Over the last couple of years we certainly have replenished our stocks and added much needed depth all over the ground.

We have generally been impressed with our forward personnel in the past, albeit they failed to kick winning scores, with only Coleman King Fevola the clear superstar in the team, and the only clear forward winner in 2006.

In the past we were concerned about:

1. Defense: A real problem: Short, Light, Inexperienced (given Thornton as our No1 defender he was still a kid)

Livingston (didn't make it)
Saddington (injured)
Martyn (joke)
Thornton (biggest to stand up and be counted)

2. Midfield depth issue (we had so few midfielders there were no rotations, players tired towards Q4, and heavily tagged out of the game by rotating taggers.

Stevens (heavily tagged)
Kouta (getting older, overcoming knee injury...still great clearance player)
Campo (tagged and battered, and only a receiver)
Hulme (all heart)

3. Forwards: Realistically One dimensional. Although it had been considered our strength, but the problem is that the ball didn't get down there enough, let alone we were Fev focussed.

Fevola (played against 2-3 opponents every week; other forwards did not present)
Fisher (palyed too defensive upfield; kicking issue)
Waite (played up the ground; kicking issue)
Whitnall (played upfield and too defensive)
Betts (inconsistent, small and easily brushed aside; great defensive worker)


TODAY:

Defense: we have competition for positions with the inclusion of a few young guns

Thornton
Walker
Setanta
Bower
Waite
Saddo, Hartlett, Flint, Austin

Midfield: we have added depth and gained experience and class with the inclusion of Gibbs, Murphy, Simmo,

Stevens
Kouta
Scotland
Lappin
Murphy
Gibbs
Simpson
Houlihan
Carrazzo
Blackwell, Bentick, Betts, Russell, Wiggins
Benjamin, Grigg, Anderson, Jackson

WHO IS GOING TO KICK OUR GOALS IN 2007?

Forwards?

Fevola 80-100 (4 per game)....can do!
Kennedy 40-50 (2).................hasn't made the grade yet
Fisher 20-30 (1).....................kicking an issue, and presents in the midfield a lot.
Whitnall 30-40 (2)..................must play forward
Betts 20-30 (1)......................doesn't always get on the scoreboard

OK, That's 10 goals...is not a winning score! :oops:

I expect that a change in game plan, ie more attacking style should give us more goals. That's game plan dependent = Pagan dependent = player ability to understand it. That's a big if, and my main concern.

I might be wrong with my summation, but I think it's close and conservative enough, so where are the other goals going to come from?

Rucks : Ackland (1).......

Midfield; Stevens (1), Simmo (1), Lappin (2).......

What do you think?

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I think ideally you want more goals from the midfielders. 5-7 goals per week between those running forward and those resting up forward. If Kouta spends a lot of time up forward you could expect 1-2 goals per week.

Expecting Kennedy to kick 40-50 goals is a bit of a stretch also. Swap his goals tally with Lance though and you're even.

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Really nice summary bondi. Love the new look backline and midfield. In terms of forward line structure, I think Fisher will play deeper in the forward line this year and from the training sessions I have witnessed - his kicking for goal has improved and he has been working hard on it. Would be hoping for 2 goals from him a game.

Think we can also expect a few more goals out of our midfield this year - Gibbs will rest on the forward line and has proved in the SANFL that he is capable of kicking goals. Murphy will also kick a few, as well as Simpson, Stevens, Houlihan, Lappin, Scotland.

I'd also expect Ackland and Cloke to kick a few goals between them if they rest down in the forward line. Ackland in particular has shown some good forward skills during training drills - being a strong lead, mark and a reasonable kick for goal.

I think the point is that while hopefully Fevola's output is very similar if not greater than last year with more and improved delivery from the midfield, there will also be a greater spread of goalkickers due to a faster, more attacking gameplan and also more options and a desire to not be so Fevola conscious.

TBB wrote



Exactly what I think too!

It's a bit of a stretch expecting Kennedy to kick 2 goals every game (I know he kicked 3 in the intra club game), but the kid is learning how to present and control the CHF position, so I'm expecting him to lead up the ground a bit to link the midfiels attack with the forwards, and when deeper crashing packs to feed the rumbers ...Betts, Murphy, Simmo, Lappin...(ala Spalding)...he'll hold a few (as he did with that mark against Geelong last year....and what a mark it was....GOLD)

So the thing that stands out to me is that Whitnall should be our forward this year...adding experience and a good avenue to goal, giving us 2 proven targets to start with: Fevola and Whitnall.

