TalkingCarlton :: View topic - After Tonight need to for the rest of the season

Wholesale selection of the kids aint gonna help. We were slaughtered in the center by guys like Mitchell, Lewis and Crawford. Guys who were so determined to get their hands on the pil first up, that winning the tap was irrelevant. We've got Carrazzo, Bentick and to a lesser degree Murphy trying to win the clearance at the moment and everyone else hovering waiting for the next possession. They believed their own hype and all of a sudden our blokes realised running and moving the ball quick is a difficult proposition when the opposition is running the other way. The smalls we have in the 2's are not first dibs midfielders, they're gonna look bad if our clearance players are getting smashed and not feeding them.

We've seen Walker show some Burgoyne traits in the middle, Russell is finding himself at the bottom of packs more regularly and Gibbs will play inside when he gets the body, so it's not a case of needing to turn the list over, but rather waiting for the guys we have to get the size needed.

Setanta in the ruck is costing us. Having him there is putting Lance in an accountable position in backline, first move for the opposition coach is to drag him back to the goal line so average third talls can lead off him. We plonk a bloke infront of the contest and all of a sudden we're playing a fractured zone defense and midfielders are finding key forwards completely unmarked in front of goals. Lance is okay on a back flank, he makes good decisions and has good disposal, but no team is going to allow him to do this.

Ackland is not a very good footballer, but he's ours for three years; Barney retired before time and he was the one who was available. He needs to be rucked in the middle for as much as possible, wear him out not Carlos.

Saddington is just ok, but what he can give us over Paul Bower is small imo. Bower is a player who is suffering in the VFL because he can be unaccountable and run off with reasonable results, whereas he'll be butchered in the AFL if he does this, and the fact is, he's too slow to have this as his game, he needs to play tall and tight.

Edwards can come in on a forward flank, he's very good at gound level and I'm confident his game will be successful at AFL level. Play Lance in the forward line and Waite as the swingman.

Author:	frank dardew [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:43 am ]
Post subject:	After Tonight need to for the rest of the season
be bolder with selection -gotta try Sake in the ruck- he cant do any worse -Anderson Kennedy Hartlett need to play - others edwards grigg jackson etc when fit must get a taste -need Eddie running amok in forward line

Author:	Rhys26 [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: After Tonight need to for the rest of the season
frank dardew wrote: be bolder with selection -gotta try Sake in the ruck- he cant do any worse -Anderson Kennedy Hartlett need to play - others edwards grigg jackson etc when fit must get a taste -need Eddie running amok in forward line Our MC are weak as piss. They will probably take the easy option and drop Saddington and Blackwell. If they had any balls the following would get dropped: Whitnall Saddington Ackland Houlihan Kouta

Author:	Synbad [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:48 am ]
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Would you drop the current best and fairest ALL Australian current captain for them would you???

Author:	Jarusa [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:49 am ]
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God speed big frankie (from an athiest!).

Author:	frank dardew [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:54 am ]
Post subject:	Synbad
Yes if his form deteriorates and he doesnt deserve a game but after tonight the first 2 that would be under the spotlight would be Ackland and Saddington -whilst they were not alone I thought they probably were the two worst on the night and followed closely by Lappin

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

After Tonight need to for the rest of the season http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16597	Page 1 of 2

Author:	verbs [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:57 am ]
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Unfortunately we don't have a lot of depth at all coming through the reserves. Definitely no-one who can improve our side.

Author:	Kouta [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:58 am ]
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Can someone give me the odds for dropping Kouta for Grigg when Shaun is fit Anderson has to come in for Houlihan if we get another game like that from him. Or Betts unless we want to improve Ryan's trade value.

Author:	Synbad [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:59 am ]
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I think Lance was worse than Saddington. At Least Saddington was in the play....

Author:	verbs [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:05 am ]
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We had our strongest available side playing tonight. 3rd v 13th...perhaps that's the gap.

Author:	blu944 [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:29 am ]
Post subject:
Wholesale selection of the kids aint gonna help. We were slaughtered in the center by guys like Mitchell, Lewis and Crawford. Guys who were so determined to get their hands on the pil first up, that winning the tap was irrelevant. We've got Carrazzo, Bentick and to a lesser degree Murphy trying to win the clearance at the moment and everyone else hovering waiting for the next possession. They believed their own hype and all of a sudden our blokes realised running and moving the ball quick is a difficult proposition when the opposition is running the other way. The smalls we have in the 2's are not first dibs midfielders, they're gonna look bad if our clearance players are getting smashed and not feeding them. We've seen Walker show some Burgoyne traits in the middle, Russell is finding himself at the bottom of packs more regularly and Gibbs will play inside when he gets the body, so it's not a case of needing to turn the list over, but rather waiting for the guys we have to get the size needed. Setanta in the ruck is costing us. Having him there is putting Lance in an accountable position in backline, first move for the opposition coach is to drag him back to the goal line so average third talls can lead off him. We plonk a bloke infront of the contest and all of a sudden we're playing a fractured zone defense and midfielders are finding key forwards completely unmarked in front of goals. Lance is okay on a back flank, he makes good decisions and has good disposal, but no team is going to allow him to do this. Ackland is not a very good footballer, but he's ours for three years; Barney retired before time and he was the one who was available. He needs to be rucked in the middle for as much as possible, wear him out not Carlos. Saddington is just ok, but what he can give us over Paul Bower is small imo. Bower is a player who is suffering in the VFL because he can be unaccountable and run off with reasonable results, whereas he'll be butchered in the AFL if he does this, and the fact is, he's too slow to have this as his game, he needs to play tall and tight. Edwards can come in on a forward flank, he's very good at gound level and I'm confident his game will be successful at AFL level. Play Lance in the forward line and Waite as the swingman.

