TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Not happy with selection policy

A wise old sage told me on the weekend that the most likely reason for this is to give players such as Bower and Hartlett a full four quarters of game time.

Although it was nice to win on Saturday night, I didn't leave the ground very satisfied, because I still found our selection policy slanted toward the present rather than the future.

The recent draftees are the future of this club.

Since 2004, we have drafted the following players:

2004 National Draft
Pick 9 : Jordan Russell, West Adelaide, SANFL
Pick 25 : Adam Hartlett*, West Adelaide, SANFL
Pick 41 : Luke Blackwell, Swan Districts, WAFL
Pick 77 : Anthony Raso*, Dandenong Stingrays U18

2005 National Draft
Pick 1 : Marc Murphy, Oakleigh Chargers U18 - (Priority selection)
Pick 4 : Josh Kennedy, East Fremantle, WAFL
Pick 20 : Paul Bower, Peel Thunder, WAFL
Pick 36 : Jake Edwards*, Western Jets U18

2006 National Draft
Pick 1 : Bryce Gibbs*, Glenelg, SANFL
Pick 17 : Shaun Hampson*, Mt Gravatt, Queensland - (Priority selection)
Pick 19 : Shaun Grigg*, North Ballarat
Pick 35 : Mark Austin*, Glenelg, SANFL
Pick 51 : Clinton Benjamin*, Claremont, WA
Pick 67 : Joe Anderson*, Darwin, NT

Of the 14 players above only 4 played. 28.6%.

That's not good enough for me. The above 14 are who we are relying on to make us a good team again. While it's early days, the NAB cup is when you play em. Essendon*, and every other team for that matter played their 1st years. We didn't (apart from Gibbs). Why?

I've seen enough of the team that played on Sat night to know that even if they improve a bit, they're still a bottom 8 (even bottom 4) team. I know it's hard to be realisitc when everyone's in a good mood, but really, it's an average 22 (when you cut 4 extras).

Why not Bower?
Why not Hartlett?
Edwards?
etc.
etc.

We stuck with guys like Saddington who are not the future (and some others who I won't name lest the masses rise against me).

Not happy Denis.

That's not good enough for me. The above 14 are who we are relying on to make us a good team again. While it's early days, the NAB cup is when you play em. Essendon*, and every other team for that matter played their 1st years. We didn't (apart from Gibbs). Why?

I've seen enough of the team that played on Sat night to know that even if they improve a bit, they're still a bottom 8 (even bottom 4) team. I know it's hard to be realisitc when everyone's in a good mood, but really, it's an average 22 (when you cut 4 extras).

Why not Bower?
Why not Hartlett?
Edwards?
etc.
etc.

We stuck with guys like Saddington who are not the future (and some others who I won't name lest the masses rise against me).

Not happy Denis.

Jarusa wrote:

A wise old sage told me on the weekend that the most likely reason for this is to give players such as Bower and Hartlett a full four quarters of game time.

Are you sure? I don't remember saying that.

TruBlueBrad wrote:

Jarusa wrote:

A wise old sage told me on the weekend that the most likely reason for this is to give players such as Bower and Hartlett a full four quarters of game time.

Are you sure? I don't remember saying that.

Me either

simonverbeek wrote:

We are still a young side mate and time will come when the youngsters get some quality game time. I dont like the fact that you are suggesting to fill teh whole side with 1 and 2 years draftees if they haven't earnt it.
Patience is a virtue my friend!

Bower - possibly deserved a run but instead he played 90 minutes at CHB in the VFL and was close to BOG. That was good for his confidence.

Edwards and Harlett - Both have had slightly interrupted pre-seasons and were far better served with 80-90 minutes in the VFL.

Your criticism of Saddington makes little sense. He is 27yrs old, played 140+ AFL games, has done a full preseason, is in great shape and recently beat Fev in the intra club game. He deserved a game.

If anything, I think Lappo and Kouta should have been rested more so than Saddo.

The selection policy was to reward those that had completed a solid pre-season and those who had put their best foot forward in every training session. Those that played deserved to be picked.

CFC needed an early win to continue the good vibe bought on by the president and the new board. You weren't going to get a win with 10 kids playing. Don't forget the majority of CFC players actually have to learn how to win again even if it is the NAB cup.

What we need is the 21-25 year old players being more consistent
WAITE
FISHER
BENTICK
CARRAZZO
SENTANTA'S
WIGGINS
WALKER
HOULIHAN

Thought the non-selection of Blackwell and to a lesser extent Bower were poor, and I told the former exactly that at the Family Day (keep perfoming and they won't be able to leave you out). They were two real positives for the club last year.

No spot for them... there's a six man bench! :roll:

Surely a great chance for rotation through the middle...

Author:	simonverbeek [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Not happy with selection policy
Although it was nice to win on Saturday night, I didn't leave the ground very satisfied, because I still found our selection policy slanted toward the present rather than the future. The recent draftees are the future of this club. Since 2004, we have drafted the following players: 2004 National Draft Pick 9 : Jordan Russell, West Adelaide, SANFL Pick 25 : Adam Hartlett, West Adelaide, SANFL Pick 41 : Luke Blackwell, Swan Districts, WAFL Pick 77 : Anthony Raso, Dandenong Stingrays U18 2005 National Draft Pick 1 : Marc Murphy, Oakleigh Chargers U18 - (Priority selection) Pick 4 : Josh Kennedy, East Fremantle, WAFL Pick 20 : Paul Bower, Peel Thunder, WAFL Pick 36 : Jake Edwards, Western Jets U18 2006 National Draft Pick 1 : Bryce Gibbs, Glenelg, SANFL Pick 17 : Shaun Hampson, Mt Gravatt, Queensland - (Priority selection) Pick 19 : Shaun Grigg, North Ballarat Pick 35 : Mark Austin, Glenelg, SANFL Pick 51 : Clinton Benjamin, Claremont, WA Pick 67 : Joe Anderson, Darwin, NT Of the 14 players above only 4 played. 28.6%. That's not good enough for me. The above 14 are who we are relying on to make us a good team again. While it's early days, the NAB cup is when you play em. Essendon, and every other team for that matter played their 1st years. We didn't (apart from Gibbs). Why? I've seen enough of the team that played on Sat night to know that even if they improve a bit, they're still a bottom 8 (even bottom 4) team. I know it's hard to be realisitc when everyone's in a good mood, but really, it's an average 22 (when you cut 4 extras). Why not Bower? Why not Hartlett? Edwards? etc. etc. We stuck with guys like Saddington who are not the future (and some others who I won't name lest the masses rise against me). Not happy Denis.

Author:	TruBlueBrad [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:
We have a young list and there are other young players who need the opportunity to impress. Don't worry about our 1st year players, they're still settling in...their opportunity will come. Lets not start giving them games for the sake of it. Let them get hungry. Most of the others have injury concerns to be honest, Bower, Hartlett, Raso certainly and I don't believe Blackwell played for the Bullants either.

Author:	Jarusa [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:
A wise old sage told me on the weekend that the most likely reason for this is to give players such as Bower and Hartlett a full four quarters of game time.

Author:	SA Blue [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:
It's about giving them ground time at this stage, in particular the 1st year players. They will get far more out of 4 quarters with the Bullants, tha rotation in the NAB cup. It would be nice this week to see some rotation, with the likes of Hartlett and Bower getting a go. Who to drop though?

Author:	TruBlueBrad [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:
Jarusa wrote: A wise old sage told me on the weekend that the most likely reason for this is to give players such as Bower and Hartlett a full four quarters of game time. Are you sure? I don't remember saying that.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

Not happy with selection policy http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14851	Page 1 of 2

Author:	marciblue [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:
sv, i agree with you somewhat. Not in terms of the selection policy on saturday night but the fact that our best 22 (whoever that might be) is still not in the best dozen teams in the league. Having said that, I still think that their probably wasn't much scope for different selections on Saturday night. I was happy for DP and co. to trial the defensive line up they did as I believe that Carlos will cement a spot in the defensive unit this year and the Waite at CHB experiment needs as much gametime as possible. T-bird is an automatic selection so that essentially excludes Hartlett, Edwards and co. This argument applies to the forward line too where Kennedy, Fisher, Fev and Lance are warranted selections at this stage given this grouping hasn't had much time together. The only recruit I was disappointed not to see on Saturday night was Anderson. I've liked what i've seen from him thus far Saddington deserves a go. He is now only truly fit and should not be allowed to fall by the wayside because he might not necessarily have a 5-10 year stint in front of him at Carlton.

Author:	Cazzesman [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Not happy with selection policy
simonverbeek wrote: Although it was nice to win on Saturday night, I didn't leave the ground very satisfied, because I still found our selection policy slanted toward the present rather than the future. The recent draftees are the future of this club. Since 2004, we have drafted the following players: 2004 National Draft Pick 9 : Jordan Russell, West Adelaide, SANFL Pick 25 : Adam Hartlett, West Adelaide, SANFL Pick 41 : Luke Blackwell, Swan Districts, WAFL Pick 77 : Anthony Raso, Dandenong Stingrays U18 2005 National Draft Pick 1 : Marc Murphy, Oakleigh Chargers U18 - (Priority selection) Pick 4 : Josh Kennedy, East Fremantle, WAFL Pick 20 : Paul Bower, Peel Thunder, WAFL Pick 36 : Jake Edwards, Western Jets U18 2006 National Draft Pick 1 : Bryce Gibbs, Glenelg, SANFL Pick 17 : Shaun Hampson, Mt Gravatt, Queensland - (Priority selection) Pick 19 : Shaun Grigg, North Ballarat Pick 35 : Mark Austin, Glenelg, SANFL Pick 51 : Clinton Benjamin, Claremont, WA Pick 67 : Joe Anderson, Darwin, NT Of the 14 players above only 4 played. 28.6%. That's not good enough for me. The above 14 are who we are relying on to make us a good team again. While it's early days, the NAB cup is when you play em. Essendon, and every other team for that matter played their 1st years. We didn't (apart from Gibbs). Why? I've seen enough of the team that played on Sat night to know that even if they improve a bit, they're still a bottom 8 (even bottom 4) team. I know it's hard to be realisitc when everyone's in a good mood, but really, it's an average 22 (when you cut 4 extras). Why not Bower? Why not Hartlett? Edwards? etc. etc. We stuck with guys like Saddington who are not the future (and some others who I won't name lest the masses rise against me). Not happy Denis. Simon I struggle to understand why people think there is a need to throw young and/or skinny kids into one of the toughest games on the planet after they have been at an AFL club for 5 minutes. What is the point? what does it really achieve? Do you want them to play 10 years or 10 minutes? The only one who may have been unlucky was..... Bower - possibly deserved a run but instead he played 90 minutes at CHB in the VFL and was close to BOG. That was good for his confidence. Of the others...... Edwards and Harlett - Both have had slightly interrupted pre-seasons and were far better served with 80-90 minutes in the VFL. Blackers was probably the stiffest out of them all but where was he going to play in the team. He had a solid 90 minutes on and off the ball in the VFL and that won't do him any harm either. Your criticism of Saddington makes little sense. He is 27yrs old, played 140+ AFL games, has done a full preseason, is in great shape and recently beat Fev in the intra club game. He deserved a game. If anything, I think Lappo and Kouta should have been rested more so than Saddo. Essendon* played 1 first year player in Houli (as we did) and 1 22 year old mature age player in Davey (as we did in Young). The selection policy was to reward those that had completed a solid pre-season and those who had put their best foot forward in every training session. Those that played deserved to be picked. CFC needed an early win to continue the good vibe bought on by the president and the new board. You weren't going to get a win with 10 kids playing. Don't forget the majority of CFC players actually have to learn how to win again even if it is the NAB cup. Regards Cazzesman

Author:	ACHILLES [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Not happy with selection policy
simonverbeek wrote: That's not good enough for me. The above 14 are who we are relying on to make us a good team again. While it's early days, the NAB cup is when you play em. Essendon*, and every other team for that matter played their 1st years. We didn't (apart from Gibbs). Why? I've seen enough of the team that played on Sat night to know that even if they improve a bit, they're still a bottom 8 (even bottom 4) team. I know it's hard to be realisitc when everyone's in a good mood, but really, it's an average 22 (when you cut 4 extras). Why not Bower? Why not Hartlett? Edwards? etc. etc. We stuck with guys like Saddington who are not the future (and some others who I won't name lest the masses rise against me). Not happy Denis. We are still a young side mate and time will come when the youngsters get some quality game time. I dont like the fact that you are suggesting to fill teh whole side with 1 and 2 years draftees if they haven't earnt it. Patience is a virtue my friend!

Author:	Electrical Blue [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:
Dumb thread.

Author:	killpies [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:
TruBlueBrad wrote: Jarusa wrote: A wise old sage told me on the weekend that the most likely reason for this is to give players such as Bower and Hartlett a full four quarters of game time. Are you sure? I don't remember saying that. Me either

Author:	Jarusa [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:
killpies wrote: TruBlueBrad wrote: Jarusa wrote: A wise old sage told me on the weekend that the most likely reason for this is to give players such as Bower and Hartlett a full four quarters of game time. Are you sure? I don't remember saying that. Me either The word old is the key word.

Author:	ACHILLES [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Not happy with selection policy
ACHILLES wrote: simonverbeek wrote: That's not good enough for me. The above 14 are who we are relying on to make us a good team again. While it's early days, the NAB cup is when you play em. Essendon*, and every other team for that matter played their 1st years. We didn't (apart from Gibbs). Why? I've seen enough of the team that played on Sat night to know that even if they improve a bit, they're still a bottom 8 (even bottom 4) team. I know it's hard to be realisitc when everyone's in a good mood, but really, it's an average 22 (when you cut 4 extras). Why not Bower? Why not Hartlett? Edwards? etc. etc. We stuck with guys like Saddington who are not the future (and some others who I won't name lest the masses rise against me). Not happy Denis. We are still a young side mate and time will come when the youngsters get some quality game time. I dont like the fact that you are suggesting to fill teh whole side with 1 and 2 years draftees if they haven't earnt it. Patience is a virtue my friend! What we need is the 21-25 year old players being more consistent WAITE FISHER BENTICK CARRAZZO SENTANTA'S WIGGINS WALKER HOULIHAN If thse players step up every week then we will be better than a bottom four side! Basically "Simonverbeek" we are putting more pressure on the kids. Give the kids 3 good years to become mentally and physically fit for AFL football!

Author:	Lygon Legends [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:
Thought the non-selection of Blackwell and to a lesser extent Bower were poor, and I told the former exactly that at the Family Day (keep perfoming and they won't be able to leave you out). They were two real positives for the club last year. No spot for them... there's a six man bench! Surely a great chance for rotation through the middle...

Author:	simonverbeek [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Not happy with selection policy
Cazzesman wrote: Bower - possibly deserved a run but instead he played 90 minutes at CHB in the VFL and was close to BOG. That was good for his confidence. Benefit of the doubt should go to the young guys. If he possibly deserved a run, he deserved a run. He is the future. Quote: Edwards and Harlett - Both have had slightly interrupted pre-seasons and were far better served with 80-90 minutes in the VFL. Would rather they got a taste in the NAB cup when the heat's not on. It's time to see if Hartlett can play a bit. They've got the whole year to rule Cramer st. Quote: Your criticism of Saddington makes little sense. He is 27yrs old, played 140+ AFL games, has done a full preseason, is in great shape and recently beat Fev in the intra club game. He deserved a game. Won't play in a flag for Carlton. We should've used the pick instead of trade it for him. Pagan is covering his arse playing him. Even if Saddo plays well and earns us one or two more wins - big deal. All it will cost us is a priority pick, and he won't be a part of our future. Play Bower instead. Quote: If anything, I think Lappo and Kouta should have been rested more so than Saddo. Agree Quote: The selection policy was to reward those that had completed a solid pre-season and those who had put their best foot forward in every training session. Those that played deserved to be picked. Fair enough, but I think we need to promote youth more actively a la Hawthorn. As I said in my first post, we know a lot about the team that ran out on Sat night, and it's generally not a successful outfit. We should look to the future more (especially in the Pre-season to give em a taste). Quote: CFC needed an early win to continue the good vibe bought on by the president and the new board. You weren't going to get a win with 10 kids playing. Don't forget the majority of CFC players actually have to learn how to win again even if it is the NAB cup. It's obvious that that was the logic, i just don;t agree with it. Wins mean very little at this stage. We need to develop the kids. I'm not saying play em all and throw them to the wolves, but 4 out of 14 is not enough. [/quote]

Author:	17th Premiership [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:08 am ]
Post subject:
I'm not so worried at this stage. Pre-Season is for: 1) Preparing players for the real season 2) Finding out a thing or 2 about players with questions 3) Exposing young players to senior football without risking 4 points 4) Generating some hope, membership sales & sponsorship candidates Kouta & Lappin fit into the 1st category. Saddington fits into the 2nd category. Plus a fit & firing Saddington will be a helpful experienced hand for the swag of young'ns that we look like ushering into the team throughout the yr. In order to test out those in category 2 & 3, needs to be a bit like sensitivity analysis - helpful to keep some variables constant in order to test out the value of those being tested. ie. Can only test only 2 or 3 at a time, keeping a good chunk of regulars in place. So, I expect there will be a couple rotations for the next match (eg. from Bower, Blackwell, Hartlett, Anderson) so that when the season starts, we have a better idea of who are the probables and who are the possibles. As distinct from the Aust cricket team...

Page 1 of 2	All times are UTC + 10 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	simonverbeek [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Not happy with selection policy
ACHILLES wrote: What we need is the 21-25 year old players being more consistent WAITE FISHER BENTICK CARRAZZO SENTANTA'S WIGGINS WALKER HOULIHAN WAITE - good player. PLenty of work to do still FISHER - I really would like to see him succeed, and I know he's a favourite to many posters, but I struggle to see how a player that kicks the ball like Fisher is a long term AFL prospect. I would play Edwards Bower or Hartlett ahead of him until he shows in the Ants that he can kick. BENTICK - I have time for bentick but gibbs and murphy aren;t quick and will be regulars. He'll have to be outstanding to earn a spot ahead of quicker players. CARRAZZO - magnet, but usage is very questionable. Would rather blackwell replace him in the long term SENTANTA'S - showing great signs. ONe of the few hopeful signs on Sat night WIGGINS - Yeah, nah, yeah nah. Maybe WALKER - does everything brilliantly, then has to kick it. Obviously a long term player HOULIHAN - good player despite the odd hiccup. So achilles - my point is that we need much more to come through than the above players. IN the NAB cup, when clubs are experimenting, i'd like to see more than 4 out of 14 draftees, who are our only hope at ever being successful again.

Author:	dadadadada [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:
Of the 14 players listed only two of them - Murphy and Blackwell are on the short side - the others are tall at 188cm and above. Taller players tend to be more leaner and play in positions that require body strength. The smaller players can start their way by getting into space and the way footy is played today have no problems in getting some possessions. What I am saying is that smaller players are easier to introduce into AFL football. Notice Essendon* introduced two smalls in Houli and Davey. Saddington gives us the flexibilty we need so badly. Having him allows us to try other things ... don't be suprised if Thornton starts bobbing up in the forward line this year if things continue to go well with Setanta and Waite. Be patient as we are moving in the right direction. I have more of a concern with the number of players we have that lose their nerve when shooting for goal.

Author:	BlueWorld [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:
Lygon Legends wrote: Thought the non-selection of Blackwell and to a lesser extent Bower were poor, and I told the former exactly that at the Family Day (keep perfoming and they won't be able to leave you out). They were two real positives for the club last year. No spot for them... there's a six man bench! Surely a great chance for rotation through the middle... But there was a unique opportunity to give Young & Jackson a run, which won't be possible once the real season starts (unless there's a LTI).

Author:	Humpers [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:
I don't have a problem with the first year players missing out, however both Bower and Blackwell should been picked IMO.

Author:	Molly [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:03 am ]
Post subject:
My guess is that Bower and Blackwell missed out so that we could give Young and Jackson a run. It really is a 50 / 50 call - do you give the rookies a chance at AFL level during the only time they are allowed to play, or do you give the kids a run? I was happy enough with selection on Saturday night. If we are going to improve in 2007, I think the improvement will come from the guys who were selected.