Carlton coach Denis Pagan, Karen says, is a "firm male" and his reign has coincided with the forward realising his football potential. Even if it's been with the odd splutter.

"Without being rude, him being a lot older, I think he's probably got more patience about him," Karen says. "I think it might be like a father figure, like a father-son, that's how I look at it. I think he might have had more patience and understanding for Brendan."