TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Are we snobs when it comes to our players?

Maybe Bentick and Betts also suffer from the same problem.

That's not to say that they can't be fairly criticised for some of their performances this year. But compare them to Simmo. He had the cachet of being our first pick (although he was pick no. 45 in 2002). There was a sense that he was a talent that would be realised in time when his body was right, even though there was some disquiet about the time it eventually took.

But when his performances were disappointing early this year, there wasn't an undercurrent of doubt about whether he was just a battler who managed a good year.

By comparison, Betts has virtually been a fixture in the team since he was drafted in the PSD. He compares favourably with Alwyn Davey who is 3 years older that him, and has virtually the same physical stats and style of play.

Bentick needs to improve his form, but Simmo did a couple of weeks back as well. Maybe an important assignment on Harris will be a good opportunity to make his mark.

Author:	Indie [ Tue May 15, 2007 8:36 am ]
Post subject:	Are we snobs when it comes to our players?
There's no doubt that players who were selected with early draft picks carry the burden of expectation much more than others. That can lead to impatience with players like JK and Russell. On the other hand, players who were selected with low picks or rookie selections always carry the suspicion that they aren't up to it, and are only temporary solutions until really talented players can be drafted. One example surely has to be Carrazzo. The fact that he had to wait until the rookie draft to be selected by Geelong and spent 2 years there without promotion hurts him. Then he had to spend almost a season on our rookie list until he received his chance to play senior footy, and this doesn't compare favourably to Thornton who was promoted early in his first season. Clearly, he had disposal problems which explained his battle to win a senior spot in his first 3 years. But he has commanded a spot largely through hard work and commitment. His kicking has improved greatly as a result, and to my eye he is now at least average in this regard. As with Setanta, if you didn't know his origins and just assessed him on his current performance, you'd say he's a good AFL footballer. His kicking for goal is the major change. Last year, he couldn't kick a goal from 15-20 metres out directly in front. He couldn't even lift it over the player on the mark. This year, he's slotted a couple of pressure goals from 35-40 out on a 45 degree angle. His misfortune is that other teams' supporters will assess him on current performance as they don't know any better. But he will continue to be marked harshly by his own supporters. Some even thought his game against Collingwood was of dubious value. But the coaches' votes went to Scotland and Carrazzo. He was named in the best, and now Matt Burgan has selected him on a forward flank in his team of the round: Quote: Andrew Carrazzo (Carlton) The vastly underrated Blue simply never stopped trying in a super display against the Pies. Carrazzo won 34 disposals, including 24 in the second half, while he sent the ball inside 50 on seven occasions and won seven clearances. http://www.afl.com.au/Default.aspx?tabid=208&newsId=43181 Vastly underrated is a nice summary!

Author:	dannyboy [ Tue May 15, 2007 8:50 am ]
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he got my votes on saturday. Thought his game was fantastic and lifted in the second half when we needed him. I also thought JK's first quarter was one of the reasons we were able tpo break open the magpie's defence - then he was taken off and we became Fev centric and that was that.

Author:	Indie [ Tue May 15, 2007 9:00 am ]
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Maybe Bentick and Betts also suffer from the same problem. That's not to say that they can't be fairly criticised for some of their performances this year. But compare them to Simmo. He had the cachet of being our first pick (although he was pick no. 45 in 2002). There was a sense that he was a talent that would be realised in time when his body was right, even though there was some disquiet about the time it eventually took. But when his performances were disappointing early this year, there wasn't an undercurrent of doubt about whether he was just a battler who managed a good year. By comparison, Betts has virtually been a fixture in the team since he was drafted in the PSD. He compares favourably with Alwyn Davey who is 3 years older that him, and has virtually the same physical stats and style of play. Bentick needs to improve his form, but Simmo did a couple of weeks back as well. Maybe an important assignment on Harris will be a good opportunity to make his mark.

Author:	jimmae [ Tue May 15, 2007 9:36 am ]
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Just in a more general sense, I'm a firm believer that you should (in this day and age) be getting 50 games or about 4 years (barring injury) out of any player that's a fourth round pick or higher, ie. the top 60 or so of each draft pool. Each year I'm surprised by some of the talent scooped up through the lower ranks but it's backed by some pretty consistent categorisation: - Players perceived as athletes with a sizable knock on their football ability/commitment - Players perceived as footballers with a sizable knock on their athletic ability/commitment Looks obvious when you break it down that way, but you go through the players left each year and there's quite a few who put up solid seasons (at the very least statistically). Carrazzo is one such player; Thornton, Bentick, Flint & Jamison are others. I'm just glad we have a recruiting team that goes back and flags these blokes for a real second look. Sure sometimes you still grab a 'type' project player (Jacobs, Batson), but you can't help but rate the former strategy.

Author:	budzy [ Tue May 15, 2007 1:53 pm ]
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Carrotts is definately playing with more surity & confidence this year but if I see him wandering down into our backline as a small (negative) defender one more time... Play him in the guts and he'll keep improving I reckon and he'll become one of our more consistant & reliable playmakers. Basicly I don't care where they've come from, if they're on our list and they keep improving, then that's great.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	Headplant [ Tue May 15, 2007 2:30 pm ]
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Carrazzo has improved every year and is doing very well at the moment. But yes, I think you are right, some people just are not very observant. With certain players, if they see one bad disposal it negates all their good work in the eyes of some.

Author:	billc3 [ Tue May 15, 2007 3:48 pm ]
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Thanks Indie, Confirms what I saw at the G...12 clearences from as many hard ball gets I reckon. Every time the ball seemed to come out of a pack, seemed that Carrots had gone in, got it and kicked it forward.... I haven't seen the replay yet, but I was thinking I had missed something having read comments about him "not being up to it" or "dropped for next week" in a few threads on here... I was sure he'ld played really well....didn't realise he had that many possesions, but I only look at the contested stiuff and he had plenty of those.

Author:	Headplant [ Tue May 15, 2007 5:21 pm ]
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According to PRO-Stats he had 38 disposals and 11 clearances, both the highest for round 7.

Author:	preacher [ Tue May 15, 2007 5:45 pm ]
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Indie wrote: Maybe Bentick and Betts also suffer from the same problem. That's not to say that they can't be fairly criticised for some of their performances this year. But compare them to Simmo. He had the cachet of being our first pick (although he was pick no. 45 in 2002). There was a sense that he was a talent that would be realised in time when his body was right, even though there was some disquiet about the time it eventually took. But when his performances were disappointing early this year, there wasn't an undercurrent of doubt about whether he was just a battler who managed a good year. By comparison, Betts has virtually been a fixture in the team since he was drafted in the PSD. He compares favourably with Alwyn Davey who is 3 years older that him, and has virtually the same physical stats and style of play. Bentick needs to improve his form, but Simmo did a couple of weeks back as well. Maybe an important assignment on Harris will be a good opportunity to make his mark. Bentick played on Burns - Burns had his least influential display this year.

Author:	grrofunger [ Tue May 15, 2007 6:13 pm ]
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it is the one bad thing all the good things ruined curse in the last quarter carrots could have put it onto fevs chest directly in front - fev had space on his man - carrots bombed it over him to a crowded pack in which we were outnumbered - resulting in a turnover shit game carrotts is the result

Author:	Blues2005 [ Tue May 15, 2007 7:10 pm ]
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I reckon someone like Carrazzo is one of those players where it's as if he, to use a legal analogy, is guilty and has to prove himself innocent. It's difficult to explain but it's like he has been stigmatised because he came off the rookie list, and given a reputation as someone with poor disposal problems etc and has to now go about winning over Carlton supporters. He is one of those players that gets very few plaudits from Carlton supporters for the good things he does - but as soon as he stuffs up even ever-so-slightly it's as if it reinforces that his reputation and stigmatisation is justified and he has to start from square one all over again. He will never win over many supporters because, just like any player, he will continue to make mistakes. I personally reckon it's very harsh on Andrew but it's just the reality of his situation.

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