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The truth - according to the experts
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16592
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Author:  Bluebernz [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  The truth - according to the experts

In the past, I've always made it a point to avoid this site 24 hours after a devastating loss.... especially after a 100 point thumping!!

But tonight, I'm going to relay a few words from tonight's 3aw broadcast.


Tony Shaw

- Lance should never, ever play in the backline again. He should be playing elsewhere up the ground.... what that position is, I really don't know.


Robert Walls

- (referring to both Whitnall and Saddington) If you can't run in the modern game, you can't play!!

- (and then later) awww Lance.... slow as treacle......


add this to the comments made by Tim Watson 2 weeks ago during our win against the Doggies:

- If you dont have athleticism in the modern game you just can't play good, sustainable football.

Author:  Pafloyul [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:29 pm ]
Post subject: 

It is true. Astute athletes make the best modern footballers, like it or loath it.

Author:  Mark J [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:36 pm ]
Post subject: 

I pose this Q.
How will DP sleep tonight :shock: :shock: :shock:

Author:  Robert Heatley [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:46 pm ]
Post subject: 

After seeing the speed and strength of Hawthorn tonight, a couple of our not so fast midfielders might not sleep too well tonight.

Author:  Dodo27 [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:49 pm ]
Post subject: 

Mark J wrote:
I pose this Q.
How will DP sleep tonight :shock: :shock: :shock:



Denis is one of those guys who never takes full responsibility for any Loss...The guy either has some sort of a memory Loss or just lives his coaching life in Denial all the times...


I havnt watched his post conference, but the usual excuses will be presented... he just reads them off a Paper he prepared 3 years a go

Author:  chubbyruss [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:54 pm ]
Post subject: 

Mark J wrote:
I pose this Q.
How will DP sleep tonight :shock: :shock: :shock:


Pretty well I would imagine. His Superanuation is growing by the week :wink:

Author:  Rhys26 [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:16 am ]
Post subject: 

Dodo27 wrote:
Mark J wrote:
I pose this Q.
How will DP sleep tonight :shock: :shock: :shock:



Denis is one of those guys who never takes full responsibility for any Loss...The guy either has some sort of a memory Loss or just lives his coaching life in Denial all the times...


I havnt watched his post conference, but the usual excuses will be presented... he just reads them off a Paper he prepared 3 years a go


He blamed the loss on Telstra dome. :?
Hopefully Hawthorn convinced our MC that the game is all about speed.
The following players don't possess speed and probably need to be moved on:
Whitnall
Saddington
Bentick (love the way he plays but the gap between him and Mitchell is the length of the Flemington straight)
Blackwell
Ackland
Kouta

In todays game you cant carry 6 guys that dont have the leg speed

Author:  Synbad [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:35 am ]
Post subject: 

Of all those blokes id keep Bentick and Blackers.
The rest can leave ....

Author:  Donstuie [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:37 am ]
Post subject: 

I agree that Bentick deserves to stay. Yes, he's slow and his delivery isn't the best, but he tries his guts out every week and the fact that he leads the tackling for the league is nothing to gawk at. I seem to remember another slow shortarse who's only claim to fame was tackling, and he won a brownlow and is now an assistant coach of ours.

Author:  Loyal Carltonian [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:31 am ]
Post subject: 

I agree with Synbad.

As for Lance Whitnall he would have to be the worst selection as Captain in our history. Move him on at season's end and appoint Nick Stevens as captain.

We are all hurting at the moment but I can assure you there is one Mr.Dick Pratt who is feeling the same way and won't tolerate rubbish like this.

Denis Pagan needs a miracle to keep his job despite the encouraging signs of the last month.

Off field things are starting to take shape for the better and by season's end big decisions will be made in regards to coaching and playing personnel.

Author:  Rambo Stallone [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:32 am ]
Post subject: 

Synbad wrote:
Of all those blokes id keep Bentick and Blackers.
The rest can leave ....
I agree those two players are not quick but you need extra midfielders in the team to give the elite a rest and in future drafts these guys will probably take both these 2 spots when they reach like 100 games like Darren Hulme.

