My main concern over the past few weeks has not been the result of the games, but the development of our young kids.

Quite simply, highly talented young 18 year old footballers are coming to Carlton and ending up worse than when we picked them up.

Pagan's theory of sticking every kid in the back pocket is being utilised dogamtically. It doesn;t have to be every game.

I mentioned this in the CONS, but I thought it deserves its own thread.

Gibbs - he is becoming negative, playing in a position he has never played on faster players. I don;t think he should always be in the middle, but change it up

Walker - same thing. Started year beautifully but gets stuck back

Murph - getting beaten up by taggers

Kennedy - flourishes in two's, bypassed under Denis' game plan

Bower - aquitted himself well in 2 games last year - appeared to go backwards under Denis' tutelage.

ALL THE YOUNG GUYS ARE GOING BACKWARDS

This is a major concern. Russel and Hartlett as well. Carlton is the worst team in the league for a young player to go to, and that is a disaster because at the moment youth is all we have

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They will know that they've been playing against the famous old dark blues

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money lost , nothing lost
confidence lost , everything lost

I wouldn't say I agree with this post 100%, but I have at times found myself wondering why some of our kids don't seem to blossom early like some kids do at other clubs.

Fact is our players, regardless of age, have a bloody tough gig simply because we've got very few A grade senior players with which to build a team around. Murphy copping our opponents best defensive midfielder is a case in point. We've just got Nick Stevens out.

Look at Luke Power at the Lions, ahead of him was Black, Aker, Voss and Lappin. Of course he was going to get an easy ride into senior footy.

Judd had Embley, Cousins and Kerr ahead of him. Pretty easy introduction to senior footy when you have players of that quality welcoming you at the club.

Our kids aren't really our problem any more. They just have few senior guys to help them through their development. The good thing is if we can keep them all together, they could end up battle hardened and determined like the Lions. The bad thing is it makes the present pretty @#$%&! awful to live through.

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I think you're spot on camelboy. In my post-loss state, I didn;t articulate my argument as well as I could've.

TO develop kids well you need:

1. Experienced players to help them along and take the brunt (MISSING)

2. Coach with a gameplan that doesn;t support collision football for kids and gives them a chance in the right positions (MISSING)

3. Off field infrasturcture (Inferior to other clubs)

As you say, our lack of experience is hurting the kids. But in my opinion Pagan is slaughtering some of these kids and they are going backwards.

It is a nightmare scenario.

As I said in my first post, at the moment Carlton is probably the worst team in the league at which a young player can develop, and it is very dangerous.

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They will know that they've been playing against the famous old dark blues

I reckon the Pagan is slaughtering the kinds line is a tough one to judge. On the surface it could be pretty easy to come to that conclusion.

But I doubt I'd change any of the things he has done with the likes of, Simpson, Bentick, Carrazzo, Betts, Fisher and Walker. A bit too early to tell with the more recent draftees, but while his approach may not yield immediate results and it is incredibly frustrating at times to see the likes of Gibbs in defence, I reckon you can make a case for Pagan's work with the kids, at the very least, being up to scratch.

Some of his gameday versatility and seeming lack of imagination from the coaches box, yeah, you can get stuck right into Denis about that. Then there's Barry Mitchell fiasco and the always talking our club and kids down in press conferences...

I don't mind Denis, I think he's a pretty decent and honest sort of a bloke. But I also reckon his time is up.

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So you armchair experts think you know something....Well lets set something straight. This year (and those just gone) are not about winning they are about developing. It is on this development that Denis should be judged.

So how is he going? Here's my take on it - and I admit I know little about football, but I have been an educator for about 25 years.

The guns. Take Gibbs, Jamachim? No he came of his accord - no please, Gibbs is an outstanding prospect - we know this. His visions, hands and use of the ball make him a salivating prospect for all of us. So what does Denis do? Simple. He works out his weaknesses. Not the fastest, not the most experienced (naturally) and also takes away his strengths - excellent overhead, sets up play, can kick goals etc. And brilliantly places him in the back pocket so that Gibbs will focus on his weaknesses (as they get exposed week after week) and strengthen that side of his game rather than enter into the team and simply play to to his strengths - anyone can do that.