Author:	gsker1 [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:32 am ]
Post subject:
Our ruck division is absolutely copping a flogging. We are getting destroyed out of the middle and not giving out backline any rest. Ackland is not a 1st choice ruckman. I thought Bentick was useless last night and I haven't really seen much good of him of late. He needs to be dropped

Author:	keogh [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:55 am ]
Post subject:
blu944 wrote: Wholesale selection of the kids aint gonna help. We were slaughtered in the center by guys like Mitchell, Lewis and Crawford. Guys who were so determined to get their hands on the pil first up, that winning the tap was irrelevant. We've got Carrazzo, Bentick and to a lesser degree Murphy trying to win the clearance at the moment and everyone else hovering waiting for the next possession. They believed their own hype and all of a sudden our blokes realised running and moving the ball quick is a difficult proposition when the opposition is running the other way. The smalls we have in the 2's are not first dibs midfielders, they're gonna look bad if our clearance players are getting smashed and not feeding them. We've seen Walker show some Burgoyne traits in the middle, Russell is finding himself at the bottom of packs more regularly and Gibbs will play inside when he gets the body, so it's not a case of needing to turn the list over, but rather waiting for the guys we have to get the size needed. Setanta in the ruck is costing us. Having him there is putting Lance in an accountable position in backline, first move for the opposition coach is to drag him back to the goal line so average third talls can lead off him. We plonk a bloke infront of the contest and all of a sudden we're playing a fractured zone defense and midfielders are finding key forwards completely unmarked in front of goals. Lance is okay on a back flank, he makes good decisions and has good disposal, but no team is going to allow him to do this. Ackland is not a very good footballer, but he's ours for three years; Barney retired before time and he was the one who was available. He needs to be rucked in the middle for as much as possible, wear him out not Carlos. Saddington is just ok, but what he can give us over Paul Bower is small imo. Bower is a player who is suffering in the VFL because he can be unaccountable and run off with reasonable results, whereas he'll be butchered in the AFL if he does this, and the fact is, he's too slow to have this as his game, he needs to play tall and tight. Edwards can come in on a forward flank, he's very good at gound level and I'm confident his game will be successful at AFL level. Play Lance in the forward line and Waite as the swingman. Agree with some things you say but playing Whitnall Saddington Houlihan Bannister Ackland Lappin Kouta is pointless because they are either passed it or not good enough. What is Ackland on money wise for the next 2 years. I amsure if our healthier finances we can pay him out becuase he is useless. Admit we [REDACTED] up selecting him on a 3 year deal. Yep playing young kids will see them smashed for a time. So flower what. If they are mentally up to it they will cope. You can only give them a go and see what happens. Hawthorn did it and look at them now. The longer we play the above guys the further we dont progress. Its over for them. Have our MC got the balls to do the right thing for the future.

Author:	Lace Out [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:45 pm ]
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We need to make sure we keep developing the kids correctly. & Pick 2 in this years draft would ensure we get the best available midfielder in the upcoming draft, or kKP depending on who richmond take...

Author:	TwinOne [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:21 pm ]
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We looked really slow last night... even old man Smith and old man Crawford were running the lines with an opponent more than 5 mtrs away blowing hard... meanwhile our players (including Murphy a couple of times) were run down when they were trying to run and carry. Not to mention their really fast players like Bateman, Ladson and Sewell. Simpson, in particular was disappointing for me as he was supposed to be one of our quickest, but he was doing a lot of ball watching last night. We still have a long way to go. Twinone

Author:	Warby [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:40 pm ]
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A ruckman of at least 200cm as they had last night....two of them....(and they were both high project type draft picks too).....and we need leg speed ....like Alwyn Davey.....picked up cheaply by Essendon*.

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Author:	Wild Blue Yonder [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:28 pm ]
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The thing about a kid like Lewis for Hawks is that Hawthorn actually played him almost immediately after selecting him in the draft. No wonder he's clued up on how to get the pill. Not playing the kids is not proving anything. It is not giving them experience, it is not finding out if they're any good, it's crap. The game is fast, it isn't as rough and tumble anymore so you don't need the hard body to survive as much. Sure they'll run out of steam because of lack of aerobic capacity - maybe then they could jog up and down the wing with Ackland and Lance. If you don't play the kids when we are rock bottom, then even teams like Richmond will pass us by in a few years because just like Lewis, they'll have games under the belt. Playing muppets just gives us the muppet show every week.

Author:	From The Outer [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:00 pm ]
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TwinOne wrote: We looked really slow last night... even old man Smith and old man Crawford were running the lines with an opponent more than 5 mtrs away blowing hard... meanwhile our players (including Murphy a couple of times) were run down when they were trying to run and carry. Not to mention their really fast players like Bateman, Ladson and Sewell. Simpson, in particular was disappointing for me as he was supposed to be one of our quickest, but he was doing a lot of ball watching last night. We still have a long way to go. Twinone Last night was a carbon copy of the Geelong game....almost down to the winning margin. It is quite simple really......any side that is prepared to run its guts out against Carlton will blitz us. We have too many lazy players who are not prepared to chase when we don't have it and not prepared to do the "gut-busting" running when we do. JR was the only player that chased to any effect last night.

Author:	Blue4ever [ Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:40 am ]
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Setanta has to go back - out Saddington Aisake needs to come in. Ideally you would wait until next year but no good destroying Setanta, get him back in the defence. Houlihan - To play forward of the wing and NEVER play in defence. In fact I would drop/trade him. Watching some of the hardnuts we had in the 70's and 80's it make me sick watching him running around on the fringes of each contest. I don't give a flower that he has the occasional good skills. We are in the comp to win premierships and his type will not allow us to achieve this. Lance - limited pre season and is not 100% fit - FACT, give him the rest of the year. This will allow us to try out Hartlett. We need to make a decision on Hartlett at the end of the year and you would have to say he hasn't been tried in the seniors to know. Do not judge him on his performance in the Bullants. Bentick - I admire this guy he gives 110% but he is too slow - please do not compare him to Williams or Mitchell at the Hawks. Being so slow you need excellent vision and skill and unfortunatey all he has in his tool box is that he is a good tackler. To survive in todays modern game you need much more. Bentick has had his chance - his spot should be given to Blackwell so we can see what he can offer for a full game. Carrazzo has proven he can find the ball but please tell him to use the first option. Tell him not be to cute - he never will be a Hird or a Mitchell. He has come on big time and is contributing but he needs to know his limitations. His kicking style is so poor, he drops the ball with both hands from almost chest high allowing the ball ball to change direction before he makes connection with his foot. Overall he has proved that he knows where to go and get the footy. We must use the Hawks as the benchmark because they will dominate in the next few years. They still have some great youngsters that did not play Friday night. There list is VERY good.

Author:	DesEnglish [ Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:
Saddington was terrible last night. Too many times he stood watching while his player took the easiest of marks. I didn't even realise Whitnal played! Houlihan is way too soft and Bentck lacks class. At some stage this year I'd like to see Saddington swapped for Hartlett Whitnall for Kennedy, Houlihan for Anderson and Bentick swapped for a rotation of Jackson, Grigg and Edwards/Benjamin. Special mention for Ackland for being the most useless excuse for anything ever. His tapping the ball into the hawks goal square in the last quatter almost resluted in me being thrown out for abusive language.

Author:	fmurphy30 [ Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:52 pm ]
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Pagan has a problem in that Pratt publicly gave the criteria for his retention (10 wins) and the long term benefit of the club will not be served in chasing this. That said, we can't play all kids although some changes are overdue. Its obvious that Pagan is a massive fan of Bentick and his tackling is great, but he is slow and his ball gathering and use is not special. He may have a long term future, but he needs to find more pace or more quality ball. It might be time that he has a week in the magoos so that Blackwell can have a week with some quality time on the ground. Houlihan does not work hard enough defensively and should be played at half forward if at all. I would trade him at years end for anything. Occasionally classy but has led afl for clangers I think for 2 years running. Lappin probably had his worst game for Carlton, but recent form has been good. He should stay. Lance is a worry. If hes not fit, then rest him and/or get surgery. His absence is not going to cost us a flag. Saddington and Bannister playing for future and maybe deserve 3 or 4 more games to see if they stay or go. If either arent playing by round 17, we know how that will turn out. Grigg and Benjamin have missed half a season to injury. Want to see them play, but no hurry. Last few weeks of season maybe. Definitely need to see more of the likes of Hartlett, Edwards, Bower, Raso and Jackson before end of the year as one or more might be in the gun for delist or trade. Only possibly Hartlett (SA) and Bower (WA) might have mid-low draft pick currency, but ideally we want to keep and develop our own draft talent, rather than someone elses (Ackland, Cloke, Bannister, Saddington, Teague etc)