Author:  4thchicken [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:54 am ]
Post subject: 

some interesting snippets in the media
Quote:
Another concern is the form of skipper Lance Whitnall, who has been unable to train properly for five weeks because of a knee injury.

Whitnall finished last night's match on the bench but Pagan said he did not need surgery.


All I can say is whitnall should have been rested for his long term benefit - what makes it really galling though is that Pagan decided to play whitnall in the back half on atheletic power forwards (this week and last) - if he cant run properly due to injury why make him chase opposition players who are naturally more atheletic? FFS put him deep forward where he would contribute at least a couple goals/game. Pisspoor injury management/coaching.

Quote:
"We haven't played well here. We probably need to pick personnel who will probably handle it a bit better," Pagan said.
- blaming the dome? we played well here just a week beforehand.

Quote:
The Blues are likely to persist with their high-scoring game plan, although Pagan admitted that philosophy wouldn't be in place if his team was a genuine finals contender.

"We have tried every possible way with our blokes. We could put numbers behind the ball. We just don't use it well enough," he said.


way to inject confidence into the team - we have used it well enough the past couple of weeks and indeed earlier in the season - there is no way we should have lost by 100.

Quote:
"I think we got a little bit in front of ourselves," Pagan said.

"You are horrified to see everybody writing the Blues up. We are a young team; we are growing.

"It's easy for me to say this, but I genuinely think we got in front of ourselves.

:roll: yup - so much better if all the press label us as shit and that our list is made of D-grade players. Tell me how we got 35k members again? - thats right, by projecting a positive image. Having our players/team written up is actually good for the club - it is the coaching staffs responsibility to ensure they dont get ahead of themselves.

Author:  Taff [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:47 am ]
Post subject: 

4thchicken wrote:
some interesting snippets in the media
Quote:
Another concern is the form of skipper Lance Whitnall, who has been unable to train properly for five weeks because of a knee injury.

Whitnall finished last night's match on the bench but Pagan said he did not need surgery.


All I can say is whitnall should have been rested for his long term benefit - what makes it really galling though is that Pagan decided to play whitnall in the back half on atheletic power forwards (this week and last) - if he cant run properly due to injury why make him chase opposition players who are naturally more atheletic? FFS put him deep forward where he would contribute at least a couple goals/game. Pisspoor injury management/coaching.

What he said!

Quote:
"We haven't played well here. We probably need to pick personnel who will probably handle it a bit better," Pagan said.
- blaming the dome? we played well here just a week beforehand.

Quote:
The Blues are likely to persist with their high-scoring game plan, although Pagan admitted that philosophy wouldn't be in place if his team was a genuine finals contender.

"We have tried every possible way with our blokes. We could put numbers behind the ball. We just don't use it well enough," he said.


way to inject confidence into the team - we have used it well enough the past couple of weeks and indeed earlier in the season - there is no way we should have lost by 100.

Quote:
"I think we got a little bit in front of ourselves," Pagan said.

"You are horrified to see everybody writing the Blues up. We are a young team; we are growing.

"It's easy for me to say this, but I genuinely think we got in front of ourselves.

:roll: yup - so much better if all the press label us as shit and that our list is made of D-grade players. Tell me how we got 35k members again? - thats right, by projecting a positive image. Having our players/team written up is actually good for the club - it is the coaching staffs responsibility to ensure they dont get ahead of themselves.

Author:  mjonc [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:08 pm ]
Post subject: 

Rhys26 wrote:
Dodo27 wrote:
Mark J wrote:
I pose this Q.
How will DP sleep tonight :shock: :shock: :shock:



Denis is one of those guys who never takes full responsibility for any Loss...The guy either has some sort of a memory Loss or just lives his coaching life in Denial all the times...


I havnt watched his post conference, but the usual excuses will be presented... he just reads them off a Paper he prepared 3 years a go


He blamed the loss on Telstra dome. :?
Hopefully Hawthorn convinced our MC that the game is all about speed.
The following players don't possess speed and probably need to be moved on:
Whitnall
Saddington
Bentick (love the way he plays but the gap between him and Mitchell is the length of the Flemington straight)
Blackwell
Ackland
Kouta

In todays game you cant carry 6 guys that dont have the leg speed


Hey Rhys, hate to break the news, but the MC have been talking about the injuries to our quick young guys for weeks. Can't add speed if they are injured.