Take Tex - fast, loves to run, to fly, to kick a goal. So stick him in defnce and make him accountable, make him understand that if he flies and misses, its a goal. If he runs off his man and the ball gets turned over, ist a goal. Make him learn all about pressure. Thats the thing!

Take Murph. Actually, this is a simple one, Murph has no weaknesses so just stick him in the middle and let him get pounded week after week - toughen the lad up.

JR - okay he is fast and a good kick of the ball -so make him tag, let him chase some poor sorry arse from here to eternity and learn about hard work.

JK - I suspect Denis thinks all talls have had it far too easy, so he buries them across the half forward line and instructs the team to bypass them at all cost - make him learn what it must be like to be small and slow.

Bower - running defender - stick him on the bench and let him watch the game. I think he is developing well as an observer and will be able to take up radio commentary very soon.

Setanta - He is tall (but not too tall) and fast and knows very little, so play him in the ruck but only after he settles in well in a KP possie, like say FB!
We do not want him getting it too easy playing on the Browns or Richos of this world.

Aisake - just do not play him, test his mettle. Does he really want it?

Blackers - play him every 7 games so he always looks like a new player and never settles in to any sort of rhythm.


So you can see Denis is developing them brilliantly. Mind you it does not always work of course, but thats called risk management. Take Houla, started off without a defensive bone in his body and after 7 years and a 100 odd games he still hasn't got a defensive bone in his body. But at least we are all now convinced of this fact. Yes Denis leaves no stone unturned - though why Houla is never dragged and spoken too sometimes (like say kicking the ball along the ground to their goal instead of picking it up!!!!!) remains a mystery only Zen masters might penetrate.

So yes, Denis is a master of development. Remember the sound of one hand clapping, it is the sound a Carlton supporter makes after another brilliantly staged fadeoutcomebackstuffuploseagain!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Meh.............

i would have liked a bit more......"Pagan">>>>>>"Fagan"
stuff.........!

but hey......it's early in the day...........!


kindest regards tommi
























*see what i did there Dee Boy.........?*

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that'siti'mnotchangingthistagain......!

sign him up for another 3 years!

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There's so much I could say...

Well.............

not performance based OB-viously................!


kindest regards tommi

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that'siti'mnotchangingthistagain......!

ode for tommi

Pagan is Fagan
in disguise
he steals from the poor
and makes them poorer
he is not wise

please sir can we have no more






of this @#$%&! losing week after @#$%&! week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Given that we already have the back half filled with first round picks who'd normally play in the cetre/forward this years draft will be used on KP backs to fill the crumbing forward position.

Seeeee.................

now your doing stuff to make me happy Dee Boy..............
thank you............!


kindest regards tommi
















what's Des'ee on about............?

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that'siti'mnotchangingthistagain......!

see, brilliant des, you get it - you're a developer (not late I hope)

Ruck with Murph I say!!!!!!!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

out Betts In I O'hAilpin

yep Aisake elevated for the forward crumbing position - actually Jacobs would be a better choice, he's slower.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I think he would be more suited to the bench. He is young so it would be stupid to give him game time. Why would we want to develop him?

I thought you were serious till I got to Murphy.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Danny - cn you post this as this weeks Ghost on CFC site?

I thought about it and chickened out

thought Denis might give me a right developing myself.....

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

As you all know, i made a promise to support Pagan as much as possible provided that he made a great deal of changes.

Sadly, he has left me little choice and i have lost all faith in him.

And it is this (Youth Development) that is my main concern.

Collingwood are on fire with their kids. Most of them have played the same amount of games ours have and in some cases less than us!

Thomas is given freedom to be the burst player he is................Walker is denied that freedom by tagging Thomas.

Pendlebury is allowed to play his natural game whilst Gibbs is thrown down at Full-Back.

I could go on & on, but it's not gonna do much good. I have lost total faith and it's actually quite sad to see somebody like Gibbs being wasted as a Full Back & Kennedy being destroyed by throwing him all over the ground.

Sad. Very Sad.

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle