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Pagan is a genius
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13887		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Sal [ Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Pagan is a genius
Over the past months there have been many threads with respect to Board splits, Board leaks, the composition of the Board, opinions on the Coach and the make up of his football staff. Some of these opinions have merit and some are simply borne from frustrations from club members frustrated by a lack of success.
In the last few days we have all had views on the supposed interference from the Board with respect to the Zantuck fiasco which in the cold light of day wasn't about whether a bloke could or couldn't play footy but I would hope an informed decision taking past indiscretions and testimonies from past employers of that particular chap in to consideration that may have had a negative impact on our club should those same beheviours be repeated.
At this point of time the club cannot take that risk, we've already got a band of mavericks in our playing group that push the envelope on a social level we don't need anymore.
The thing that staggers me is when is somebody going to put two & two together and see that maybe and probably likey it is infact D. Pagan who is controlling the media leaks with his cozzy little friendships with Hutchy, Carro and the like. He his playing this game off the field with an experience unmatched by many at the club if not the game. All he does is load the gun and those little people within the media fire the gun. The end result and I'm positive time will tell is that he can sit back and say I told you so.
Hollywood made a film some time ago with a plot in principle similar called "Wag the Dog". Well in this case Pagan is the Producer, the Board are the US government and us poor mugs are the public.
I have no opinion on whether Pagan should or shouldn't be retained as coach based on match day performances but if this off field trend continues and it is him that has brought this confused attention to the club he should be exposed for the rat he will be viewed as.
Don't be fooled here people, he is letting more out the bag than we know and to people who have the effective mediums to expose the stuff he doesn't want to conform with. Ask yourselves this question, what motivation do unpaid Boardmembers have to leak info except if they were a flower but what motivation would an ageing coach who is in all likely hood at the end of a credible career have to keep himself in a 800000K chair

As I say, he's a genius.
Author:  BrizzyBlue [ Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:07 am ]
Post subject: 
Is that you Smorgo? :P
Author:  Sal [ Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:19 am ]
Post subject: 
Just a casual observer, but your question leads to another topic on whether Smorgon should be there but out of repsect for you question, I think he's fighting out of his division - got to go
Author:  blueslander [ Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:46 am ]
Post subject: 
If what you say is true Sal then at least someone at the club has some idea about media relations. The amount of shit that we get is amazing. I am surprised that for a club that has languished at the bottom of the ladder for so long that we can get any column inches at all, but it seems that we manage to be back page news (in Melbourne) at least the entire off season.

Any sponsor associated with the club could not complain about the coverage that we get... the context, well that is another issue.

What I want to know is how Denis can do Denis speak the entire season when it comes to how we are performing as a team and then in the off season be so candid about the Board intervening on his decisions.
Author:  keogh [ Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:02 am ]
Post subject: 
I dont know if your correct Sal but one of the gun holders Caro said on AW last night that she hadnt spoken to Pagan for 3 months. So where do the leaks com from. She also reckons given Pagan's frankness on KB's show on Wed , that he is fed up with the board.

Sal, its obvious that Pagan deep down is getting to the point where he will pull the pin.


You cant have such a fractured board coach relationship.


Pagan is a cagey old fox, but i doubt he has been responsible for all the leaks to the media.
Author:  Barnesy [ Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:54 am ]
Post subject: 
We have jumped 28 of 32 hurdles..... :-D
Author:  ryan2000 [ Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Barnesy wrote:
We have jumped 28 of 32 hurdles..... :-D


4 more to go and we can FINALY dance with our sister!
Author:  George Harris [ Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:06 am ]
Post subject: 
Watch out for her though - she'll piss down your back and tell you it's raining.
Author:  kingkerna [ Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:11 am ]
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Caro also said she felt sorry for Dennis. Nearly crashed my car when I heard that.
Author:  bluehotel [ Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Me too KK. When she expressed sympathy i was in disbelief.

The hair lipped one can certaintly surpirse at times.
Author:  bluechucky [ Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:20 am ]
Post subject: 
kingkerna wrote:
Caro also said she felt sorry for Dennis. Nearly crashed my car when I heard that.


Where have you been.... she's been saying that for months.
Author:  Sniff Wilson [ Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:23 am ]
Post subject: 
people hear what they want to hear, believe what they want to believe.


Earlier this year, everything was Pagan's fault. Now it's Smorgons and the boards.

It's very predictable. It wont be long before the people on this forum will be signing the praises of Denis and demanding his new contract be signed.


:roll: :roll: :roll:
Author:  ADP [ Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:44 am ]
Post subject: 
This is a credible view, but it also is founded on the belief that there is only one leak within the hierarchy at Carlton.

Whilst Pagan may be leaking info to manouver himself into clean working space, I personally know of another at that club who isn't Pagan doing the same.

In all reality, if there are three distinct camps (Board, Footy Dept including Barry Mitchell et al, and Dennis Pagan) then there are most likely leaks of information coming from all three camps to push various agendas that may well be mutually exclusive with each other.

To procalim Pagan as genius is going too far. After all, it's clear to all that anyone in his situation would almost certainly "leak" info in order to protect himself against negative public opinion for reasons that you state.
Author:  SparkyBlue [ Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Sal, nice theorizing - but it just doesn't add up... in fact, it comes across as complete nonsense. It's true, Pagan-haters would love to believe this - that he is the driving force behind our media leaks - but for somebody who speaks half the time in riddles and stupid *i admit it* 'Paganisms', he doesn't come across as the type to meddle too much in our off-field situation...

Question though - if true, what is his motivation? Another question - it's good to speculate, but do you have any evidence to prove that this may be true?! And to what end would Pagan wish to create media leaks?? A resentment? An unexplainable urge to tarnish the image of the club? Eh, doesn't add up. :?

Me, I'd prefer to target Smorgon and his piss-poor attempts at 'spinning' his way out of bad media aimed both at the club and himself... talk about someone that's trying to piss down my back... :evil:

And I've got Smorgo's membership letter to prove it too... talk about bulldust.
Author:  dane [ Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:08 am ]
Post subject: 
George Harris wrote:
Watch out for her though - she'll piss down your back and tell you it's raining.


Gold George. Just got asked what I was laughing so much at.
Author:  Sal [ Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Firstly let me thank you for your diplomatic responses to my original post.

Blueslander - I guess the reason a for a club that languishes at the bottom of the ladder to attract so much attention is inherent of an organisation that has been as successful as ours and more importantly the perceived arrogance displayed when we were leading the charge.

Keogh - I agree with your views and I've no doubt he is fed up with the Board and maybe even justifiably which is exactly why he is playing the game.

ADP - I have absolutely no doubt all factions are trying to pull the strings though I just think Pagan has better allies in the Puppets we've already spoken about in "she with the speech impediment" and the little rogue who hosted the B & F.

SparkyBlue - don't confuse this suggestion as nonsense just because you can't see it. I never at any stage demonstrated that I was a Pagan hater and in fact hold a healthy level of admiration for someone who has coached AFL Premierships.

I think we'd all have to agree on one thing, the marriage between club and coach is almost if not already untenable, the biggest issue is getting the club through it with as little damage as possible.
Author:  Synbad [ Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
If Denis was capable of such ingenuity .. surely he could conjure up a game plan that works too???
Author:  SparkyBlue [ Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sal, in a hypothetical sense yes, wouldn't it be interesting if it was in fact Pagan who was responsible for our clubs leaks... but you had done nothing in proving this past a mere hypothetical. In trying to pass it off as plausible, no in that case I can't see it - and with no reasons to back up your theory it is - for all intents and purposes - interesting nonsense.

And I never claimed you were a Pagan-hater, just said that those who don't like him would enjoy reading your post...!
Author:  Sal [ Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Synbads reply wins..........
Author:  SparkyBlue [ Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
...I didn't know this thread was a competition? :roll:
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