TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Who would you favour as next Carlton coach?

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, I pose a simple question: what does Voss offer that Ratten does not?

Popular opinion is that Voss is over the line, and the job will be his if he so chooses. On what criteria, though, would Brett Ratten be seen as unsuitable or not up to scratch? In a straight head-to-head battle, where does Ratten lose points?

I know the club is now in the hands of some very capable operators, and I do trust their judgement, but I dearly hope that any of the key players have not been swept up in this undeniable media storm that currently surrounds Voss. There's a certain inevitability about the whole thing in the eyes of the football public, who I can't help but feel are shaping the decision making as much as anything (or anyone) else - or at the very least, making it a very simple decision to make.

Voss is simply unavoidable at the moment, and suffering extreme media saturation, and quite frankly, the more I hear him quizzed on his future, the more doubt creeps in. There's a certain, undefinably scripted and insincere tone to his words, but perhaps that just stems from sheer repetition, I don't know.

It would be a shame to see one of the club's favourite sons lost to us due to a belief that we need to be seen to out-do other suitors, to do the bold, brave, culture-changing thing by taking a punt on Voss, the flavour of the moment, the media darling, when Ratten may be just as viable an option (and still ticks the 'young coach to grow with the list' box). I would be disappointed if Ratten were not given every chance to be judged on the same criteria, or given the same opportunity to state his case, just because he's not the fashionable thing (in an industry currently so prone to following fads).

So, again: why Voss and not Ratten?

"But I did ask the players for an effort, and they gave me even more than that, so from my point of view, I'm ecstatic with that effort â€¦ It's just the way we go about it as a club and team. I just want to make sure in six weeks we see the spirit, the Carlton spirit, back in the place.

"Today was fantastic, the players' second, third and fourth efforts, their chasing and just wanting to compete. I can't ask any more than that."

The only form of coaching I've had my head around in the past 12 months has been my assistant role at the AIS under Alan McConnell and spending time alongside former teammate Alastair Lynch and some very smart and experienced people in Brisbane developing a corporate leadership program.

I do have a passion for high performance. The prospect of coaching in the AFL appeals enormously, too: to share the knowledge I've gained; to enjoy the adrenalin rush that comes with competition; to share the winning and losing, and being part of a team that puts everything on the line.

When? I don't know. But I'd be foolish not to at least explore whether any of the clubs currently looking for a coach would like to have me. But until I meet the interested parties, I can't tell them that this is what I want to do next year.

If we HAVE to have an untried coach, I would prefer to try and lure Buckley before Voss. This club-brawl thing doesn't auger well for Voss IMVHO. He is claiming provocation but the video shows him walking out the door and king hitting the bloke from side-on, almost from behind.
Buckley offers more for mine. He has been a great player and has no off-field issues, is stable, respected by the players of ALL teams and has a huge profile to present to prospective sponsors.
Having said all that, I don't think we should opt for a coach with no assistant experience. Let the club pick the best option. if it is Ratts, so be it. I also like Harvey. As a prospective coach, that is.

No to Voss!

Yes to Ratten!

These kids can play good footy, the games against Port & Footscray show that they are capable, which leads me back to attitude & commitment.

People have said that Dennis was just an employee & didn't embody Carlton, Voss will be no different, he will be just another bloke collecting a pay packet.

We need to restore the understanding of what it is to be a Carlton player, we need to restore the fabric & feel of the club, we need these blokes to be prepared to put themselves in harms way for each other, the club & for loyal supporters who love their club & ride every bump, kick every goal & feel the pain of every loss deep in their hearts.

We need a coach who can make us Carlton again & in my humble opinion the man is Ratten not Voss.

But I did ask the players for an effort, and they gave me even more than that, so from my point of view, I'm ecstatic with that effort â€¦ It's just the way we go about it as a club and team. I just want to make sure in six weeks we see the spirit, the Carlton spirit, back in the place.

"Today was fantastic, the players' second, third and fourth efforts, their chasing and just wanting to compete. I can't ask any more than that."

It will be very interesting to see how the boys back up this week.

Harvey had a first up win in Adelaide and then got thumped the following week. New Melbourne coach had a first up win and now have returned to the table.

I think Ratts has plenty to offer and so does Voss and the powers to be will sort through it all. Do not for a minute think that the club is persuaded by the media. Voss may be the golden boy at the moment but does anyone really doubt Pratt, Swann and Co?

If Voss is appointed it is because he was the best applicant.

I dare say if we get thumped over the next few weeks many will go cold on Ratts.

Gerard Healy on his program reckons Ratten is a done deal at carlton - just waiting to be stamped. :-D

With his connection to Greg Williams it sounds as though he might be on the money.

Author:	mjonc [ Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:42 pm ]
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Maybe Pagan might re-apply for his job after Collingwood was thumped by Brisbane also. Maybe last week we just lost to a team on fire PS: Joke. You can laugh!! On another note, what happens if Ratts takes on the job? Who would his assistants be?

Author:	Tractor Boy [ Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:57 pm ]
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If Buckley was never a Pie and stayed with Brisbane would he have captained ahead of Voss ? Just curious ..... All this talk about Vossy makes me think is Buckley on the same page ?? Bluey or Rats for me though..

Author:	Blue4ever [ Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:46 pm ]
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Interesting to hear Voss speak - He talks as if he has been offered the job - not once have I heard him say that if he does throw his hat in the ring he will need to be interviewed etc. Other candidates such as Bond, Libba, Ratts etc have said they want the top job and will be applying as Voss keeps saying he doesn't know if he wants to coach next year?????? It's as if he has already been offered the job and all he is doing is considering coaching Carlton or to remain in the media. My point is that I believe he has been offered the job and he is now weighing up to coach in 2008 or to stay in the media. If Voss is to coach in 2008 it will be with Carlton and no other club.

Author:	Ruckus [ Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:03 am ]
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Playing devil's advocate for a moment, I pose a simple question: what does Voss offer that Ratten does not? Popular opinion is that Voss is over the line, and the job will be his if he so chooses. On what criteria, though, would Brett Ratten be seen as unsuitable or not up to scratch? In a straight head-to-head battle, where does Ratten lose points? I know the club is now in the hands of some very capable operators, and I do trust their judgement, but I dearly hope that any of the key players have not been swept up in this undeniable media storm that currently surrounds Voss. There's a certain inevitability about the whole thing in the eyes of the football public, who I can't help but feel are shaping the decision making as much as anything (or anyone) else - or at the very least, making it a very simple decision to make. Voss is simply unavoidable at the moment, and suffering extreme media saturation, and quite frankly, the more I hear him quizzed on his future, the more doubt creeps in. There's a certain, undefinably scripted and insincere tone to his words, but perhaps that just stems from sheer repetition, I don't know. It would be a shame to see one of the club's favourite sons lost to us due to a belief that we need to be seen to out-do other suitors, to do the bold, brave, culture-changing thing by taking a punt on Voss, the flavour of the moment, the media darling, when Ratten may be just as viable an option (and still ticks the 'young coach to grow with the list' box). I would be disappointed if Ratten were not given every chance to be judged on the same criteria, or given the same opportunity to state his case, just because he's not the fashionable thing (in an industry currently so prone to following fads). So, again: why Voss and not Ratten?

Author:	Blue4ever [ Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:12 am ]
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Ruckus wrote: Playing devil's advocate for a moment, I pose a simple question: what does Voss offer that Ratten does not? Popular opinion is that Voss is over the line, and the job will be his if he so chooses. On what criteria, though, would Brett Ratten be seen as unsuitable or not up to scratch? In a straight head-to-head battle, where does Ratten lose points? I know the club is now in the hands of some very capable operators, and I do trust their judgement, but I dearly hope that any of the key players have not been swept up in this undeniable media storm that currently surrounds Voss. There's a certain inevitability about the whole thing in the eyes of the football public, who I can't help but feel are shaping the decision making as much as anything (or anyone) else - or at the very least, making it a very simple decision to make. Voss is simply unavoidable at the moment, and suffering extreme media saturation, and quite frankly, the more I hear him quizzed on his future, the more doubt creeps in. There's a certain, undefinably scripted and insincere tone to his words, but perhaps that just stems from sheer repetition, I don't know. It would be a shame to see one of the club's favourite sons lost to us due to a belief that we need to be seen to out-do other suitors, to do the bold, brave, culture-changing thing by taking a punt on Voss, the flavour of the moment, the media darling, when Ratten may be just as viable an option (and still ticks the 'young coach to grow with the list' box). I would be disappointed if Ratten were not given every chance to be judged on the same criteria, or given the same opportunity to state his case, just because he's not the fashionable thing (in an industry currently so prone to following fads). So, again: why Voss and not Ratten? Very good question but the same can be said about Bond, McKenna, Sumich etc We are not privy to the discussions that will be held between the club and the candidates so we need to trust the board on this one. I do agree however that from the outside Ratts also seems very capable. I'm sure the club will underatke the best possible recruitment process. I would not be feeling this way if we had the same people at the helm as we did last year this time.

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Author:	nytdog [ Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:45 am ]
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Thought Ratten's press conference was top class. I rate him more each time I hear him speak. I've been staying out of the coaching debate because I think all of the young coaches will do a good job, but I think my heart is with the Rat.

Author:	Kouta [ Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:06 am ]
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Can I change my vote to Ratten? Respect revived as Carlton responds to coach's call to arms Quote: "But I did ask the players for an effort, and they gave me even more than that, so from my point of view, I'm ecstatic with that effort â€¦ It's just the way we go about it as a club and team. I just want to make sure in six weeks we see the spirit, the Carlton spirit, back in the place. "Today was fantastic, the players' second, third and fourth efforts, their chasing and just wanting to compete. I can't ask any more than that." Blues get good vibes from Voss I'm keen, the question is: am I ready? - Michael Voss. Quote: The only form of coaching I've had my head around in the past 12 months has been my assistant role at the AIS under Alan McConnell and spending time alongside former teammate Alastair Lynch and some very smart and experienced people in Brisbane developing a corporate leadership program. I do have a passion for high performance. The prospect of coaching in the AFL appeals enormously, too: to share the knowledge I've gained; to enjoy the adrenalin rush that comes with competition; to share the winning and losing, and being part of a team that puts everything on the line. When? I don't know. But I'd be foolish not to at least explore whether any of the clubs currently looking for a coach would like to have me. But until I meet the interested parties, I can't tell them that this is what I want to do next year.

Author:	Blue Sombrero [ Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:13 am ]
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If we HAVE to have an untried coach, I would prefer to try and lure Buckley before Voss. This club-brawl thing doesn't auger well for Voss IMVHO. He is claiming provocation but the video shows him walking out the door and king hitting the bloke from side-on, almost from behind. Buckley offers more for mine. He has been a great player and has no off-field issues, is stable, respected by the players of ALL teams and has a huge profile to present to prospective sponsors. Having said all that, I don't think we should opt for a coach with no assistant experience. Let the club pick the best option. if it is Ratts, so be it. I also like Harvey. As a prospective coach, that is.

Author:	4everBlue [ Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:00 am ]
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I think that Ratten did a great job today for the future of the Carlton Football Club. Why? Simply by thinking outside the square a little and backing the young guys - something sadly missing from Pagan's coaching style. Jackson was backed against a champion, Betts had 20 odd touches in the midfield. Most importantly though, Ratten talked post-match positively about the efforts of the players. Even in narrow losses, that was not always the case with Pagan, unless it was the "they'll learn from it" crap after a belting. I hope that the club ignores the hype over Voss and gives the job to Ratten.

Author:	Goltzenberg [ Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:46 am ]
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Ratten for me now Hes won me over, was never a huge voss fan I dont really like the idea of bringing in Voss which needs a mentor. What if the mentor is frawley or grant thomas? IF you take voss u are pretty much taking another head coach on. The mentor will be passing his knowledge on. So you can all go get Voss, but when the guy needs a mentor which will influence voss's decisions, u have to interview two coaches really If ratten plays out this year well then l reckon we keep a fovourite club player rather then a coach that needs a mentor. This was the first time in a long time we didnt get thrashed by the Saints Go RATTS

Author:	ScottSaunders [ Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:22 am ]
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Blue Sombrero wrote: If we HAVE to have an untried coach, I would prefer to try and lure Buckley before Voss. This club-brawl thing doesn't auger well for Voss IMVHO. He is claiming provocation but the video shows him walking out the door and king hitting the bloke from side-on, almost from behind. Buckley offers more for mine. He has been a great player and has no off-field issues, is stable, respected by the players of ALL teams and has a huge profile to present to prospective sponsors. Having said all that, I don't think we should opt for a coach with no assistant experience. Let the club pick the best option. if it is Ratts, so be it. I also like Harvey. As a prospective coach, that is. agree, but eddie mcchins will never see Bucks in any capacity at Carlton. he would have a heart attack if he did and im positive, McChins would take a shot in the mouth if it meant Bucks didnt go to Carlton

Author:	dlb99 [ Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:58 am ]
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I too am big-time concerned about Voss. He was a fantastic player and leader, but so was Ratts. Voss's media work has not impressed me all that much in terms of game analysis, I believe Buckley's media work has been more impressive. Ratt's media interviews and post-match were great. He's been an assistant, he has couched a team outright. He bleeds blue. Vossy has been ummm-arring (do I this, do I that, let me think, I don't know about fire in belly, yada yada). This time last year Longmire was the media favourite. This year Voss is the media love child. We must ignore this year's media driven darling, it will always change. What happened to Longmire? I just want "THE BEST PERSON", one with the skills and fire for the job. Now is time not to experiment. Remember, Pagan was a big catch when we got him, we don't need to land a "big name". I favour Brett Ratten. I hope the decision makers are not being media driven. Dennis.

Author:	blues8182 [ Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:03 am ]
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blues8182 wrote: No to Voss! Yes to Ratten! These kids can play good footy, the games against Port & Footscray show that they are capable, which leads me back to attitude & commitment. People have said that Dennis was just an employee & didn't embody Carlton, Voss will be no different, he will be just another bloke collecting a pay packet. We need to restore the understanding of what it is to be a Carlton player, we need to restore the fabric & feel of the club, we need these blokes to be prepared to put themselves in harms way for each other, the club & for loyal supporters who love their club & ride every bump, kick every goal & feel the pain of every loss deep in their hearts. We need a coach who can make us Carlton again & in my humble opinion the man is Ratten not Voss. After Ratten's first game as coach & first press conference, I get the impression that he knows exactly what is required to rebuild this club & it doesn't just revolve around getting the next hot priority pick. This bloke understands that he needs to inject the Carlton "feel" into the joint, something that even some of our supporters have lost. When you listen to or read his press conference he clearly states that he wanted the blokes to have a crack & wasn't as concerned by the mistakes they made, but wants to see "the Carlton Spirit". Quote: But I did ask the players for an effort, and they gave me even more than that, so from my point of view, I'm ecstatic with that effort â€¦ It's just the way we go about it as a club and team. I just want to make sure in six weeks we see the spirit, the Carlton spirit, back in the place. "Today was fantastic, the players' second, third and fourth efforts, their chasing and just wanting to compete. I can't ask any more than that." This clearly says to me that he is the man for this particular time at Carlton. All the number one draft picks in the world won't make a scrap of difference untill the fabric of the club is rebuilt, it is a basic principle of any team sport theat you have to play as a team to be successful & the only way you will get any group of individuals to come together is by creating an atmosphere that a bloke will commit to heart & soul, an atmosphere that instills pride,respect, confidence, & a burning desire to give his all and more for his mates. That in my opinion is spirit, & once that spirit starts to surface the other things like leadership will follow on naturally, we will start to win those games that we've got oh so close to because the guys will find that little extra, get to that critical contest, lay a shepard, run run & run, make the takle stick, & with every one of those acts their confidence will grow & so will the skill level & ability to make the right decisons under pressure. We need a commited & passionate Carlton person to make these things happen. If we don't appoint Ratts I believe that we have missed a golden opportunity to put us on the path to becoming a great club again.

Author:	Blue4ever [ Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:02 pm ]
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It will be very interesting to see how the boys back up this week. Harvey had a first up win in Adelaide and then got thumped the following week. New Melbourne coach had a first up win and now have returned to the table. I think Ratts has plenty to offer and so does Voss and the powers to be will sort through it all. Do not for a minute think that the club is persuaded by the media. Voss may be the golden boy at the moment but does anyone really doubt Pratt, Swann and Co? If Voss is appointed it is because he was the best applicant. I dare say if we get thumped over the next few weeks many will go cold on Ratts.

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Author:	Rhys26 [ Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:05 pm ]
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Gerard Healy on his program reckons Ratten is a done deal at carlton - just waiting to be stamped. With his connection to Greg Williams it sounds as though he might be on the money.

Author:	Warby [ Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:15 pm ]
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Blue4ever wrote: It will be very interesting to see how the boys back up this week. Harvey had a first up win in Adelaide and then got thumped the following week. New Melbourne coach had a first up win and now have returned to the table. I think Ratts has plenty to offer and so does Voss and the powers to be will sort through it all. Do not for a minute think that the club is persuaded by the media. Voss may be the golden boy at the moment but does anyone really doubt Pratt, Swann and Co? If Voss is appointed it is because he was the best applicant. I dare say if we get thumped over the next few weeks many will go cold on Ratts. I hope we don't....but if we do; it'll just reiterate our need for a Ruckman.

Author:	TruBlueBrad [ Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:32 pm ]
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I'd still be happy with either Ratts or Voss.

Author:	Mark J [ Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:51 pm ]
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Rhys26 wrote: Gerard Healy on his program reckons Ratten is a done deal at carlton - just waiting to be stamped. With his connection to Greg Williams it sounds as though he might be on the money. What about the Brown Dog? Reckon he may have some influence as well

Author:	bluehotel [ Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:21 pm ]
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I wanna change my Voss vote to Ratten

Author:	blueman [ Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:17 pm ]
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Ratten is the man for the job. As was said previously : 'creating an atmosphere that a bloke will commit to heart & soul, an atmosphere that instills pride,respect, confidence, & a burning desire to give his all and more for his mates' As I have said previously, talent aside, the main reason we come good is that we have a group of players that love the coach and are happy to bleed blue blood for him... Ratten is the person who can do this.