Author:  Synbad [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:37 pm ]
Post subject: 

mjonc wrote:
Rhys26 wrote:
Dodo27 wrote:
Mark J wrote:
I pose this Q.
How will DP sleep tonight :shock: :shock: :shock:



Denis is one of those guys who never takes full responsibility for any Loss...The guy either has some sort of a memory Loss or just lives his coaching life in Denial all the times...


I havnt watched his post conference, but the usual excuses will be presented... he just reads them off a Paper he prepared 3 years a go


He blamed the loss on Telstra dome. :?
Hopefully Hawthorn convinced our MC that the game is all about speed.
The following players don't possess speed and probably need to be moved on:
Whitnall
Saddington
Bentick (love the way he plays but the gap between him and Mitchell is the length of the Flemington straight)
Blackwell
Ackland
Kouta

In todays game you cant carry 6 guys that dont have the leg speed


Hey Rhys, hate to break the news, but the MC have been talking about the injuries to our quick young guys for weeks. Can't add speed if they are injured.

Bower is quicker and provides more run than Lance or Kouta.
Edwards the same.
You can still inject more pace in the side .. and Benjamin is available.

Author:  beowulf [ Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:23 am ]
Post subject: 

Expect us to be looking for pace in midfielders at the draft this year. In fact, our trend has been to go for the more athletic option each time in the last couple of drafts, and I don't expect that to change. And it does put pressure on some of our slower players - especially Whitnall if his knee remains a question.
We are the tallest list this year - I don't expect that to change. But over the next couple of years I expect us to be amongst the fastest as well.

Author:  Synbad [ Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:26 am ]
Post subject: 

beowulf wrote:
Expect us to be looking for pace in midfielders at the draft this year. In fact, our trend has been to go for the more athletic option each time in the last couple of drafts, and I don't expect that to change. And it does put pressure on some of our slower players - especially Whitnall if his knee remains a question.
We are the tallest list this year - I don't expect that to change. But over the next couple of years I expect us to be amongst the fastest as well.

Couple the pace with skill...
We lack skill...

Natural footballers.
I think weve gone for the tall athlete players way too much.
The next Koutas.
There is only one Kouta....

We need more natural footballers who can run.

Author:  JK [ Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:37 am ]
Post subject: 

agree with synners
the last few years we have been caught in the 'david mundy- steven dodd' recruiting mould- tall rangy types who have a good fitness base but arent explosive
i would have dearly loved an andrew swallow or jordan lewis or shannon hurn - gun in an under FOOTBALLERS as opposed to continuously trying to turn blokes into Kouta

Author:  Blues21 [ Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:43 am ]
Post subject: 

The Hawks showed us what long term planning is all about.

There are examples throughout the competition of young players being given opportunity and flourishing. Were they all "ready" or did thier clubs take the lT view?

The following players need to be played for the rest of the season to various extents:

Mark Austin, Clinton Benjamin, Shaun Grigg & Jake Edwards (give them all at least 2 games);

Sean Hampson - we need to throw him in at the deep end and see what he can do. Ackland is useless and Santy is out of position and struggling. If this is too bold a move for the club then promote Asaky and lets see what he can do.

Adam Hartlett - should have been in from the start of the year.

Paul Bower - gets minimal game time then is droped.

Josh Kennedy - the future, say no more.

The club needs to understand that we are 2-3 years away and winning 5-7 this year will do us absolutely no good.

I'd rather see the above given a real go, not win another game and grab the priority at season's end. Longer term we will be better off!

Author:  Wangers [ Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:06 pm ]
Post subject: 

The heat will be on the recruiting department from next year onwards I'd say.

2004 was the first opportunity to start building the list using the draft and the recruiting department should be judged accordingly.

This post is not intended to be critical, but the blow torch starts from 08 on these guys.

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