. Looking confused and not having a plan to play with.
Now people might argue that our players are "dumb".. that theyre not playing to instructions.. Thats absolute bullshit!!!..
Pagans message has not been understood for five years with probably about eighty players .
Maybe we need a code breaker at the club???

Maybe Pagan should just leave ... like a man!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Synbad is right.

We have the most uneducated group of players in the AFL. We are so strategically bereft.

They don't understand modern football.

Has anyone else noticed how our players just amble through games? Apart from their usual spirited glimpses they coast along watching the game as opposed to wanting to make the play. Pagan's message is not getting through to the players. This is proven by our weekly hammerings.

In the past Pagan has refrained from "berating the players" as he states it would achieve nothing. It is very obvious that his softly, softly, I'm everyones friend attitude hasn't achieved results from the players.

For heaven's sake, get some mongrel and get stuck into a few of them (ala Rodney Eade, David Parkin, Ron Barassi) and tell them their playing for their futures. I'm convinced the game has passed Pagan by. We must get a younger, recently retired player (see McKenna, Ratten) in now and give him some time to settle into the role and put players on notice.

And let's spend a summer on foot and hand skills. Too many times we see handballs to team mates' feet and kicks that go straight to opposition players. How do some of these players make the grade. Are our recruiters that bereft at spotting talented players. Maybe I'm too harsh and players with basic skills are just not there.

I'm hopeful Dick Pratt will not allow the Football Department to procrastinate too much longer. Action! Now!

Tony Morwood on SEN before the game said that Ted Richards learnt more about what it taked to be an AFL footballer in 6 months at Sydney than in his career with Essendon*. That shows Sydney puts work into every player on the list and tries to get everyone better. I don't think its something Carlton does too well atm. If you arent in the firsts, good luck to yourself

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T E A M

Just a question for all - how much responsibility lies with the assistant coaches for our non-drilled players and gameplan? That includes a prospective new coach Brett Ratten.

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17 4 10

It doesn't look like much action will be taken re: Pagan. This amazes me and has me wondering WTF is going on at our club. The DP mirage will begin to wear thin with supporters if we don't see some tangible changes made to the coaching department ASAP. Not at seasons end. IMO it will be too late and will also show total and utter weakness in decision making.

Getting sick of asking for ...sorry begging for the club to get rid of Pagan. Getting sick of caring about a place only the supporters seem to care about at the moment.

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" Koutoufides has taken the last quarter by the scruff of the neck..." Commentary Drew Morphett Last Qtr '99 Prelim. Pure Gold.

Thanks for the memories Kouta. You are and always will be a True Blue Carlton Legend. #43.

Seems the Board is content with continueing this loser mentality around the Club...Carlton continue to be a laughing stock amonst opposition supporters.

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James Hird and Essendon* FC - #FOREVERDRUGCHEATS

be patient !!!!!!!!!!!!!

whats another 7 games ?!?!?

the most important 7 losses in recent history culminating in endless joy for us all !!!

YIPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

The time is now

The funniest thing about this thread is that 6 people have voted for retaining Pagan.

The time is now

If we want the priority pick then we must keep Pagan on until the end of the season. This assures us of 7 losses culminating in the axing of Pagan, Picks 1 & 4 in the National Draft, appointment of a new coach creating a new lease of life around the place etc. etc

We need to be patient. Honorable losses if we can manage that would be great.

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WE ARE CARLTON, WE ARE ARROGANT AND WE LOVE IT!

The patience of many a Carlton supporter will be tested when we get smashed to the shizenhausen by Port in a few weeks.