TalkingCarlton :: View topic - should we leave P.P?

Seems like too difficult a question for people to answer...probably because it is! Depends on wha the options are...seems like in order to have elite training facilities, you need to tie it in to a community project so as to get government and council fundings, a la Lexus Centre, Whitten Oval etc.

So, whether it is at PP, or somewhere else, we need to get involved in a govt/council project to deliver the Club, and the community, elite facilities.

The problem I have with Stage 2, is that the Smorgon seemed to believe it was the ONLY way to sort out the finances. What that is saying is that they were giving up on being financially viable as a football club. Ridiculous. You may as well say we are going to build a shopping centre and sort out our financials that way. No difference, really.

Yes, clearly we need to identify and develop new revenue streams. However, 15 other clubs run their businesses are football entities. A couple in Melbourne are struggling, but the others all manage to exist that way. Melbourne were able to turn their whole club around in a matter of a few years when Gardiner came on board, through effective football management, and they have fewer members than us. Collingwood did the same when Maguire took over.

Sorry, off the track a bit DB, but...we need to get football basics right, that is our bread and butter...then look at other options to suppliment that or strengthen that further. If that means developing PP to stage 1, great. If Stage 2 comes off, even better...then we go from being a successful football business to a power house. If it means moving from PP to elite training facilities that also help our financial position, then so be it. Sad, but look at where moving to Lexus has taken Collingwood as a club.

Dannyboy,

Obviously we need to look at all our options and not discount moving. The Council development will mean we end up with significantly upgraded training facilities but that still won't pay for the upkeep of the stands and ground. A Blue Museum on site and relocating the AFL experience from the City to Princes Park may help, however all that depends upon overcoming the residents opposition group.

I believe the loss of our social club income from Princes Park was significant on our revenue stream and the proposed Council redevelopment (as against the Unity development plan) does not address that issue so we need to look for other revenue options. Whether or not the Council would allow us to redevelop one stand into a conference and restaurant centre would need further investigation and discussion with Council.

If we can't overcome the residents opposition to any redevelopment of the ground then I think we have no choice but to look for somewhere else possibly closer to Docklands.

Siegfried wrote:

Have a look at the location Victoria Park and the attitude of the Council there, nothing like what is projected for MC Labour Park would ever get off the ground.

MC is our spiritual home and if it can be developed in the way that The Unity Group suggested, then it will underpin us financially for many years to come. It would also allow us to rid of the AFL in the very near future.
I think it is incumbent on the new Board to investigate this proposal fully and. if it stacks up, then they should push for it to be done.

Finally, who should be President, Greg Lee or Steven Moulton

waldo48 wrote:

Siegfried wrote:

I agree with you Waldo, by all means, investigate it, and if it is viable, do it. I just have a problem with relying on that project as the sole way of underpinning the survival of the football club, without getting the football club basics right. That's fraught with danger. It's like saying, 'we give up on the football club, we're just going to set up some investment scheme to sort us out'.

why is it a perfect fit?

Parkville is a sleepy hollow, all activity happens in Carlton, Flemington or Brunswick. Not much happens around Parkville except joggers running the tan and the school kids from the High school, do we expect joggers to be our passing traffic?

I have no doubt that a stage 2 development of some kind will happen eventually. whether it eventuates as currently proposed or in an alternative manor....

why is it a perfect fit?

Parkville is a sleepy hollow, all activity happens in Carlton, Flemington or Brunswick.

its a liabity if it remains in the 19th century

Author:	dannyboy [ Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:39 am ]
Post subject:	should we leave P.P?
just wondering... It seems to me that the only plan anyone can come up for this club involves redeveloping the ground. Is that the way to go? Has time passed P.P. by? Should we just move to somewhere more vibrant, more in the interests of the club? Are we wasting money throwing it (and all our energies) at P.P? is it time to let go, hand it back to the council and find a better home?

Author:	Siegfried [ Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:48 am ]
Post subject:
Seems like too difficult a question for people to answer...probably because it is! Depends on wha the options are...seems like in order to have elite training facilities, you need to tie it in to a community project so as to get government and council fundings, a la Lexus Centre, Whitten Oval etc. So, whether it is at PP, or somewhere else, we need to get involved in a govt/council project to deliver the Club, and the community, elite facilities. The problem I have with Stage 2, is that the Smorgon seemed to believe it was the ONLY way to sort out the finances. What that is saying is that they were giving up on being financially viable as a football club. Ridiculous. You may as well say we are going to build a shopping centre and sort out our financials that way. No difference, really. Yes, clearly we need to identify and develop new revenue streams. However, 15 other clubs run their businesses are football entities. A couple in Melbourne are struggling, but the others all manage to exist that way. Melbourne were able to turn their whole club around in a matter of a few years when Gardiner came on board, through effective football management, and they have fewer members than us. Collingwood did the same when Maguire took over. Sorry, off the track a bit DB, but...we need to get football basics right, that is our bread and butter...then look at other options to suppliment that or strengthen that further. If that means developing PP to stage 1, great. If Stage 2 comes off, even better...then we go from being a successful football business to a power house. If it means moving from PP to elite training facilities that also help our financial position, then so be it. Sad, but look at where moving to Lexus has taken Collingwood as a club.

Author:	waldo48 [ Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:
Siegfried wrote: Seems like too difficult a question for people to answer...probably because it is! Depends on wha the options are...seems like in order to have elite training facilities, you need to tie it in to a community project so as to get government and council fundings, a la Lexus Centre, Whitten Oval etc. So, whether it is at PP, or somewhere else, we need to get involved in a govt/council project to deliver the Club, and the community, elite facilities. The problem I have with Stage 2, is that the Smorgon seemed to believe it was the ONLY way to sort out the finances. What that is saying is that they were giving up on being financially viable as a football club. Ridiculous. You may as well say we are going to build a shopping centre and sort out our financials that way. No difference, really. Yes, clearly we need to identify and develop new revenue streams. However, 15 other clubs run their businesses are football entities. A couple in Melbourne are struggling, but the others all manage to exist that way. Melbourne were able to turn their whole club around in a matter of a few years when Gardiner came on board, through effective football management, and they have fewer members than us. Collingwood did the same when Maguire took over. Sorry, off the track a bit DB, but...we need to get football basics right, that is our bread and butter...then look at other options to suppliment that or strengthen that further. If that means developing PP to stage 1, great. If Stage 2 comes off, even better...then we go from being a successful football business to a power house. If it means moving from PP to elite training facilities that also help our financial position, then so be it. Sad, but look at where moving to Lexus has taken Collingwood as a club. Have a look at the location Victoria Park and the attitude of the Council there, nothing like what is projected for MC Labour Park would ever get off the ground. MC is our spiritual home and if it can be developed in the way that The Unity Group suggested, then it will underpin us financially for many years to come. It would also allow us to rid of the AFL in the very near future. I think it is incumbent on the new Board to investigate this proposal fully and. if it stacks up, then they should push for it to be done. Finally, who should be President, Greg Lee or Steven Moulton

Author:	dannyboy [ Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:
I hope they investigate it with an open mind

Author:	amazonstud [ Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:
Dannyboy, Obviously we need to look at all our options and not discount moving. The Council development will mean we end up with significantly upgraded training facilities but that still won't pay for the upkeep of the stands and ground. A Blue Museum on site and relocating the AFL experience from the City to Princes Park may help, however all that depends upon overcoming the residents opposition group. I believe the loss of our social club income from Princes Park was significant on our revenue stream and the proposed Council redevelopment (as against the Unity development plan) does not address that issue so we need to look for other revenue options. Whether or not the Council would allow us to redevelop one stand into a conference and restaurant centre would need further investigation and discussion with Council. If we can't overcome the residents opposition to any redevelopment of the ground then I think we have no choice but to look for somewhere else possibly closer to Docklands.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

should we leave P.P? http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14502	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Sydney Blue [ Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:
I thought we did

Author:	waldo48 [ Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:03 am ]
Post subject:
amazonstud wrote: Dannyboy, Obviously we need to look at all our options and not discount moving. The Council development will mean we end up with significantly upgraded training facilities but that still won't pay for the upkeep of the stands and ground. A Blue Museum on site and relocating the AFL experience from the City to Princes Park may help, however all that depends upon overcoming the residents opposition group. I believe the loss of our social club income from Princes Park was significant on our revenue stream and the proposed Council redevelopment (as against the Unity development plan) does not address that issue so we need to look for other revenue options. Whether or not the Council would allow us to redevelop one stand into a conference and restaurant centre would need further investigation and discussion with Council. If we can't overcome the residents opposition to any redevelopment of the ground then I think we have no choice but to look for somewhere else possibly closer to Docklands. You can thank Collins and his desire to get us to Telsta for the demise of the Social Club.

Author:	dannyboy [ Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:19 am ]
Post subject:
no SB we just don't play there but I worry about talk of turning PP into a buiisness/restaurant complex. It just seems the wrong area to me. I worry we might continue to repeat the same mistake.

Author:	Siegfried [ Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:
waldo48 wrote: Siegfried wrote: Seems like too difficult a question for people to answer...probably because it is! Depends on wha the options are...seems like in order to have elite training facilities, you need to tie it in to a community project so as to get government and council fundings, a la Lexus Centre, Whitten Oval etc. So, whether it is at PP, or somewhere else, we need to get involved in a govt/council project to deliver the Club, and the community, elite facilities. The problem I have with Stage 2, is that the Smorgon seemed to believe it was the ONLY way to sort out the finances. What that is saying is that they were giving up on being financially viable as a football club. Ridiculous. You may as well say we are going to build a shopping centre and sort out our financials that way. No difference, really. Yes, clearly we need to identify and develop new revenue streams. However, 15 other clubs run their businesses are football entities. A couple in Melbourne are struggling, but the others all manage to exist that way. Melbourne were able to turn their whole club around in a matter of a few years when Gardiner came on board, through effective football management, and they have fewer members than us. Collingwood did the same when Maguire took over. Sorry, off the track a bit DB, but...we need to get football basics right, that is our bread and butter...then look at other options to suppliment that or strengthen that further. If that means developing PP to stage 1, great. If Stage 2 comes off, even better...then we go from being a successful football business to a power house. If it means moving from PP to elite training facilities that also help our financial position, then so be it. Sad, but look at where moving to Lexus has taken Collingwood as a club. Have a look at the location Victoria Park and the attitude of the Council there, nothing like what is projected for MC Labour Park would ever get off the ground. MC is our spiritual home and if it can be developed in the way that The Unity Group suggested, then it will underpin us financially for many years to come. It would also allow us to rid of the AFL in the very near future. I think it is incumbent on the new Board to investigate this proposal fully and. if it stacks up, then they should push for it to be done. Finally, who should be President, Greg Lee or Steven Moulton I agree with you Waldo, by all means, investigate it, and if it is viable, do it. I just have a problem with relying on that project as the sole way of underpinning the survival of the football club, without getting the football club basics right. That's fraught with danger. It's like saying, 'we give up on the football club, we're just going to set up some investment scheme to sort us out'.

Author:	Zippy [ Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:
Siegfried wrote: waldo48 wrote: Siegfried wrote: Seems like too difficult a question for people to answer...probably because it is! Depends on wha the options are...seems like in order to have elite training facilities, you need to tie it in to a community project so as to get government and council fundings, a la Lexus Centre, Whitten Oval etc. So, whether it is at PP, or somewhere else, we need to get involved in a govt/council project to deliver the Club, and the community, elite facilities. The problem I have with Stage 2, is that the Smorgon seemed to believe it was the ONLY way to sort out the finances. What that is saying is that they were giving up on being financially viable as a football club. Ridiculous. You may as well say we are going to build a shopping centre and sort out our financials that way. No difference, really. Yes, clearly we need to identify and develop new revenue streams. However, 15 other clubs run their businesses are football entities. A couple in Melbourne are struggling, but the others all manage to exist that way. Melbourne were able to turn their whole club around in a matter of a few years when Gardiner came on board, through effective football management, and they have fewer members than us. Collingwood did the same when Maguire took over. Sorry, off the track a bit DB, but...we need to get football basics right, that is our bread and butter...then look at other options to suppliment that or strengthen that further. If that means developing PP to stage 1, great. If Stage 2 comes off, even better...then we go from being a successful football business to a power house. If it means moving from PP to elite training facilities that also help our financial position, then so be it. Sad, but look at where moving to Lexus has taken Collingwood as a club. Have a look at the location Victoria Park and the attitude of the Council there, nothing like what is projected for MC Labour Park would ever get off the ground. MC is our spiritual home and if it can be developed in the way that The Unity Group suggested, then it will underpin us financially for many years to come. It would also allow us to rid of the AFL in the very near future. I think it is incumbent on the new Board to investigate this proposal fully and. if it stacks up, then they should push for it to be done. Finally, who should be President, Greg Lee or Steven Moulton I agree with you Waldo, by all means, investigate it, and if it is viable, do it. I just have a problem with relying on that project as the sole way of underpinning the survival of the football club, without getting the football club basics right. That's fraught with danger. It's like saying, 'we give up on the football club, we're just going to set up some investment scheme to sort us out'.

Author:	DenimUndies [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:
I have no doubt that a stage 2 development of some kind will happen eventually. whether it eventuates as currently proposed or in an alternative manor or whether it happens under this new administration remains to be seen but the further/continuing development of the location will happen at some point. The location is excellent, the proposed function is a natural fit with unique Melbournian/local cultural values the utility further enhances the prominence and continuing function of that zone. There is no reason why such a development will not happen. The obstacles are purely matters of influence on the final solution not the intent.

Author:	dannyboy [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:
why is it a perfect fit? Parkville is a sleepy hollow, all activity happens in Carlton, Flemington or Brunswick. Not much happens around Parkville except joggers running the tan and the school kids from the High school, do we expect joggers to be our passing traffic?

Author:	jimmae [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:
dannyboy wrote: why is it a perfect fit? Parkville is a sleepy hollow, all activity happens in Carlton, Flemington or Brunswick. Not much happens around Parkville except joggers running the tan and the school kids from the High school, do we expect joggers to be our passing traffic? Perhaps the upper class of North Carlton seek a pissy little hub of their own that isn't as far as Lygon or isn't populated with the rabble of Sydney Road and the students of Melbourne Uni? Seems like the club is adjusting to suit all those whinging local council members that have stone-walled changes in the past. Good for them, take the arrogant toffs for all they're worth. Apologies to those in that area who use student accomodation or broke the mould.

Author:	jezzarules [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:
DenimUndies wrote: I have no doubt that a stage 2 development of some kind will happen eventually. whether it eventuates as currently proposed or in an alternative manor.... There goes the child care & car parking

Author:	dannyboy [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:
is it an asset or a liability? What makes it an asset? History? Faciliaties? Shared partnerships? The surrounding parklands? The tramline? Grandstands for when we don't play? Pictures of past heroes? A social club no one goes to? Just what exactly? And your stupid rolling eyes response just shows why this club is so [REDACTED] at the moment. Its about questioning everything we do and taking nothing for granted - ask Smorgon, take things for granted and they bite you hard on the arse! oh and before you ask oh rolling eye one, I have a membership so I guess I get to think and ask and vote just like you. Whoi knows I may even make contributions in other ways, just like you.....

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Author:	DenimUndies [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:
dannyboy wrote: why is it a perfect fit? Parkville is a sleepy hollow, all activity happens in Carlton, Flemington or Brunswick. Thats because there is no facility in Parkville at present to accommodate anything other than the activities you have mentioned.

Author:	dannyboy [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:
so you expect people to drive to Parkville? From where? For how long?

Author:	winfieldblue [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:
PP is our only asset and u want to get rid of it?

Author:	winfieldblue [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:
its a liabity if it remains in the 19th century

Author:	Jarusa [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:
winfieldblue wrote: its a liabity if it remains in the 19th century The 1800's!!