We probably will lose Waite to the defense or wing (could be a pinch hitter), so we need another 2 genuine marking targets.

Fisher!

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Cheers TTD2004!



Ackland IMO yes ! As for goals I think Cloke is
Who takes the ruck role when Ackland is 'resting' forward? Cloke? Is he mobile enough for that role, because he aint tall enough IMO.

This is why I think Hampson will get game time this year. Sure he'll get killed in the body stuff, but at least he'll be good around the ground.



Very interesting. Scotland. He has proven to be a goal kicker at Carlton and Magpies...robbing Peter to play Paul...taking him out of defense. Does he play HBF, or Defensive wing as I believe, because that would imply he's out, despite the fact I reckon he's a good defensive forward.

I think Gibbs is the other one along with Fisher who WILL kick goals in 2006. Good hands, Good Size, Good skills and very smart reader of the game.

Houlihan and Lappin are obviously natural forwards IMO....so where does all this leave Bettsy?



Fisher: I expect will use his athleticism to present up the ground as a link man a lot...even way out at the wing from HFF.

I really hope the forwards build a game plan that keeps the opposition guessing. Mix it up, rotate in the forwardline with Fev, Josh, Fish, Lance and Ackland.

Same with the smalls with Lappin, Houla, Gibbs, Murphy, Simmo and Stevens (Carrots can stay in the midfield with the rotations).

There's only 22 positions on the ground. What happens to Betts?

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Backline better on paper. But still short on experience. Should settle & improve over the year.

Midfield rotations looking much more positive but still weakness in ruck and I think expectations for Gibbs & Murphy are very high and Simmo has yet to prove he is able to maintain his great form year to year (eg.Harvey, Buckley, Bradley etc...). Still positive about midfield though - we were able to be quite competitive on several occasions in midfield last year against quality opposition until we ran out of legs which should be better this year.

Our forwards are good. Agree that Whitnall needs to go forward so that we have the Big 4 (Fev, Whitnall, Kennedy & Fisher) & maybe even Kouta at times stretching the opposition with 2 smalls as well.

The big changes to forwards this year must come from: 1. Multiple targets, 2. Better delivery

(btw, historically, we have always scored well when our midfielders kick goals, rather than relying mainly on key forwards - although the times are a changing, I guess.)

Fair summary from Bondi


Fev will have to kick most of them.
Kennedy...more of a workhorse CHF who creates for others, will have his days but I wouldnt be expecting big bags of goals.

Fisher should kick goals but couldnt kick over a jam jar least season.

Eddie...will have his days...

Lance......I think Lance is the key...insetad of looking for easy kicks across half back I think he needs to be played forward and be a multiple goalkicker each week.

Gibbs....is a goalkicker and I would expect him to rest on the half forward line when he isnt playing midfield and kick a few .

Ackland and Cloke...wouldnt be expecting much output from either....

We are a goalkicker short IMHO and thats why I was keen on Aaron Edwards or Justin Westhoff to take some pressure off Fev....
It all hinges on Lance Whitnall IMHO....

Wildcards.....Adam Hartlett to play forward, nice kick and strong body..I wouldnt be adverse to playing Adam out of the forward pocket and seeing if he can offer something..

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Agree 17th Premiership. Lets not get ahead of ourselves; we're still on the inexperienced side. Hence the importance to have leaders/ experience spread across the ground.

Backline: Thornton, Scotland, Walker and/or Saddo
Midfield: Ackland, Kouta, Stevens, Houla, Simmo
Forwards: Whitnall, Fevola, Lappin

17th wrote



Better delivery should come from the likes of Gibbs, Murphy, Stevens, Simmo, Houla, Kouta and Lappin in the midfield. If Gibbs and Lappin/ Houla are forwards then we can take 2 away off that list. Better delivery must happen, and we must work on it this year, as well as better positioning / presenting from leading forwards (and not out to the boundary, if we can help it).

I think this year we'll make plenty of mistakes, but show a lot of promise.

