TalkingCarlton
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

Pagan / Mitchell and leadership
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14551		 Page 1 of 12
Author:  Koutamagic [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Pagan / Mitchell and leadership
http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/real ... 94920.html

love her or hate her, I gotta agree with her.

hate or love pagan, why not support him while he is there.
Author:  BluesRockMyWorld [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah its a pretty good article by caro standards.

The Mitchell issue she raised is an interesting one. I think she is right with their continuing to be disunity within the coaching group whilst Barry is still around.

Anyway Pagan has this yearto at least implement some form of exciting gameplan. If we get smashed then so be it - Id rather see the kids been given licence to attack than running around in circles trying to flood all the time!!
Author:  ryan2000 [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes well, hmmmm! I remember i got shat-on last year when i suggested that the realtionship between Mitchell & Pagan might have been fragile.

I can understand it from Pagan's point of view.

I can understand it from Mitchell's point of view.

At the end of the day they both had to do what they had to do.

But regardless, Mitchell is VERY important to out young kids and alot of credit must go to him too (Especially for players such as Setanta).

I don't want to loose Mitchell. He might not (in some peoples opinions) be good enough for the top job but he is a valued asset to this club and were lucky to have him.
Author:  ryan2000 [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
Anyway Pagan has this yearto at least implement some form of exciting gameplan. If we get smashed then so be it - Id rather see the kids been given licence to attack than running around in circles trying to flood all the time!!


Ditto! BRILLIANT POST! Aggree 100%.
Author:  daggs001 [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pagan / Mitchell and leadership
Koutamagic wrote:
http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2007/02/06/1170524094920.html

love her or hate her, I gotta agree with her.

hate or love pagan, why not support him while he is there.


I actually think its one of her poorer attempts.She usually has me interested in her articles.There is nothing new here.

She seems to be doing her best tro turn any positive spin coming from the new board into a negative about the club.She found very little positive and plenty of rehashed negatives..........move on, lets see what the new board brings.
Author:  blueblood95 [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
The funny thing is...

If we can win a couple of early games, the club will automatically unite and Caro's comments wil be history.

We must be competive early to wash away five years of pain.

I am a bit sick of talking/hearing about the board. I hope that all of this bullshit can piss off by about round 10 when we are (fingers crossed) 5 & 5 with over 32 000 members and some positive press.
Author:  billc3 [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
ryan2000 wrote:
BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
Anyway Pagan has this yearto at least implement some form of exciting gameplan. If we get smashed then so be it - Id rather see the kids been given licence to attack than running around in circles trying to flood all the time!!


Ditto! BRILLIANT POST! Aggree 100%.


WestCoast last year....who's unhappy about that loss??
Author:  Orangewhip [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
billc3 wrote:
ryan2000 wrote:
BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
Anyway Pagan has this yearto at least implement some form of exciting gameplan. If we get smashed then so be it - Id rather see the kids been given licence to attack than running around in circles trying to flood all the time!!


Ditto! BRILLIANT POST! Aggree 100%.


WestCoast last year....who's unhappy about that loss??


I was just a little unhappy when the final siren went. :wink:

If the boys can put in 15 performances this season like their game against West Coast last year then it will be a very positive season. Russell was awesome in that game, as was Wiggins, two of the boys who we need to be consistent from 2007 on. They were a different unit for the majority of that game. Biggest buzz of the year for me bar the Round 1 win against the Dees and seeing Murph sing We Are the Navy Blues.
Author:  Rod Waddell [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Flower them both off isay. They both are a part of our worst period in history.......need to let go of the stench.
Author:  billc3 [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Orangewhip wrote:
billc3 wrote:
ryan2000 wrote:
BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
Anyway Pagan has this yearto at least implement some form of exciting gameplan. If we get smashed then so be it - Id rather see the kids been given licence to attack than running around in circles trying to flood all the time!!


Ditto! BRILLIANT POST! Aggree 100%.


WestCoast last year....who's unhappy about that loss??


I was just a little unhappy when the final siren went. :wink:

If the boys can put in 15 performances this season like their game against West Coast last year then it will be a very positive season. Russell was awesome in that game, as was Wiggins, two of the boys who we need to be consistent from 2007 on. They were a different unit for the majority of that game. Biggest buzz of the year for me bar the Round 1 win against the Dees and seeing Murph sing We Are the Navy Blues.



...and Murphy...allrrgghh (drools like Homer!)
Author:  Blue Vain [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pagan / Mitchell and leadership
Koutamagic wrote:
http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2007/02/06/1170524094920.html

love her or hate her, I gotta agree with her.

hate or love pagan, why not support him while he is there.


When he starts offering the skills of a good coach, I'll happily support him as one.
Author:  TheGame [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
What does she know about Barry Mitchell's coaching ability? She should keep the footy stuff out of her gossip columns.
Author:  Koutamagic [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
let me start by saying I'm not a Pagan lover or hater.

Although he has not had much success with the team, we must all consider that he has had one of the worst list going around for a few years and it takes a good 3-4 years to develop up and coming players.

Some positives he has brought to the club include development of Walker, Simpson, faith shown in Carrazzo, Bentick and Blackwell. Not to mention bringing in Sentanta and Aisake to the club and recognizing that these guys are an investment for the longer term. There is also the Fevola factor and the re-invention of Scotland in the backline. His game plan admittedly has not been effective and he needs to adapt (with the new assistant coaches, I think he will), but in terms of developing a team for the future, I think he has done extremely well. I think in a couple of years time, we will be strong again, the question is whether Pagan will be around to enjoy the hard work that he has put into it.
Author:  markj [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
blueblood95 wrote:
The funny thing is...

If we can win a couple of early games, the club will automatically unite and Caro's comments wil be history.



Rounds 1 - 3 season 2007

Richmond, geelong , Essendon* .. we can win 2 or even all of these .. no worries

its a great draw to start with actually .. a real litmus test .. lets face it , only the 4 points count in the end

no-one ever raves about a great board meeting ! .. or sings the song with gusto after training .. its the flower 4 points up for grabs every week that will make and break a clubs season

the time is now .. time for the players to show the way .. whatever it takes to get the 4 points .. the old boys in the board room cant do it for them

its time for the professional athletes chosen to play for this club, having been given the best possible training and coaching our staff can provide, to show the people like me who buy a membership, who give up their weekends to get to the game in the hope that Carlton are in the winners list this week .. the desire that is needed to take home those 4 points

i expect to be in the 8 after round 3 ... from then on its down to injuries, form and all the other things that face every other club , ever other year

so come on lapps, kouta, fev, murf, tbird, carlos, walks, stevo, simmo and each and every one of the 22 that pull on the cfc jumper at game time .. do it for yourselves, do it for the 4 points

the recovery will happen .. 4 points at a time !!

.. go blues ..
Author:  Crusader [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pagan / Mitchell and leadership
daggs001 wrote:
Koutamagic wrote:
http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2007/02/06/1170524094920.html

love her or hate her, I gotta agree with her.

hate or love pagan, why not support him while he is there.


I actually think its one of her poorer attempts.She usually has me interested in her articles.There is nothing new here.

She seems to be doing her best tro turn any positive spin coming from the new board into a negative about the club.She found very little positive and plenty of rehashed negatives..........move on, lets see what the new board brings.


Mandatory 1,000 words... There was not much point to this article. I don't think she's trying to cite a riot - she just ran out of things to say... Kind of like Vince Sorrenti's stand-up routine.
Author:  SurreyBlue [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
markj wrote:
Rounds 1 - 3 season 2007

Richmond, geelong , Essendon* .. we can win 2 or even all of these .. no worries

its a great draw to start with actually .. a real litmus test .. lets face it , only the 4 points count in the end

no-one ever raves about a great board meeting ! .. or sings the song with gusto after training .. its the flower 4 points up for grabs every week that will make and break a clubs season

the time is now .. time for the players to show the way .. whatever it takes to get the 4 points .. the old boys in the board room cant do it for them

its time for the professional athletes chosen to play for this club, having been given the best possible training and coaching our staff can provide, to show the people like me who buy a membership, who give up their weekends to get to the game in the hope that Carlton are in the winners list this week .. the desire that is needed to take home those 4 points

i expect to be in the 8 after round 3 ... from then on its down to injuries, form and all the other things that face every other club , ever other year

so come on lapps, kouta, fev, murf, tbird, carlos, walks, stevo, simmo and each and every one of the 22 that pull on the cfc jumper at game time .. do it for yourselves, do it for the 4 points

the recovery will happen .. 4 points at a time !!

.. go blues ..


Magnificent Post.
Author:  marciblue [ Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:53 am ]
Post subject: 
I haven’t noticed it written up anywhere so I thought I’d add it here but listening to Kouta last night on SEN, the Ox asked him about the DP v Mitchell situation and the Kouta was almost ashamed of the whole situation and you could tell he was very displeased with the whole saga.

He tried not to be blatantly critical of the situation but he did say that he has never seen such circumstances between members of a coaching group; confirmed that the two DO NOT SPEAK (probably common knowledge around here but I visit TC infrequently nowadays) and that pretty the whole arrangement is pathetic!

I heard Malouf earlier in the day and he was more political in his responses and trying his best to downplay the impasse but Kouta didn’t use the same approach and essentially was very critical and embarrassed with the situation.

It hadn’t really bothered me until I heard Kouta’s response. He was making out that it was immature and unacceptable.

Something has to give AFAIC! :evil:
Author:  buzzaaaah [ Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:01 am ]
Post subject: 
Of course Kouta is ashamed. He should be. Its probably the biggest farce in the AFL attm.
Its the one thing that the media have still got over us and they won't let it go.
It needs to be the priority. Sack Mitchell now.
He made a play for the top job, it failed. He has to go. If he had honour and love for the club, he would go now and without fuss. He shouldnt be waiting for one of his mates to tap him on the shoulder.

It was a farcical decision by a farcical board and it cant continue.
Author:  Koutamagic [ Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:06 am ]
Post subject: 
I believe Mitchell has got to go.

The fact is, Pagan has been endorsed as the seniors coach. The decision has been made and I don't think it will be overturn any time soon. Pratt knows that we do not need another saga and will also know that the Pagan brand is still valued in the football circles and amongst sponsors. Pagan is still a big name and from all reports this pre-season, he may have accepted that a change in coaching and tactical style is required.

If Pagan can't work closely with Mitchell, who is responsible for developing our players, then Mitchell has got to go. Ratten can take over the Bullants and is also a stepping stone for Ratten to eventually become seniors coach.

Current situation stands, there is NO winner. It is not a win-win for the players, club, coach or adminstrators. I'm sure something will happen.
Author:  ryan2000 [ Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:23 am ]
Post subject: 
NO!

Why should Mitchell go?

I don't believe he stabbed Pagan in the back for one moment. He was asked if he would like to apply for the position and he said yes..............what was he supposed to say? 'No Thanks'? - Rubbish!

As far as Mitchell was concerned, Pagan was out-&-out Gawn........i'm betting he probably was like most of the supporters & media alike who would have put money on Pagan being paid out. Then all of a sudden a total 180degree turn-around by a pathetic & immature poor-excuse for a board is gonna be the reason for Mitchell being sacked? What a crock.

I aggree that something MUST be done, but to sack EITHER of Pagan/Mitchell now would be a disgrace as really, it's neither of their's faults that our previous board couldn't organise a root in a brothel.

Micthell as a coach is fantastic. I'm a big fan of his.
- The way he comunicates with our youth
- His passion for an 'attacking' style of play.
- The ability to turn a quater.
- His un-expected match-up's (which sometimes make me cringe only to prove me wrong 9times out of 10)

He is a coach in waiting and is to important to the up & coming players. Go watch him this year and see how much he gets out of players like Snake & Jacko & Flint! I honestly believe that there is not one player in the bullants who wouldn't throw themselves on a live grenade if Barry asked them too.

Pagan on the other hand, well i can't say this for sure but there has always been a 'feeling' or 'rumour' that he doesn't have the full support of the players.

You all know my feelings on Pagan and i'll say this even if he HADN'T given me a phone call last year...................We canot sack him now! We had our chance and we chose a different path.

We now need to show him 100% support.

I think in all honesty, Pratt & Sticks need to sit both Pagan & Mitchell down and demand they sort out their differences.

If they still can't sort out their differences then SACK EM BOTH. Because neither one deserves to be there more than the other. And to be quite honest, if two men who claim to be coaching a TEAM of 22 + players expecting them to believe in them and support them BUT CANNOT show a little sense of maturity then neither of them deserve to be at Carlton!

I've been stabbed in the back once. And yeah, it hurt alot. As fate would see it, that same guy who stabbed me in the back was employed by the next company which i worked for and despite how hurt i still was, he was once again my co-worker.
It was not in any way my new boss's responsibilty nor was it his fault and nor did it have anything to do with him..................so why the hell should he have two co-workers not talking to each other? He pays us to do a job, and we did it.

I worked with that guy for another year before heading out on my own.

I hate him still, and i wont talk to him anymore. But i worked with him nonetheless and never let that interfear with our work.

If i can do it then surley two well respected men such as Mitchell & Pagan can sort this shit out!

Quote:
Current situation stands, there is NO winner. It is not a win-win for the players, club, coach or adminstrators. I'm sure something will happen.
- YUP! i aggree with you on that.

I don't mind the Ratten idea also. I think he'd be great with the kids!
Page 1 of 12 All times are UTC + 10 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/