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Do we have enough talent yet?
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Author:  hotspur [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Do we have enough talent yet
Our list is young but that doesnt mean experience will make us better.The problem I believe is our coach he has no management skills with young footballers.nor does he give them a go on the GROUND.Walker has been around 3 seasons ruined him by playing down back has he improved? Wiggins is a battler so is Bannister,Russell I am not confident he will go to the nextstep,Setanta is getting better weekly,Blackwell has poor disposal.

We need 3 players to make us a top 8 team

Ruckman-we are desperate for a decent ruckman
Midfielder we have Nick Stevens
Key Postion Backmen - a Dustin Fletcher type.

This draft will make or break us this year we cannot afford to make
any mistakes
Author:  bluebeard [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do we have enough talent yet
Ruckman-we are desperate for a decent ruckman

Yep...need to build one not buy one


Midfielder we have Nick Stevens

Yep...need to buy one (Del Santo or something) not build one


Key Postion Backmen - a Dustin Fletcher type.

Nup...need to teach what we got...they are better than what you think (Santa ,Bower, Ando and co)
Author:  DownUnderChick [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
The ruckman is the key - build one and the rest will fall into place.
Author:  buzzalenko [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do we have enough talent yet
bluebeard wrote:
Ruckman-we are desperate for a decent ruckman

Yep...need to build one not buy one




yes, but this takes time - what do we do in the meantime? I can't help but think we have got less value than expected from McLaren and Ackland at this stage. Can we expect some combination of these guys plus Aisake, Hampson, and Jacobs, to carry the load in 2008, given the lack of experience those young guys have at this stage?
Author:  bluebeard [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do we have enough talent yet
buzzalenko wrote:
bluebeard wrote:
Ruckman-we are desperate for a decent ruckman

Yep...need to build one not buy one




yes, but this takes time - what do we do in the meantime? I can't help but think we have got less value than expected from McLaren and Ackland at this stage. Can we expect some combination of these guys plus Aisake, Hampson, and Jacobs, to carry the load in 2008, given the lack of experience those young guys have at this stage?


True.

I believe any other coach in this galaxy would be playing Sake/ Hampson and Jacobs in the seniors to groom them.

Mclaren and ackland have been very bad recruits. Hopefully Icke and Swann can see that.

Cloke is being missed almost as much as stevo
Author:  buzzalenko [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
I agree with you - I just think we may have to recruit another stop-gap ruckman (unfortunately) at the end of this season to fill the gap that Ackland and McLaren were recruited to fill, while the young guys continue to develop. Hopefully one or more of Aisake, Hampson, and Jacobs can come through and be in the tradition of our great ruckmen of the past
Author:  Mordan [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do we have enough talent yet
bluebeard wrote:
I believe any other coach in this galaxy would be playing Sake/ Hampson and Jacobs in the seniors to groom them.


That's rubbish. Hampson and Jacobs are both raw and a long way off seniors (for different reasons). Aisake has probably got the physical development now, but is only in his third season of football. A few games this year as a learning experience sure, but no need to put too much pressure on him yet.

They're all in a position to benefit from "grooming" in the VFL. If anything I think a case could be made for one of them to play full games in the ruck in the VFL reserves.

The benefit they'd get watching the game race around them at AFL level would be pretty questionable. To say every other coach in the land would be doing so is rubbish.
Author:  bluebeard [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do we have enough talent yet
Mordan wrote:
bluebeard wrote:
I believe any other coach in this galaxy would be playing Sake/ Hampson and Jacobs in the seniors to groom them.


That's rubbish. Hampson and Jacobs are both raw and a long way off seniors (for different reasons). Aisake has probably got the physical development now, but is only in his third season of football. A few games this year as a learning experience sure, but no need to put too much pressure on him yet.

They're all in a position to benefit from "grooming" in the VFL. If anything I think a case could be made for one of them to play full games in the ruck in the VFL reserves.

The benefit they'd get watching the game race around them at AFL level would be pretty questionable. To say every other coach in the land would be doing so is rubbish.


I love it when your angry :-D

Ackland played his best game for the club last week but it was still insufficient.

It is obvious to me that he needs back up...from a ruckman...not CHF or CHB a ruckman.

Mordan are their any other fit ruckman on our current list?

I will answer that for you...no

There are 3 rookie ruckman...one being Sake.

Now Hamson and Jacobs might not be ripe but Sake is and other coaches would have the balls to play Sake...infact some coaches would have already dropped Ackland.

by the way...it is an opinion not gospel.

Keep your chin up champ 8)
Author:  Stefchook [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
One more draft with access to a genuine priority pick (and the other early picks that go with it), and a couple more elite young talents, and we should have enough overall talent to really go forward.

Results may not indicate it yet, but the upward direction has certainly begun.
Author:  azza? [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
My first post. :)

Seriously, I'm sick of losing but for some bizarre reason i still go to watch Carlton play. Week in, week out. I miss out on work to watch my team play even though i know we won't win.

When we play like absolute champions, it gets me excited. I personally feel that this year as been different. We have improved over last year, the stats may not reflect that but I think the list is getting better.

Whether we have enough talent or not... I think we have quality young players at the moment that will only get better with gaming experience. I love the club so much, one side of me wants one more year of the number 1 draft pick but the other side can't take the pain. I'm sure everyone here is SICK of losing to Collingwood. However, losing now means (hopefully) years of pleasure later. I just can't wait when in 2 or 3 years time when we are making finals and smashing Collingwood or Essendon* by 100 points all the time.

So after all those ramblings I feel we do have a talented list and have what it takes but more talent is always welcome, then again i do agree with Nytdog's post (somewhere) that high draft picks don't always mean talented players.

In the end, I love the club. So if all this disappointment and pain means we are successful for years and years then i can put up with it.

GO BLUES!!!! :)
Author:  Blue Sombrero [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Welcome to TC, Azza. Nice first post. Try to stay positive. Sometimes it's hard when those around us are all doom and gloom. We are a bit off the pace yet but the list is looking good and we are going to get a top 5 pick at worst this year.
The off-field problems seem to be on the way towards being solved, which is one reason we have been off the pace compared with the so-called 'rich' clubs. Now it's up to the football department to raise the bar.
Bring on the near future, I say.
Author:  azza? [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Obviously it may be a little hard to stay positive with the losses but there are some things that will never take the love of the Blues away from me.

1. It's Carlton but when you see stuff like Eddie Betts' Goal of the Year, Bryce Gibbs' No look handpass, Fev on fire kicking bags of goals or Andrew Walker so Kouta-eske (there are so many more players to mention) it's so damn hard not to get really excited for the future or pumped for the next big weekend of footy. It's a tradition my family and I have of constantly going to the footy and supporting the club and those players who wear the jumper with pride but i digress from the point of the topic.... :)

Surely when you talk Carlton it's not hard to be filled with so much pride and excitement you just want to talk someones ear off at how great the club is and will become.
Author:  Mark J [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
We need :1-MacIntosh from the Roos.
2-Dalsanto from the Aints.
3-Sewell from the Dawks
Then we'll be in the mix. :) :) :)
Author:  nytdog [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:57 am ]
Post subject: 
azza? wrote:
Obviously it may be a little hard to stay positive with the losses but there are some things that will never take the love of the Blues away from me.

1. It's Carlton but when you see stuff like Eddie Betts' Goal of the Year, Bryce Gibbs' No look handpass, Fev on fire kicking bags of goals or Andrew Walker so Kouta-eske (there are so many more players to mention) it's so damn hard not to get really excited for the future or pumped for the next big weekend of footy. It's a tradition my family and I have of constantly going to the footy and supporting the club and those players who wear the jumper with pride but i digress from the point of the topic.... :)

Surely when you talk Carlton it's not hard to be filled with so much pride and excitement you just want to talk someones ear off at how great the club is and will become.


Welcome to TC Azza, it's about bloody time! Nuch says she's loves your first post.
Author:  TruBlueBrad [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:08 am ]
Post subject: 
nytdog wrote:
azza? wrote:
Obviously it may be a little hard to stay positive with the losses but there are some things that will never take the love of the Blues away from me.

1. It's Carlton but when you see stuff like Eddie Betts' Goal of the Year, Bryce Gibbs' No look handpass, Fev on fire kicking bags of goals or Andrew Walker so Kouta-eske (there are so many more players to mention) it's so damn hard not to get really excited for the future or pumped for the next big weekend of footy. It's a tradition my family and I have of constantly going to the footy and supporting the club and those players who wear the jumper with pride but i digress from the point of the topic.... :)

Surely when you talk Carlton it's not hard to be filled with so much pride and excitement you just want to talk someones ear off at how great the club is and will become.


Welcome to TC Azza, it's about bloody time! Nuch says she's loves your first post.


Another brother nytdog? :)
Author:  nytdog [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:16 am ]
Post subject: 
cousin actually. He's a little champion too.
Author:  jenx [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:08 am ]
Post subject: 
Mark J wrote:
We need :1-MacIntosh from the Roos.
2-Dalsanto from the Aints.
3-Sewell from the Dawks
Then we'll be in the mix. :) :) :)


I think what you meant to say was:

1.Kreuzer
2. Cothchin
3. Vezpremi
8)
Author:  Mrs Caz [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
jenx wrote:
Mark J wrote:
We need :1-MacIntosh from the Roos.
2-Dalsanto from the Aints.
3-Sewell from the Dawks
Then we'll be in the mix. :) :) :)


I think what you meant to say was:

1.Kreuzer
2. Cothchin
3. Vezpremi
8)


That would be nice. :)
Author:  Pafloyul [ Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Gee you guys lack vision, this isn't about what we 'need' it's about what we 'want'….no, scrap that; the two are interchangeable.

Bluebeard, you depress me. We should not be leaving things to chance. I think one of our recruiting problems stems from the fact that we lack ambition. I say this time and time again; we are thinking in terms of plugging gaps. Do you wonder why the likes of Pendlebury, Birchall and Ryder do so well for their clubs? It's because they are good, better than most of our players of the same type. Their respective clubs recruiting managers were good enough to notice the raw talent and go with it; they trusted their instincts regardless of the immediate result or need. The irony is that it is paying dividends quicker than they would have hoped.

I don't know what everybody else’s version of 'need' is but if we are arrogant and stupid enough to think that we don't 'need' certain kinds of players just because we have some poor man's version running around in the twos or warming the bench then we will never be up to it. We ‘need’ to be greedy and ambitious and ‘want’ a lot more, only then will we be able to get the list we 'need'. Chasing needs only narrows your chances.

And another thing, you still have to use your draft picks wisely so it is virtually useless to compare clubs on the number of high draft picks they’ve had.
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