TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Carlton's defence

The key to any Premiership is the backline. The matchups last night were deplorable from the start. We have no semblance of a plan to develop a backline at present.

I've said for weeks we won't win another game this year until we either address the backling issues or play a more defensive game plan to limit the opposition scoring fluency.

Your spot on Blues2005.

1.) We don't seem to be flooding as much this season.

2.) An unsettled back 6.

3.) Lack of small defenders.

4.) Turnovers up the ground.

when our opposition start to gain a bit of momentum it seems that we can't stop it....and this yr its been the whole last HALF of games....

if we can learn to kick a goal or two against the grain is when we will be a more consistent team...

also it can't hurt to have a plan B when it seems the opposition has figured out our game plan or we find it just isn't working...

Why do we continue to play Houlihan on the best opposition small forward ? He is killing us... Grant yesterday, Didak the week before..... Houlihan NOT A BACKMAN!!! He doesnt like going near blokes... dont get me wrong, good user of the footy but teams know he isnt a close checker and take him deep. Play him on a half forward flank

Author:	Blues2005 [ Sun May 20, 2007 4:08 am ]
Post subject:	Carlton's defence
It has to be said, our defence is absolutely laughable. EVERY time the opposition go forward you just feel that they will kick a goal. Even in 2002-06 our defence was never this bad, it was pretty ordinary but this year let's face it it has been a joke. Scores kicked against us: Round 1 vs Richmond: Richmond kicked 14.14.98 Round 2 vs Geelong: Geelong kicked 24.18.162 Round 3 vs Essendon: Essendon kicked 17.20.122 Round 4 vs West Coast: West Coast kicked 14.16 100 (wet day too, in dry conditions it is reasonable to assume that they would have kicked more) Round 5 vs Brisbane: Brisbane kicked 21.10.136 Round 6 vs St Kilda: St Kilda kicked 18.17.125 Round 7 vs Collingwood: Collingwood kicked 17.17.119 Round 8 vs Kangaroos: Kangaroos kicked 22.15.147 Hence our opposition have kicked a staggering 1009 points against us in our first eight games this season, at an average of 126 points per match! Perhaps even more worrying is that we can't claim that have been victim to inordinately straight kicking. We are conceding our opposition 34 scoring shots a game which is ridiculous. What this all means is that we need to kick over 20 goals to win in any given round which not even the best teams in the game's history could possibly manage. Strangely enough we've actually managed to kick > 115 points 4 times in 8 rounds which in itself is a fair effort but we are giving ourselves too much to do. What might be some of the reasons for this? 1.) We don't seem to be flooding as much this season. I recall reading somewhere that Denis said something about how he would rather not flood now even though this would mean more goals kicked against us than going all defensive and restricting the opposition and in doing so pinching a win or two. But he must realise that we aren't going to win too many games of footy conceding 126 points per game! 2.) An unsettled back 6. We never seem to have the same back 6 two weeks in a row. Waite plays back one week, forward the next. Setanta has gone from defence into the ruck etc etc. 3.) Lack of small defenders. We can't match up on the Brent Harvey/Shannon Grant/Alan Didak types as we just don't have the players. It's not Houlihan's fault that he just isn't a close-checking accountable defender. Bryce Gibbs probably hasn't played too many games in defence in his life. Joe Anderson is just a kid. Russell/Walker etc are not defenders but are asked to play such roles because of our real dearth of other options. And a player like Carrazzo who has done ok as a small defender in the past is playing well and getting a lot of footy in midfield, so throwing him back would be robbing Peter to pay Paul. Teague is too slow, Bannister who most have written off for good seems to have been consigned to the VFL for the rest of his contract. We just don't have anyone for this role! 4.) Turnovers up the ground. This is not I suppose a criticism as such of the defenders as sometimes as a defender there is nothing you can do if the players up the ground turn the ball over and leave the defence exposed, which has happened a lot as our skills/decision-making are at times very poor. There are probably other reasons as well but really conceding 126 points a game is not acceptable no matter who you are. How can we go into any game confident of winning if we know we are going to have to kick 20 goals to win it? The problem is that this doesn't appear something that can be addressed in the short-term so we can only expect plenty more big scores kicked against us this season. Interested in others' thoughts...

