TalkingCarlton :: View topic - I hate to alarm you but....

Of the 8 first and second round draft choices for Carlton over the past 3 seasons, Dennis Pagan has deemed just two of these guys good enough to get a game against the Doggies.

First & Second Round Picks
Murphy - playing
Gibbs - playing
Jordan Russell
Adam Hartlett
Josh Kennedy
Paul Bower
Shaun Hampson
Shaun Grigg (injured)

But at the same time, he has selected 3 of the worst 5 players on our list - none of whom would form part of any Carlton Premiership team. Why are we playing Wiggins, Bannister & Saddington with our best talent running around in the VFL. So short sighted and he will never change.

That was in the 80s. Slightly different kettle of fish now.

sticksaftersiren87 wrote:

All I see there is:

Out of the box gun
Out of the box gun
Shy kid building in confidence
Strategic omission after years of injury
Strategic omission
Athletic tall still trying to find a position
Developing ruckman
Injured ball winner who'd probably be playing right now otherwise

Talent alone does not dictate selection; application comes into play.

Think of it like an equation:

talent x application = chance for selection

True different coaches may perceive and weight both talent and application differently, but there's no denying that regardless of your talent, if you don't apply yourself: don't have a whine when you don't get a gig.

Meanwhile over at the Kennel:

Ryan Griffen - back in this week
Tom Williams
Jesse Wells
Shaun Higgins - playing
Dylan Addison - playing
Andrejs Everitt

But they continue to persist with hacks like Sam Power, Eagleton & Cameron Wight.

WHY DOGGIES, WHY WHY WHY

Sorry SAS87, I usually value what you have to contribute, and while on face value this looks deplorable, it's just not the case.

How can you compare us to the Kennel. We are in two totally different phases. The Doggies are nearing a challenge , we need to develop our kids. If it costs us a game or two due to 'application' , well , we need to teach our kids about it sooner or later. It may also help if they were allowed a bit of TOG to play their natural game rather than following an opposition player around the park or warming the bench.

HELLAS BLUE wrote:

Look no further of our distribution of kids already in the 22 for evidence of that.

You can blood all the kids if you like, but who's out there to educate them? Lead them? The runner??? :lol:

That's why experience counts, and we have precious little compared to any other team in the competition.

hartlett really needed to do more in his 8min 26sec on ground last week.

wiggler has been tried back pocket but gave away far too many free kicks due to his "enthusiasm"

Author:	sticksaftersiren87 [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:	I hate to alarm you but....
Of the 8 first and second round draft choices for Carlton over the past 3 seasons, Dennis Pagan has deemed just two of these guys good enough to get a game against the Doggies. First & Second Round Picks Murphy - playing Gibbs - playing Jordan Russell Adam Hartlett Josh Kennedy Paul Bower Shaun Hampson Shaun Grigg (injured) But at the same time, he has selected 3 of the worst 5 players on our list - none of whom would form part of any Carlton Premiership team. Why are we playing Wiggins, Bannister & Saddington with our best talent running around in the VFL. So short sighted and he will never change.

Author:	winfieldblue [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:13 pm ]
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best talent is an over exageration, they have potential with talent but best talent is going too far imo. from bullies reports russell should come back in next week.. so up to wiggler and banno to perform or make way

Author:	jimmae [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I hate to alarm you but....
sticksaftersiren87 wrote: Of the 8 first and second round draft choices for Carlton over the past 3 seasons, Dennis Pagan has deemed just two of these guys good enough to get a game against the Doggies. First & Second Round Picks Murphy - playing Gibbs - playing Jordan Russell Adam Hartlett Josh Kennedy Paul Bower Shaun Hampson Shaun Grigg (injured) But at the same time, he has selected 3 of the worst 5 players on our list - none of whom would form part of any Carlton Premiership team. Why are we playing Wiggins, Bannister & Saddington with our best talent running around in the VFL. So short sighted and he will never change. All I see there is: Out of the box gun Out of the box gun Shy kid building in confidence Strategic omission after years of injury Strategic omission Athletic tall still trying to find a position Developing ruckman Injured ball winner who'd probably be playing right now otherwise Talent alone does not dictate selection; application comes into play. Think of it like an equation: talent x application = chance for selection True different coaches may perceive and weight both talent and application differently, but there's no denying that regardless of your talent, if you don't apply yourself: don't have a whine when you don't get a gig. Meanwhile over at the Kennel: Ryan Griffen - back in this week Tom Williams Jesse Wells Shaun Higgins - playing Dylan Addison - playing Andrejs Everitt But they continue to persist with hacks like Sam Power, Eagleton & Cameron Wight. WHY DOGGIES, WHY WHY WHY Sorry SAS87, I usually value what you have to contribute, and while on face value this looks deplorable, it's just not the case.

Author:	malbi [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:15 pm ]
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I have JK in my dream team and I want to trade him.

Author:	BlueJean [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:09 pm ]
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But Pagan took the under 19s at north to something like 9 consecutive finals appearances...

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

I hate to alarm you but.... http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16423	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Donstuie [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:22 pm ]
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That was in the 80s. Slightly different kettle of fish now.

Author:	chubbyruss [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:22 pm ]
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..

Author:	BlueJean [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:29 pm ]
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Donstuie wrote: That was in the 80s. Slightly different kettle of fish now. Bugger! Maybe if the players were to listen to some of the music from that era we'd be fine. Or does Denis just hate losing his hair perhaps...?

Author:	HELLAS BLUE [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I hate to alarm you but....
jimmae wrote: sticksaftersiren87 wrote: Of the 8 first and second round draft choices for Carlton over the past 3 seasons, Dennis Pagan has deemed just two of these guys good enough to get a game against the Doggies. First & Second Round Picks Murphy - playing Gibbs - playing Jordan Russell Adam Hartlett Josh Kennedy Paul Bower Shaun Hampson Shaun Grigg (injured) But at the same time, he has selected 3 of the worst 5 players on our list - none of whom would form part of any Carlton Premiership team. Why are we playing Wiggins, Bannister & Saddington with our best talent running around in the VFL. So short sighted and he will never change. All I see there is: Out of the box gun Out of the box gun Shy kid building in confidence Strategic omission after years of injury Strategic omission Athletic tall still trying to find a position Developing ruckman Injured ball winner who'd probably be playing right now otherwise Talent alone does not dictate selection; application comes into play. Think of it like an equation: talent x application = chance for selection True different coaches may perceive and weight both talent and application differently, but there's no denying that regardless of your talent, if you don't apply yourself: don't have a whine when you don't get a gig. Meanwhile over at the Kennel: Ryan Griffen - back in this week Tom Williams Jesse Wells Shaun Higgins - playing Dylan Addison - playing Andrejs Everitt But they continue to persist with hacks like Sam Power, Eagleton & Cameron Wight. WHY DOGGIES, WHY WHY WHY Sorry SAS87, I usually value what you have to contribute, and while on face value this looks deplorable, it's just not the case. How can you compare us to the Kennel. We are in two totally different phases. The Doggies are nearing a challenge , we need to develop our kids. If it costs us a game or two due to 'application' , well , we need to teach our kids about it sooner or later. It may also help if they were allowed a bit of TOG to play their natural game rather than following an opposition player around the park or warming the bench.

Author:	jimmae [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I hate to alarm you but....
HELLAS BLUE wrote: How can you compare us to the Kennel. We are in two totally different phases. The Doggies are nearing a challenge , we need to develop our kids. If it costs us a game or two due to 'application' , well , we need to teach our kids about it sooner or later. It may also help if they were allowed a bit of TOG to play their natural game rather than following an opposition player around the park or warming the bench. Look no further of our distribution of kids already in the 22 for evidence of that. You can blood all the kids if you like, but who's out there to educate them? Lead them? The runner??? That's why experience counts, and we have precious little compared to any other team in the competition.

Author:	Jarusa [ Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:18 am ]
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Shit thread.

Author:	bluehammer [ Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:21 am ]
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hartlett really needed to do more in his 8min 26sec on ground last week.

Author:	Blue Sombrero [ Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I hate to alarm you but....
jimmae wrote: HELLAS BLUE wrote: How can you compare us to the Kennel. We are in two totally different phases. The Doggies are nearing a challenge , we need to develop our kids. If it costs us a game or two due to 'application' , well , we need to teach our kids about it sooner or later. It may also help if they were allowed a bit of TOG to play their natural game rather than following an opposition player around the park or warming the bench. Look no further of our distribution of kids already in the 22 for evidence of that. You can blood all the kids if you like, but who's out there to educate them? Lead them? The runner??? That's why experience counts, and we have precious little compared to any other team in the competition. That's the crux of it. If Bannister and Wiggo can provide a bitof hardness and experience that help Murphy and Gibbs get free to get the footy, they have done their jobs. What we lack most is players on the 50-100 game bracket and these are two. Playing kids for the sake of it is NOT the answer. We need a mix and with the clearout we have had over the past two seasons, there isn't a lot left to mix it with. When the young ones are good enough to force Wiggo, Saddington and Bannister out of the team, they will be ready to play. Until then, they have to do their apprenticeship like everybody else. Kennedy has has lots of opportunities and has fallen short so far. To drop him and give him more opportunity was and is a good move. The others will get their chance. And who knows, Wiggo might yet turn into the back pocket player we are looking for. He hasn't been tried there and when he plays he doesn't get much game time so we really don't know what he is or isn't capable of yet. He was a second round pick who played several years in the twos before he got a regular game. As yet he hasn't been given a position to call his own. He is a classic bench player who can come on and do anything Denis wants but just as he gets the pace of the game he gets dragged again until he has to fill another hole. Frankly I think he is better than a lot of people give him credit for. At 24, he is just getting to the peak of his physical form so now let's give him a role. If he fails, well and good but don't write him off on the back of the chances he has been given. His stats say 80 odd games but he hasn't had the minutes on the ground. If he really isn't up to it, one of the kids will push him out of the team. That's how footy works.

Author:	winfieldblue [ Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:07 am ]
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wiggler has been tried back pocket but gave away far too many free kicks due to his "enthusiasm"

Author:	nytdog [ Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:41 am ]
Post subject:
I watched the WC game again. Wiggo was very good. When he is on the field he doesn't do much wrong. Love to know why everyone hates him so much. Yes he's not the most talented guy in the world. But he's hard at it, he's got a decent footy brain, fairly quick and decent disposal. I think he is capable of being part of our future. We need the middle age players to provide support to the super talents (Walker, Gibbs, Murph etc) if we are to improve.

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Author:	budzy [ Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:25 am ]
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bluehammer wrote: hartlett really needed to do more in his 8min 26sec on ground last week. ...nah, actually it's quite sad

Author:	Blue Sombrero [ Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:36 am ]
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winfieldblue wrote: wiggler has been tried back pocket but gave away far too many free kicks due to his "enthusiasm" Thanks. Didn't know. I still reckon he is an option.

Author:	thrylos7 [ Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:20 pm ]
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I would like to congratulate Jordan and Wiggler for superb games today which assisted us in getting over the line

Author:	GodisNavyBlue [ Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:35 pm ]
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Wiggins did some nice things, got in the way a few times as well but was generally OK. Banno was great. Apart from generally nullifying Johnston his inclusion and his playmaking, also meant Gibbs was allowed further up the ground -- and boy, did we all see what the excitement was about with our no. 1 pick. NRS for sure...

Author:	kingkerna [ Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:48 pm ]
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Saddington was good early too.