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Carlton: We haven't Improved
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Author:  bluejoker [ Fri May 18, 2007 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Carlton: We haven't Improved
On SEN they had talk back topic on players that have improved at their clubs. I thought about this at Carlton and I can say that our players have shown little improvement. I will go through our list of senior players below with my comments on whether they have improved this year or not.

Ackland - Worse than last year.
Bentick - No
Blackwell - No but has not been given a chance to really show us yet.
Betts - No
Bower - No
Carrazzo - No
Cloke - Yes
Fevola - Yes
Fisher - No (injury otherwise would have)
Houlihan - Yes
Kennedy - No, in fact is playing worse than last year.
Kouta - No
Lappin - Yes
Murphy - No (loss of Stevens not helped)
Setanta - Yes but still off AFL standard.
Russell - No. Need this guy to start finding the football and being creative.
Scotland - Yes
Simpson - No
Stevens - Yes before injury
Thornton - No
Waite - No. Still inconsistent. Beats Riewold but gets smashed by Cloke.
Walker - No. Not influential enough. Good but we need more.
Whitnall - No
Wiggins - No, and no for the last 5 years.

If you do this exercise for Collingwood, Hawthorn or Port you will see many "yes" and not many "No"

My conclusion is, that Pagan simply is not getting the best out of his troops and guys who should be taking the next step really haven't. Thats why we are struggling.
Author:  BlueDW [ Fri May 18, 2007 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carlton: We haven't Improved
bluejoker wrote:
On SEN they had talk back topic on players that have improved at their clubs. I thought about this at Carlton and I can say that our players have shown little improvement. I will go through our list of senior players below with my comments on whether they have improved this year or not.

Ackland - Worse than last year. Not in a position to judge.
Bentick - No. Wrong
Blackwell - No but has not been given a chance to really show us yet. Fair comment
Betts - No. Agree
Bower - No. Not sure
Carrazzo - No. Wrong
Cloke - Yes. Correct
Fevola - Yes
Fisher - No (injury otherwise would have)
Houlihan - Yes
Kennedy - No, in fact is playing worse than last year.
Kouta - No
Lappin - Yes
Murphy - No (loss of Stevens not helped). Wrong
Setanta - Yes but still off AFL standard.
Russell - No. Need this guy to start finding the football and being creative. Wrong
Scotland - Yes
Simpson - No. Wrong
Stevens - Yes before injury
Thornton - No. Wrong
Waite - No. Still inconsistent. Beats Riewold but gets smashed by Cloke. Wrong
Walker - No. Not influential enough. Good but we need more.. Clearly wrong
Whitnall - No. Clearly
Wiggins - No, and no for the last 5 years.

If you do this exercise for Collingwood, Hawthorn or Port you will see many "yes" and not many "No"

My conclusion is, that Pagan simply is not getting the best out of his troops and guys who should be taking the next step really haven't. Thats why we are struggling.
Author:  buzzalenko [ Fri May 18, 2007 11:39 am ]
Post subject: 
I think a few of your ratings are pretty harsh here. I think blue dw is closer to the money. Walker is one who in my view has improved significantly. Also you can't gauge if we have improved if you ignore the contribution of our new players. Has Gibbs done Ok? Yes. Was it good that Ando has had a taste of senior footy?

Is it fair to judge Bower on one game?
Author:  DownUnderChick [ Fri May 18, 2007 11:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Is it fair to judge Kouta on half a game?

Fisher has significantly improved this year as has Carrazzo - his kicking for goal alone has been exceptional especially after last year.

Fev is more undisciplined than last year but as his standards are very high, not sure if he is better than 2006.

Houlihan - no change in my book.

Smurph had a great game last week and is working himself into games while still being tagged.

Russell is playing with a hell of lot more confidence and in my view that is an improvement.

Waite moved off Cloke in the last qtr when he was moved forward - at which point Cloke kicked his goals. Definite improvement.

On Walker, you are dreaming - stepped up several steps.
Author:  TruBlueBrad [ Fri May 18, 2007 12:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mate, Walker, Fisher, Carazzo, Betts, Russell, O'hAilpin, Waite...even Thornton have all improved this season.

Be patient guys...it'll happen
Author:  The Tyrant [ Fri May 18, 2007 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carlton: We haven't Improved
bluejoker wrote:
On SEN they had talk back topic on players that have improved at their clubs. I thought about this at Carlton and I can say that our players have shown little improvement. I will go through our list of senior players below with my comments on whether they have improved this year or not.

Ackland - Worse than last year.
Bentick - No
Blackwell - No but has not been given a chance to really show us yet.
Betts - No
Bower - No
Carrazzo - No
Cloke - Yes
Fevola - Yes
Fisher - No (injury otherwise would have)
Houlihan - Yes
Kennedy - No, in fact is playing worse than last year.
Kouta - No
Lappin - Yes
Murphy - No (loss of Stevens not helped)
Setanta - Yes but still off AFL standard.
Russell - No. Need this guy to start finding the football and being creative.
Scotland - Yes
Simpson - No
Stevens - Yes before injury
Thornton - No
Waite - No. Still inconsistent. Beats Riewold but gets smashed by Cloke.
Walker - No. Not influential enough. Good but we need more.
Whitnall - No
Wiggins - No, and no for the last 5 years.

If you do this exercise for Collingwood, Hawthorn or Port you will see many "yes" and not many "No"

My conclusion is, that Pagan simply is not getting the best out of his troops and guys who should be taking the next step really haven't. Thats why we are struggling.
Author:  camel [ Fri May 18, 2007 1:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
President - Better than last year.
Author:  From The Outer [ Fri May 18, 2007 2:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Mate, Walker, Fisher, Carazzo, Betts, Russell, O'hAilpin, Waite...even Thornton have all improved this season.

Be patient guys...it'll happen


I remember on these boards a few years ago when we were at rock bottom, that quite a few would say "I wouldn't mind losing as much, if we at least played attacking footy"

Well that day has arrived.

Let's continue playing attacking footy. The mistakes will slowly reduce, the kids will get 50-60 games under their belts and another 5-10 kgs on their bones, and the "loafers" who refuse to chase will either retire or be shown the exit door.

Sure, losing is hard to swallow, but for the first time in years we are playing patches of footy that even the scribes are finding difficult to ignore.

Like TruBlueBrad said, be patient.

The NAB Cup whetted our appetites. The feast isn't too far away.
Author:  Elwood Blues1 [ Fri May 18, 2007 2:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
Houlihan improved???????...he had a haircut ..thats about the only improvement..
Author:  TruBlueBrad [ Fri May 18, 2007 2:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Elwood Blues1 wrote:
Houlihan improved???????...he had a haircut ..thats about the only improvement..


:-D
Author:  4thchicken [ Fri May 18, 2007 2:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
From The Outer wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Mate, Walker, Fisher, Carazzo, Betts, Russell, O'hAilpin, Waite...even Thornton have all improved this season.

Be patient guys...it'll happen


I remember on these boards a few years ago when we were at rock bottom, that quite a few would say "I wouldn't mind losing as much, if we at least played attacking footy"



Playing whitnall at FB a week after he kicked or was responsible for up to 10 shots on goal when playing in the forward half isnt attacking footy

Playing gibbs in the back half is not attacking footy (HFF better option than HBF)

Manning up the opposition in the forward 1/2 until you have 9 players in F50 is not attacking footy

Having walker tag thomas, russell/gibbs as taggers is not attacking footy


There are plenty of other examples. Whilst we have played a bit more attractively this season I think we are still a looooooong way short from being able to say that our coach backs in all our players with an aggressive/positive game plan.
Author:  ScottSaunders [ Fri May 18, 2007 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carlton: We haven't Improved
bluejoker wrote:
On SEN they had talk back topic on players that have improved at their clubs. I thought about this at Carlton and I can say that our players have shown little improvement. I will go through our list of senior players below with my comments on whether they have improved this year or not.

Ackland - Worse than last year.
Bentick - No
Blackwell - No but has not been given a chance to really show us yet.
Betts - No
Bower - No
Carrazzo - No
Cloke - Yes
Fevola - Yes
Fisher - No (injury otherwise would have)
Houlihan - Yes
Kennedy - No, in fact is playing worse than last year.
Kouta - No
Lappin - Yes
Murphy - No (loss of Stevens not helped)
Setanta - Yes but still off AFL standard.
Russell - No. Need this guy to start finding the football and being creative.
Scotland - Yes
Simpson - No
Stevens - Yes before injury
Thornton - No
Waite - No. Still inconsistent. Beats Riewold but gets smashed by Cloke.
Walker - No. Not influential enough. Good but we need more.
Whitnall - No
Wiggins - No, and no for the last 5 years.

If you do this exercise for Collingwood, Hawthorn or Port you will see many "yes" and not many "No"

My conclusion is, that Pagan simply is not getting the best out of his troops and guys who should be taking the next step really haven't. Thats why we are struggling.


at least you choose the right user name
Author:  captain_rigs [ Fri May 18, 2007 3:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ackland – lazy needs motivation.
Bentick – serviceable, great tackler
Blackwell – good player needs game time
Betts – somewhat inconsistent but good player
Bower – cant judge on one game
Carrazzo – good player disposal efficiency a downside
Cloke – did well
Fevola - gun
Fisher – keeps getting better disposal is also improving
Houlihan – he should playing more upfield not in defence, soft but skillful
Kennedy – No game time and team tactics are working against him he’ll come good
Kouta- cant judge on one game
Lappin – done well of late
Murphy – gun he’s kerr like, disposal efficiency has let him down this year
Setanta – has done well massive upside may eventually become a bigman utility.
Russell – can be soft but has upsides, good size quick and something bout him.
Scotland – quarterback makes the easy look hard and the hard look easy
Simpson – good player his delivery inside 50 can let him down
Stevens – good player, a gun when he wants to be
Thornton – the stabilizer in the defence he is paramount
Waite - inconsistent. It might be his concentration span, I still have faith
Walker – good season thus far, gonna b a champion
Whitnall – sand in the hour glass slipping by, gets exposed too easily when he doesn’t have it
Wiggins – sorry, hes gotta go

Our youngsters are like meat to a slaughter everytime they step foot on the field and the way they are developing has really impressed me.

Imagine this: Murphy playing for the swans or eagles, he'd be racking up 30= possies a week with all that protection around him.

my point is dont be too harsh on the boys, there is no scoreboard stat for deveopment.
Author:  Fabulous [ Fri May 18, 2007 3:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
captain_rigs wrote:
Ackland – lazy needs motivation.
Bentick – serviceable, great tackler
Blackwell – good player needs game time
Betts – somewhat inconsistent but good player
Bower – cant judge on one game
Carrazzo – good player disposal efficiency a downside
Cloke – did well
Fevola - gun
Fisher – keeps getting better disposal is also improving
Houlihan – he should playing more upfield not in defence, soft but skillful
Kennedy – No game time and team tactics are working against him he’ll come good
Kouta- cant judge on one game
Lappin – done well of late
Murphy – gun he’s kerr like, disposal efficiency has let him down this year
Setanta – has done well massive upside may eventually become a bigman utility.
Russell – can be soft but has upsides, good size quick and something bout him.
Scotland – quarterback makes the easy look hard and the hard look easy
Simpson – good player his delivery inside 50 can let him down
Stevens – good player, a gun when he wants to be
Thornton – the stabilizer in the defence he is paramount
Waite - inconsistent. It might be his concentration span, I still have faith
Walker – good season thus far, gonna b a champion
Whitnall – sand in the hour glass slipping by, gets exposed too easily when he doesn’t have it
Wiggins – sorry, hes gotta go

Our youngsters are like meat to a slaughter everytime they step foot on the field and the way they are developing has really impressed me.

Imagine this: Murphy playing for the swans or eagles, he'd be racking up 30= possies a week with all that protection around him.

my point is dont be too harsh on the boys, there is no scoreboard stat for deveopment.


That would be a very similar assessment too mine...

I think we have the talent it’s just the game plan, belief and the structure that lets us down...
Author:  mjonc [ Fri May 18, 2007 4:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
The question was who has improved:

Murphy
Russell
Thornton
Carlos
Carrazzo
Betts

That is it my friends. A good reflection of why we are still shit. Nobody improves you remain shit. :evil:

PS: Long term injured players aren't included in my list. Stevens and Cloke would of been added otherwise.
Author:  Springsteen [ Fri May 18, 2007 5:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Mate, Walker, Fisher, Carazzo, Betts, Russell, O'hAilpin, Waite...even Thornton have all improved this season.

Be patient guys...it'll happen


betts is a 40-50 game player and i cant remember him ever playing 4 good quarters in a month let alone in 1 game.
Author:  moshe25 [ Fri May 18, 2007 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carlton: We haven't Improved
[quote="bluejoker"][/quote]

Apt name.....
Author:  The Tyrant [ Fri May 18, 2007 5:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
I reckon Mark Austin will be a great player
Author:  The Tyrant [ Fri May 18, 2007 5:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Carlton are like Medieval Europe
Author:  blueman [ Fri May 18, 2007 8:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
there will be considerable and quite rapid improvement in our young players once we have a new coach.
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