Author:	TheGame [ Sun May 20, 2007 5:21 am ]
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Your 2nd point says it all with backline not being settled. Pre-season we had O'Hailpin, Thornton, Waite and Walker down there almost all of the time. It's been a mixed bag during the season though with all of those guys being moved all over the place.

Author:	magic [ Sun May 20, 2007 6:22 am ]
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when our opposition start to gain a bit of momentum it seems that we can't stop it....and this yr its been the whole last HALF of games.... if we can learn to kick a goal or two against the grain is when we will be a more consistent team... also it can't hurt to have a plan B when it seems the opposition has figured out our game plan or we find it just isn't working...

Author:	BlueDW [ Sun May 20, 2007 8:22 am ]
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Perhaps I missed something, I havent seen a defence running around in the Navy Blue all year!!!!

Author:	mjonc [ Sun May 20, 2007 8:51 am ]
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The key to any Premiership is the backline. The matchups last night were deplorable from the start. We have no semblance of a plan to develop a backline at present. I've said for weeks we won't win another game this year until we either address the backling issues or play a more defensive game plan to limit the opposition scoring fluency. Your spot on Blues2005.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	Rhys26 [ Sun May 20, 2007 9:04 am ]
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italian_styles wrote: when our opposition start to gain a bit of momentum it seems that we can't stop it....and this yr its been the whole last HALF of games.... if we can learn to kick a goal or two against the grain is when we will be a more consistent team... Thats where you need senior leaders to stand up and try to wrest control. At the moment our only leaders are Fev and a 19 year kid who has only played 20 odd games of footy (who is starting to look tired and frustrated)

Author:	nytdog [ Sun May 20, 2007 9:53 am ]
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mjonc wrote: The key to any Premiership is the backline. The matchups last night were deplorable from the start. We have no semblance of a plan to develop a backline at present. I've said for weeks we won't win another game this year until we either address the backling issues or play a more defensive game plan to limit the opposition scoring fluency. Your spot on Blues2005. I agree with mjonc. Most premiership teams have a great (settled) backline. Carlton's 1995 premiership team is a great example: Dean SOS Rice Christou Sexton McKay We are not settled down back. Our midfield is still playing too loose and hence conceeding numerous goals and assists from midfielders. Part of the problem I feel is the lack of team work (covering for each other) as well as turnovers. The players are instructed to run hard when we have the ball to get to the feet of our forwards or to provide an option or to run the ball. The problem is, because our skills are still sub standard once there are too many turnovers and once the ball is turned over we are caught out of position and are getting punished on the rebound. Number 1 is to settle the backline with around 8 players that always play in the back half. That'll allow them to get to know how each other plays and they will learn to cover for each better as well as provide more rebound. 2007 Carlton defence could be: Thornton Setanta Anderson* Walker Waite Scotland * The most difficult spot to find a ready made player Maybe Russell, Carazzo, Lappin and/or Gibbs can be other options to play the flanks and pockets. Not sure. But we really need to make a decision and stick to it. NO MORE Houla deep in defence. No more Whitnall in defence - that's not the future. Whitnall has been very good up forward so leave him there.

Author:	Ponkstar [ Sun May 20, 2007 9:57 am ]
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We have been getting those scores kicked on us ad infinitum for the past 4 seasons. The positive is that those scores are less frequently resulting in 80+ point thrashings. Our attack / midfield is clearly improving, but our defence needs work. In all not a completely unexpected turn of events given that we are still a work in progress, and the general paucity of quality defenders available in the trade market or at the draft table. This is demonstrated in the huge bucket of cash the Hawks were willing to chuck at Thornton last year. Pagan has been shuffling the decks so to speak, but until we have the right personnel in place, our best hopes for a few wins will continue to be in shootout style matches where we can score higher scores than the opposition. Unfortunately for us, there are probably only half a dozen teams that we can realistically hope to out-punch on any given day.

Author:	hollywood43 [ Sun May 20, 2007 10:01 am ]
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Why do we continue to play Houlihan on the best opposition small forward ? He is killing us... Grant yesterday, Didak the week before..... Houlihan NOT A BACKMAN!!! He doesnt like going near blokes... dont get me wrong, good user of the footy but teams know he isnt a close checker and take him deep. Play him on a half forward flank

Author:	hollywood43 [ Sun May 20, 2007 10:04 am ]
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Havent been following the Bullants, have we any young ruckmen that are worth elevating so we can keep Setanta at Full Back? Jacobs, Hampson even Aisake ?

Author:	tommi [ Sun May 20, 2007 10:08 am ]
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Neverheardofthem.............! kindest regards tommi

Author:	Stefchook [ Sun May 20, 2007 10:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Carlton's defence
Blues2005 wrote: 1.) We don't seem to be flooding as much this season. 2.) An unsettled back 6. 3.) Lack of small defenders. 4.) Turnovers up the ground. Agreed. My order would be 3), 1), 2) and then 4).

Author:	budzy [ Sun May 20, 2007 11:01 am ]
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I'd settle a back 7. Anderson O'hAilpin Thornton Scotland Waite Walker Flint Versatility, run, grunt, passion, skill.

Author:	dannyboy [ Sun May 20, 2007 11:05 am ]
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yeah then we could move flint to the wing, Setanta to CHF, Ando to the pine and bring Houla on!!!!! Bring Houla on!!!!!!!!!!! Oh Denis wont you bring Houla on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Author:	Blues Clues [ Sun May 20, 2007 11:46 am ]
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Anderson to back pocket - tough, quick, committed. Tick Flint to HBF - composed, hard runner and disciplined. A real footballer. Tick Santy - back to FB. JK back as ruckman no 2. Not perfect, but Aisake still needs more time. Back six of Santy, Ando, Waite, T-Bird, Flint, Scotland has a nice balance. Height, run, discipline and enough experience. Outs - Young (honest, but need more than that), Saddo (handy back up, but didn't go when his turn a few times last night), Eddie injured. Walker, Houlihan and Gibbs? Houlihan - please, please, please get him onto the wing or as a HFF option. If no good there - OUT. Walker - free him up to the midfield. Got to have his run through the middle. Gibbs - HFF/midfield option. Only to HBF if has the perfect option, but never on the full back line. Take out the emotion, they were pretty good last night. The coaching still the biggest problem, obviously.

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Author:	Zippy [ Sun May 20, 2007 11:45 am ]
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italian_styles wrote: when our opposition start to gain a bit of momentum it seems that we can't stop it....and this yr its been the whole last HALF of games.... if we can learn to kick a goal or two against the grain is when we will be a more consistent team... also it can't hurt to have a plan B when it seems the opposition has figured out our game plan or we find it just isn't working... Plan B: See Plan A

Author:	mjonc [ Sun May 20, 2007 11:50 am ]
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Flint is a natural backman. That is what we lack natural backman. We try to turn anyone with height into a defender, or anyone with natural flair into a backman. Anderson is perfect for the back pocket role. He may make mistakes, but he runs, he tackles, he has the speed to keep up with the little people. Free Gibbs to a more creative role, get Houligan out of the team or up forward.

Author:	TheGame [ Sun May 20, 2007 11:54 am ]
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I thought it was hilarious when Corey Jones was taking Lappin apart in the air he moved Scotland onto him.

Author:	nytdog [ Sun May 20, 2007 11:58 am ]
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yeah what a shit move. Put a DEFENSIVE player on him. That's where Teague would do us some good. Although I know we're not going back there!

Author:	Deano Supremo [ Sun May 20, 2007 1:08 pm ]
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hollywood43 wrote: Why do we continue to play Houlihan on the best opposition small forward ? He is killing us... Grant yesterday, Didak the week before..... Houlihan NOT A BACKMAN!!! He doesnt like going near blokes... dont get me wrong, good user of the footy but teams know he isnt a close checker and take him deep. Play him on a half forward flank QFT. Houlihan in the backline achieves nothing. It's got to stop. If there's no room in the forward line for him then there's plenty of room at Cramer street for him.