So back to the goal kickers in a typical game:

Forwards and Midfielders to kick:

4 FF Fevola (4 per game)
4 CHF Lance / Kennedy (1+3 or 2+2)
2 HF Fisher / Gibbs (1+1)
2 FP Lappin / Betts (2+0 or 1+1)
2 Fol Ackland / Cloke / Kouta (1+2 or 2+0)
3 Mid Stevens/ Simmo/ Murphy/ Houla (1+1+1 or 1+2)

17 in Total

Looks better.

We should aim for:

1. To win the game
2. Kick 20 goals per game
3. Develop our kids
4. Find the right spot for each player
5. Verstality.

But we must kick goals.

What role will Bettsy play this year? Does he make the 22, with all the abovementioned midfielders, notwithstanding that Grigg, Benji, Edwards and Anderson who may also get / push for game time this year...or at least get a sniff)?

I'm not expecting too much in 2007, just improvement with our kids, and building a team committed to teamwork. But if we get better in 2007 and are closer to winning because of the new added class, then we must reward them with a goals and wins!!

Wins = Confidence.

Big year expected from Setanta, Bower, Gibbs, Kennedy, Fish, Houla, Simmo and Waite. If they all stand up and step up...2007 will be light years from the last dark 5 years.

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What i'd like to see us do more of this year is allow our midfielders (ie: Murphy / Stevens / Simpson etc) have a shot on the run.

If we don't have a leading target to kick to or if it's to congested then just have a shot. Run in it as far as you can and go for it.

The Brisbane Lions were the best in the business at doing this with Voss, Aka, Black & Lappin.

If it were up to me i'd play a consistant two man forward line of Whitnall & Fevola. (Sure Whitnall is instrumental in our defense but these two play of each other so well!)

Kennedy & Fisher to play accross the Half Forward line.

Betts to roam inside the F50 and around the boundary line.

If opposition players drop two players back on fev.................give a licencse to Murphy / Stevens / Gibbs / Kouta / Simpson to have a shot on the run.

Quite a few times last year i noticed teams throwing back their ruckman in defense...............if that be the case then just throw Ackland into the the goal square, he may not have the height but he has the body weight and with these pathetic new rules the AFL have introduced any defender playing with a height advantage is gonna have a hard time NOT to give away a free kick with a shorter player playing body-on-body contest.

I saw Murphy quite often having a shot at goal on the run from 50mtrs out when he was playing for Oakleigh and from memory i think he did it a few times in the NAB championships too!

Gibbs can do it.

We all know Kouta can STILL do it.

Stevens used to be able to do it.

Simpson would get-off on doing it!

The way i see it, if you play a Fev / Whitnall forward line you'd be looking at 15goals easy. Whitnall would kick 3 himself and set up double that amount. Fev could be consistant with 4 goals. Kennedy & Fisher chipping in with 1 or 2 each and Ackland dropping back every so-often for 1 or 2, the rest could come from midfield & if Murphy / Stevens & Simpson are having a good day then it's possible they could bag a couple each.

That's 15 goals EASY!

Remember, i've put Whitnall back to the Forward line not for his goal kicking ability, but more so for his awarness & his set-ups.
The one thing i loved about Whitnall in defense is that he is the best in the business at playing loose................but put him on a man and he can be outrun easilly.
By playing loose, he had the freedom and the space to see the play forming.
Our next best player at this is Lappin. Throw him into the role Whitnall played so well last year and at least try, for just a few games, a Fev / Whitnall combo!

Have faith in players like Bower / Setanta / Waite / Walker in defense. Yes they are still young and learning the positions but with experience & leadership from Lappin and the trustworthy & consistant Thornton as back-up i believe they can do it.

in Summary..............
last year i thought our game plan (in simple form) was more of 'Trying to stop the other team from scoring 100+points'.
This year i'd like to see us 'Trying to SCORE 100+points'

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- Aristotle

accuracy is the issue.

for the last few years we have been very poor at converting our opportunities in front of goal

its a nasty cycle we are in.

kick a goal
= scorboard pressure
= go back to middle for a 50/50 contest
= momentum
= confidence

miss a goal
= release of pressure
= hand the ball back to opposition
= loss of momentum
= drop in confidence


i also think we need more goals from our midfield.

so as long as our fwd's improve their conversion, this will enable our midfielders to spend less time chasing their opponents and defending and hence the ability to get fwd and hopefully kick more goals

the think is its not just 1 think that needs to be improved, there needs to be overall improvement.

ElwoodBlue1 wrote:



That's what I'm afraid of...but no doubt he'll kick the most...I hope 100.



Now that's realistic



There you go...where's his goals going to come from? Fingers crossed.



So does this imply we are carrying him on the other days...for mine, I think he gets lost abit too much. As a FP he must kick goals...or face the same fate as Medhurst.



That's the ticket!



Another must! and fair enough too in his first year of AFL.



Ackland I expect will kick 20 for the year.That's a lot to expect.



That's what I've been seeing...and that needs to be rectified. Hence, like you Elwood...





I think somewhere a long the line (and not at the end of the season), Hartlett should be given a shot in the forward line. He is the Wildcard. If he doesn't end up FB, then he may be the guy to replace Lance when he retires in a couple of years.

Nice one Elwood.

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Be sent to Collingwood???

that's pretty harsh

Ryan 2000



Midfielders have got to be part of the goals package.



Because they can.





Waite can't play HF and defense ryan2000. But yeah he's verstalie enough to do so...do you mean ...position him depending on which way and how hard the wind is blowing?

IMO Ackland will be much better for Carlton than French ever was.

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I'm expecting or midfield combo of Murphy, Simpson, Stevens, Gibbs and Scotland to contribute more this year.

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SORRY..........................................was supposed to say Fisher / Kennedy accross half forward.

_________________
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

bondiblue wrote re Bettsy:


rhys 27 wrote


Yeah I know it's harsh. But we have built a list full of class and potential. This is going to be a fact of life for Carlton moving forward. Thank God for That too! No more retreads needed! Never were!

If a player wants a position in Carlton's First 22, then you've got to earn a position and make a position work for you and the team. If you're not performing...that means Bullants, at the very least.

At the end of this season, and every season following 2007, draft rules stipulate that it is compulsory for every team to unload a minimum 3 players from the list.

OK Kouta will retire so that's 1 player off the list, but then again he might not! Same with Lappin.

My guess, the following 6 players are playing for their careers in 2007:

End 2007: McLaren, Teague, Bannister, Saddington, Lappin and Kouta.

Age (and 2007 performance) may save the following come end 2007 (but end 2008 watch out): Hartlett, Raso...maybe even Wiggins and Betts (not trying to start anything here).

ie next 2 years a minimum 6 players will be delisted. I'ver named 10...so 4 may survive, others may be injured, retire, be traded as well.

Competition for positions will bring out the best and worst in players. Either way CARLTON WINS.

Now give us some goals Bettsy.

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The backline and midfield is looking reasonably settled but 12 + 13 goals is not gonna be good enough when the real stuff starts. We're struggling to kick decent scores.


more goals please ----

The real test will be whether or not Pagan can come up with a plan to beat the flooding.
Last night the Hawks had 14 players in their defence.
Fevola, Whitnal and Kennedy had nowhere to run and had to push up the ground to get their share of the ball.
All 3 of these guys will take a contested mark if the ball is bombed into the forward line quickly, but that won't happen every time.
It isn't realistic to expect 40-50 goals this year from Kennedy if we are going to be flooded all the time.
Fev will kick his 4 or 5 a week, even if he is mobbed because he plays in front and contests. If he is continually mobbed he will also get his share of free kicks as well.
Whitnal's marking/smarts will help him in a flood and the small players like Betts, Gibbs, Murphy, etc can kick goals from the spills.
Murphy and Gibbs look like they will be regular contributors. If they don't kick one themselves, they are setting them up for others.
Simmo could bob up with his ability to kick long.
Kouta will kick a few. His kicking wasn't good against the Hawks but he presented well and found space as usual.
Theoritically we could kick only ten goals a week. Maybe it could be 15 a week?
One thing is for sure - Pagan will have to be flexible enough to alter his game plan with his big 3 up forward.
A pleasant change of problems for us!

you have to take into account that the quarters are 2 and a half minutes shorter than normal but still i guess we do need an extra 2 or 3 goals from somewhere. hopefully, captain lance will be able to provide them when the real stuff starts.

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Last edited by true_blue3 on Mon Sep 26, 1981 5:07 pm; edited 92 times in total

Fev to kick 8 each match...

...oh, and *more seriously* Stevens to kick more than one a match.