TalkingCarlton :: View topic - The remainder of the season

it would be nice to see the club acknowledge that what we have done for the first part of the season isn't working (in terms of winning) and so make some changes for the future.

Play JR somewhere else other than tagging - say a half-back flank, with a license for the team to use him as the link man. If he fails to get the ball or use it at least we learn, or are we saying that under Pagan JR will be a tagger.

Play Tex in the middle and forward - we know he can play in defense. Broaden his horizons.

Play Houla anywhere but deep in defense and never on their dangerous goal kickers.

Why not elevate Aisake or give Hampson a go? We are losing. What might change? Try it.

Play Fev at CHF and JK deep.

Play Benj (if fit)

play Grigg (when fit)

Play Raso (make a place for him to fit into)

Play Blackers for a few weeks in a row. :shock:

Leave Waite at CHB - here its a matter (same with Setanta) of recognizing a good decision and letting that piece settle.

Do not use Lance as the switch man - dare to be different - flower we are losing every game we play so why be so flower precious?

The rest of this year should be seen as a prospector's paradise. We are alone, with the tools, Ballarat's gold fields await, untouched, unexplored. Start flower digging!!!! Who knows what the flower we might unearth! What shiny nugget might capture the light and point the way home.

With Betts injured play Murph as a forward pocket and tell him to practise kicking goals (to me his one weakness).

Play Gibbs elsewhere than defense - let him have a bit of fun.

Choose the team according to what we want the kids to learn and not according to the veterans preferences. Use the rest of this year as a learning exercise, a training exercise, a bit of fun and a chance to be different.

What have we to lose? Games? Huh! We are experts at that already, I'm sure we can continue developing that expertise.

The angst (I think) is not the losing. Many of us (me included) expected a bottom four finish.

The angst stems from the unimaginative use of the kids.

JR as our only tagger?

Gibbs must play back?

Vary the team, try and pick a team that makes the opposition go 'what the flower?'

Have fun.

Dare to enjoy ourselves.

take care of the cents and the dollars will take care of themselves. For me the kids our our cents. Focus on them.

Be French!

Viva la difference!

Author:	dannyboy [ Tue May 22, 2007 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:	The remainder of the season
it would be nice to see the club acknowledge that what we have done for the first part of the season isn't working (in terms of winning) and so make some changes for the future. Play JR somewhere else other than tagging - say a half-back flank, with a license for the team to use him as the link man. If he fails to get the ball or use it at least we learn, or are we saying that under Pagan JR will be a tagger. Play Tex in the middle and forward - we know he can play in defense. Broaden his horizons. Play Houla anywhere but deep in defense and never on their dangerous goal kickers. Why not elevate Aisake or give Hampson a go? We are losing. What might change? Try it. Play Fev at CHF and JK deep. Play Benj (if fit) play Grigg (when fit) Play Raso (make a place for him to fit into) Play Blackers for a few weeks in a row. Leave Waite at CHB - here its a matter (same with Setanta) of recognizing a good decision and letting that piece settle. Do not use Lance as the switch man - dare to be different - @#$%&! we are losing every game we play so why be so @#$%&! precious? The rest of this year should be seen as a prospector's paradise. We are alone, with the tools, Ballarat's gold fields await, untouched, unexplored. Start @#$%&! digging!!!! Who knows what the @#$%&! we might unearth! What shiny nugget might capture the light and point the way home. With Betts injured play Murph as a forward pocket and tell him to practise kicking goals (to me his one weakness). Play Gibbs elsewhere than defense - let him have a bit of fun. Choose the team according to what we want the kids to learn and not according to the veterans preferences. Use the rest of this year as a learning exercise, a training exercise, a bit of fun and a chance to be different. What have we to lose? Games? Huh! We are experts at that already, I'm sure we can continue developing that expertise. The angst (I think) is not the losing. Many of us (me included) expected a bottom four finish. The angst stems from the unimaginative use of the kids. JR as our only tagger? Gibbs must play back? Vary the team, try and pick a team that makes the opposition go 'what the @#$%&!?' Have fun. Dare to enjoy ourselves. take care of the cents and the dollars will take care of themselves. For me the kids our our cents. Focus on them. Be French! Viva la difference!

Author:	DownUnderChick [ Tue May 22, 2007 3:00 pm ]
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GOLD Just change the heading to remainder DB!

Author:	George Harris [ Tue May 22, 2007 3:09 pm ]
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Good post. It's a bit like the coaching situation... Following successive wooden spoons, what have we got to lose by making a change?

Author:	bluechampion [ Tue May 22, 2007 3:11 pm ]
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I agree. Especially about Murphy playing as a small forward.

Author:	dannyboy [ Tue May 22, 2007 3:11 pm ]
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the coaching question is - mine with fingers or use a @#$%&! pick?

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

The remainder of the season http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16279	Page 1 of 3

Author:	dannyboy [ Tue May 22, 2007 3:07 pm ]
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Author:	Headplant [ Tue May 22, 2007 3:14 pm ]
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I have an idea ... play all 18 as taggers .... oh, sorry, Pagan has already done that. Look, this nuff nuff coach thinks it is strategy to play Walker, JR and Gibbs as taggers for much of their time. And he wonders why we cannot win any games.

Author:	slow_mo [ Tue May 22, 2007 3:23 pm ]
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We have players on the list who are genuine back pocket/flank types (ie, Flint, Anderson) I say bring them in to the seniors and let them play there. It will give them a taste of the big league and will also release Gibbs, Walker and Houlihan up the ground where they can be more creative and attacking. The season is shot, so we might as well experiment. I'd promote Aisake while we're at it.

Author:	thedominator [ Tue May 22, 2007 3:26 pm ]
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Well said Dannyboy. If only though...

Author:	BrianSetzer1 [ Tue May 22, 2007 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The remainder of the season
dannyboy wrote: it would be nice to see the club acknowledge that what we have done for the first part of the season isn't working (in terms of winning) and so make some changes for the future. Play JR somewhere else other than tagging - say a half-back flank, with a license for the team to use him as the link man. If he fails to get the ball or use it at least we learn, or are we saying that under Pagan JR will be a tagger. Play Tex in the middle and forward - we know he can play in defense. Broaden his horizons. Play Houla anywhere but deep in defense and never on their dangerous goal kickers. Why not elevate Aisake or give Hampson a go? We are losing. What might change? Try it. Play Fev at CHF and JK deep. Play Benj (if fit) play Grigg (when fit) Play Raso (make a place for him to fit into) Play Blackers for a few weeks in a row. Leave Waite at CHB - here its a matter (same with Setanta) of recognizing a good decision and letting that piece settle. Do not use Lance as the switch man - dare to be different - flower we are losing every game we play so why be so flower precious? The rest of this year should be seen as a prospector's paradise. We are alone, with the tools, Ballarat's gold fields await, untouched, unexplored. Start flower digging!!!! Who knows what the flower we might unearth! What shiny nugget might capture the light and point the way home. With Betts injured play Murph as a forward pocket and tell him to practise kicking goals (to me his one weakness). Play Gibbs elsewhere than defense - let him have a bit of fun. Choose the team according to what we want the kids to learn and not according to the veterans preferences. Use the rest of this year as a learning exercise, a training exercise, a bit of fun and a chance to be different. What have we to lose? Games? Huh! We are experts at that already, I'm sure we can continue developing that expertise. The angst (I think) is not the losing. Many of us (me included) expected a bottom four finish. The angst stems from the unimaginative use of the kids. JR as our only tagger? Gibbs must play back? Vary the team, try and pick a team that makes the opposition go 'what the flower?' Have fun. Dare to enjoy ourselves. take care of the cents and the dollars will take care of themselves. For me the kids our our cents. Focus on them. Be French! Viva la difference! Really good stuff, wish Pagan or one of his sidekicks read it!!!

Author:	Wangers [ Tue May 22, 2007 3:30 pm ]
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Agree with DB. We need to let the youngsters like AW, BG, JR, MM play with flair and carefree. We will still lose games, but these players get to play without knowing they will not get pasted by the coach. I reckon this is where AW has stopped playing his natural game (post his debut). I'd like to see Hartlett debut in the one's and play CHF, and be given the full 100 minutes on the field.

Author:	CK95 [ Tue May 22, 2007 4:00 pm ]
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good post, agree especially playing walker up forward for a bit.

Author:	blu944 [ Tue May 22, 2007 5:19 pm ]
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Agree with most of that except I'm happy with JR playing as a tagger. Playing a tagging role has two aspects, it can lead blokes to the ball if they aren't naturally good at finding it and it importantly it instills an accountable mindset. JR needs to learn both. Admittedly, if you leave a player their too long you will stifle their offensive development but I don't think JR has finished the 'apprenticeship' yet and he still has licence to get his own ball and run off which he has been doing on occasion. People on this site always bemoan Houlihan's lack of accountability and zero defensive qualities - which is fair enough - no doubt he would have benefited from a year minding a man.

Author:	timetodeliver2004 [ Tue May 22, 2007 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The remainder of the season
dannyboy wrote: Play JR somewhere else other than tagging - say a half-back flank, with a license for the team to use him as the link man. If he fails to get the ball or use it at least we learn, or are we saying that under Pagan JR will be a tagger. Play Fev at CHF and JK deep. Agree with everything but those 2. If we want to get people experience playing in the positions they are meant to play, then JK needs time at CHF. Yes, I know thats where he's been playing the majority of time - but he needs to play there with two main differences. One - he needs to spend a much larger part of the game on the ground. Two - people coming out of defence need to be told to play through him and look for him leading up. Secondly, I think Russell has potential playing the tagging role - has done it with success and I think it gives him a good apprenticeship learning against the best. At least let him settle into a role for a while and at least doing this he is getting significant time in the firsts and on the ground.

Author:	Barnesy [ Tue May 22, 2007 8:01 pm ]
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It's interesting how other clubs / presidents namely Kennett and Smorgan have acknowledged the need to play a brand of football that is conjusive to attracting memberhsip etc after the St Kilda / Hawthorn game. Although subjective to a point, I think it can be acknowledged that a change in coach may lead to a change in game style etc which may rejuvinate all concerned. Seeing players allowed to run free etc would be great. ALthough kicking the points we did against the Kangaroos and Brisbane and still losing may have painted a different picture if we had won.

Author:	Indie [ Tue May 22, 2007 9:58 pm ]
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Seems that everyone wants experimentation - until it happens, that is. There was much tut-tutting after Setanta's matchup on Gehrig. Give him a break from such a defensive position, many said. So he goes into the ruck, a position in which he has licence to run and create. Though he is accountable for the ruckman, often this is achieved by running into F50 to force them to respond. But now the wise heads of TC have decided that there's much more to be gained by leaving Setanta in place as FB in a settled 6. No longer are there complaints that Pagan would be obstinate if he returns to that philosophy, and no longer are there any admirers for the benefits of experimentation. Release Walker into the midfield, they cry. But if it allows Gibbs to play in the midfield, the wise heads at TC are willing to sacrifice Walker and have him play in a pocket instead. Because it can't be Houlihan. And wait for the outcry if our biggest possession-winner in Carrazzo is sent into a pocket. Of course Anderson might be sent there instead. But he is just as inexperienced and physically underdone as Gibbs while being less talented. But wait for the criticism of Pagan if he does put Anderson in a pocket and leaves him there. Complaints will fly that yet another young player has been forced to tag rather than using his flair (particularly indigenous flair) on the rebound. And if he is eaten alive by his opponents, that will be further evidence of Pagan's lack of care with young players. And if Gibbs goes into the middle and is physically overwhelmed, then Pagan will be blamed for throwing him to the wolves and failing to protect him. Just as he is criticised now for leaving Murphy in the middle - the guy who has 13 more AFL games than Gibbs and a year of development on him, and the guy that most of us think is 2nd only to Stevens in importance in our midfield. It's wonderful just how well the backseat coaches can see things clearly. Pity we can't have a committee of them to replace Pagan.

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Author:	Humpers [ Tue May 22, 2007 7:00 pm ]
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I hope we give significant senior game time to Hartlett, Edwards and Blackwell. We need to find out from our second and third year players whether they have what it takes.

Author:	Mickstar [ Tue May 22, 2007 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Dannyboy
Hey "Dan the Man",thats a bloody good post.And i thought you were only good for poetry.

Author:	dannyboy [ Tue May 22, 2007 8:34 pm ]
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if we had won then the point of the season would have been different, its because we didn't that I think a change of outlook should occur. Those advocating JR as a tagger - I don't necessarily disagree and would love to see him given more of a free rein off half-back, boost his disposal count, assist him in learning to accumulate possessions, ie develop him. I'd play JK in the FF position and let him play for contested marks, I know he can lead and lead and lead. Its the other side of his game I'd like to develop.

Author:	blueman [ Tue May 22, 2007 9:05 pm ]
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theres more to be gained by being different than remaining the same. Unfortunately, Denis cant see this though which is why his day as as Carlton coach are numbered.