My dad says cooperfidies.

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BM, if youre going to throw the word "balance" around. Perhaps you can enlighten those of us who dont have the advantage of going to training and what percentage of sessions does our Vice Captain stay back at training and spend time with 90% of the list who do stay back and most of those are under the age of 23.
If youre talking leadership maybe you can get on your bike and pedal down to Moorabin and look at how many times Hamill and Harvey stay back with the stKilda kids. then if youre not too tired from that bike ride you might want to have a look at some of the other senior players from other clubs.(Brad Johnson at the Doggies is another example.
I think those of us who are fortunate enough to go to training dont miss Lance and Campo still shooting up the tunnel like rats up a sewer pipe the minute training is done.
thats not leadership. Its a refelction on the rest of their professionalism as senior players on a young list.

Its part of the past culture where we didnt even see our captains, at times, this side of Xmas . Training alone hardnosing contracts.
These guys believe thet they one one group (the elite group) and the kids are in a lesser group. ....

That must be your take on leadership!

We badly need leadership and senior players who really care.!!!

Good points Synbad and you are exactly correct. I personally think Nick Stevens should be our next captain, as his enthusiasm and his wanting to succeed attitude is exactly what we need.

We need a captain to feel really bad when they and their team have a bad game. Not someone who smiles when they come off the ground and think there is always next week.

Don't get me wrong I love Campo, Whitnall and Kouta but for too long they have commanded the big bucks and not cared about anyone but themselves. Kouta in particular, does he not feel bad that he hasn't been on the park for the last 3-4 years and still takes all that money. He, and I am sorry to say is a really big reason why we lost players and missed out on getting players. Campo is the same, what example is he setting to the younger guys by getting intimidated the way he does. He absolutely gets sucked in by opposition players, and he gets put off his game too easily. He is too predictable.

Whitnall's leadership is not much better, letting his body get in the shape it has.

We absolutely do lack leadership. Look no matter what you may think of players like Teague, Prendergast, and French. They would never be leaders of an elite side. We simply need more players to take a bit of pride and really want to succeed to the next level.

You may have a point (somewhat rehashed) about Campo and Whits, but Kouta?

In the words of the great John McEnroe, you cannot be serious.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

I am absolutely serious about Kouta. Somewhere along you line, if you love your club and care about its survival, you ask yourself. I am always injured, am commanding big bucks, the club is heavily in debt and asking players for pay cuts.

Granted he did take a pay cut in conjunction with a contract extention or his payments were back ended. Whatever. Don't you feel bad getting so much money for not contributing much. Maybe I am old fashioned and feel I need to earn my money. I don't know. He cannot even run around on the spot anymore. You have to question your value to a team when you cannot even do that. I want a player to say to himself, if I cannot perform to a high standard, then I cannot accept anything less. This is where leadership comes in.

Sorry I am rambling, but I am so pissed we have had such salary cap problems with these type of players.

People then have the gall to say we shouldn't pay Fevola $400+. He has won so many games off his own boot in the last couple of years. He is the reason why Carlton are becoming popular again. All the kids love Fev. He does more for Carlton than just playing and kicking goals. He cannot kick bags every week to be a contributor.

The leadership Stevens is displaying is fantastic at the moment. He is the one I see gathering other players in the midfield and talking tactics. I don't see any of our other supposed leaders do that. Leadership is more than being a superstar, and even a consistent performer. It is all about Pride and wanting to be the absolute best and not wanting anything less.

You don't remember that Kouta took a pay cut?

I sometimes wonder if some would have preferred that Campo, Whits and Kouta walked out on the club ala Hamill.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

Playing a half of footy with a caved in face displayed not only courage but also leadership Synbad. It takes a lot of courage and leadership to play half a season with a knee that you can barely bend while others are taking potshots at you as Whitnal did last year

As for training Synbad I spent many a training session at Optus pretty much alone prior to and during the dark time Synbad, long before you graced the terraces, and would may still be going if I did not have responsibilities in other areas, but then my plan was to help the club when it was most needed, having done that I am content to move on. Interestingly the players that were working their butts off and gave me hope at that time were Kouta, Lance and Campo, the three you now hold up as being representative of the 'old' culture

When the contracts were done Synbad many thought we were getting a good deal given what the going rate at the time was for 'marquee' players. We were and are not the only club caught out in this way. The contracts will be sorted at the end of the year, as they should and the players themselves acknowledge that.

I don't know Synbad we do disagree on this, you draw on your knowledge and experience I draw on mine. Maybe having spent so much of my life as an athlete first in football, then Triathlon and now Karate I know how hard it is to come up week after week, to perform when injured and know what it is like to have some idiot tell you how crap you are when you have busted a gut, sacrificed your game for the team. Truth is if you have not been in the white heat of battle, you cannot know what it is like, not have played at AFL level I have no real idea, an inkling maybe, but thats all. You have an opinion Synbad, it has the same value as the next persons, no more, no less. But when you set yourself up as an "oracle' of the club, you can expect to be 'challenged', have 'the heat applied’ 'to be tagged' and 'in the white heat of battle' Synbad you act as petulantly as you accuse Campo, shame that you do not play as well

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

No I don't, but sometimes I wonder that if they had somewhere to go they certainly would have. Do you think Whitnall would still be here if a club seriously wanted him ? We will see the answer to that question at the end of the year if he has a good season.

Granted Campo has been very loyal, and so has Kouta. But again would you walk if you were paid the amount they have been given. I think not.

Unfortunately we are never going to have a player like Kernahan again. An absolute champion of a player who got paid no where near what he deserved. An absolute legend of a leader. The little things he did on the field, and I don't mean his playing feats where unbelievable.

Youre right BM, i have never played the game at AFL level.... Either have you.So what would you know???

What i have done is employed people and i know a cheat when i see one. I can sniff out a cheat in the workplace a mile away...


Busted a gut???You mean in the negotations stages right?

Truth is you havent been in the white heat of the battle either.Have you????

The contracts will be sorted out at the end of the year???I know they will be
You mean to tell me you sat there and did reports on circle work when so much more was happening???
Give me the terraces anyday.. compared to what you look at .

Maybe one of the issues here and a nice one I must admit, is the absolute quality and quantity of some of our past leaders and champions, looking at our history we have indeed been blessed. They standard they have set is extraordinarily high, so a player who may actually in fact be a good leader amngst his peers may appear lesser when compared to sme of our past greats

Hamil is a good example, at Carlton he was not seen as a leader, a very good player but not a leader and yet at St Kilda he is considered as amongst thier best ever.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

Hamill leads by example on and off the field.
Sure he is a mercenary.. but he started a situation at stKilda where older players took younger players under their wing. He took Riewoldt and taught him commitment .

Who does Campo mentor at the club?
Whitnall??
I know Franchina mentored Setanta.

Maybe we allowed the wrong 500k player to leave???

Franchina was on 500k????

Hamill has also become, once leaving the Blues, one of the dirtiest players in the AFL. Tough? Hardly.

Not sure what "commitment" he has taught Riewoldt aside from the type that is better kept from the public.

Synbad takes a swipe at BM in the pack. Misses. BM gathers possession and runs downfield looking for an open player. Synbad abuses first gamer for not laying the tackle.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

Did you hear the crowd roar in your head too???



Verbs, re Hamill...he may be a dirty player but he is a commited footballer.
He is very average as far as skills and as a player are concerned but he is an important player . Those around him do walk taller.. and yes he mentored Riewoldt and one or two others.
Riewoldts turned out ok hasnt he??
He does not lack courage or confidence.
He always had the skill (Number 1 pick) but still he had to become a great player..Hamill certainly helped extract that.

Thats because Hamill is involved with the youngsters as was Nathan Burke, Stewie Loewe, Robert Harvey., and Thompson is too as well.

You dont really think they won all those games because of Thomas do you?

I think that would in spite of Thomas Synbad.

BTW Couldn't hear the crowd for my team mates mobbing me after slotting a long bomb from 55m


BBTW Since when did Hamill became an example of all things good to Carlton supporters? Geez we have slipped.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

All 1?

You know when you were doing all that BM, why didnt you have Denis Commetti commentating in your head instead of Michael Christian?????

Yes , i imagine the crowd would have been very loud in there.....deafening even....

............anyway.. moving right along..

Well... Hamill is a dog for pissing off i would never want him back but he does show up our inadequacies.... lack of leadership in particular.
Fortunatley there are a couple coming through.
In my opinion there should be no doubt that Stevens should lead the club next year.
Not having a go at Kouta but we need someone who will take us into the future.
Young side and a young captain would be terrific. theyre going to be together for a long while this group.

Juzzy for captain...he'll rise to the challenge

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Sorry, just doing a little "60 minutes" style cut and paste editing to suit my point of view.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill