TalkingCarlton :: View topic - No Zantuck Pagan Told.

Why would you trust Pagans judgement?

Headcutter wrote:

Why would you trust Pagans judgement?

I don't! Let's get rid of him.

"Let's get rid of him" What a stupid post.
What great plan do you have in mind???

blue-insider wrote:

"Let's get rid of him" What a stupid post.
What great plan do you have in mind???

'Sack Pagan and move on', I know it's mind blowing and a little over your head but just try and take the most you can from it.

The main issue here is DP talking about internal decisions. The board did not over rule him, but rather the other recruiting team. I think we are making far too much of what would be a common occurence at most clubs. It it intriguing though that DP did air it, rather than keep a closed shop.

Its an absurd situation when everyone knows Brett Ratten is the coach in waiting....it will delay the development of our younger players and stifle the progress of the club having Pagan masquerading as senior coach.....

Author:	Warby [ Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:	No Zantuck Pagan Told.
I hesitate to put up this info from the Ch.10 news tonight. In a training interview; Pagan (amazingly) admitted on camera that he was out voted about drafting Zantuck; who he believed "would have been a good hard at it influence on the younger kids." Of course; the reporter added that there were internal problems obviously at the Club. How does this make Cloke feel.....that he was not wanted first up by the Coach? Perhaps it'll make him try harder.....I hope!

Author:	Passion Blue [ Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:39 pm ]
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Firstly why is Sticks doing 2 things (director and football department manager) when the board said a while ago that all persons were not to do more than one thing within the club, and secondly and most importantly why do the board keep interfering with the coach dictating to him who to get, what to do, how to coach and so on. At the end of the day when our on field performances are below par the coach is the one that cops all the s**t and the blame and he's the one that's gonna cop the ass if we don't improve so why not let him do the job he's hired to do and then if things go wrong you can blame him and whip his ass...

Author:	TheGame [ Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:40 pm ]
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Why have a coach if we don't trust his judgment?

Author:	Headcutter [ Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:52 pm ]
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Why would you trust Pagans judgement - he has coached us to our worst results in the history of the club - He seems to love rejects and what could he possibly see in Zantuck - The bloke is too slow, not tall enough, kicks abhorantly and has had the wrong attitude around his previous clubs. At least Cloke has the unknown element to him and there is a 50:50 chance that he may turn out to be a handy pick up.. If we had drafted Zantuck it would have been a massive step backwards. I dont like Pagan and I dont like or respect the board but on this occassion I applaud the board. As for Pagan his amazing reveleation substantiates my belief that in fact he is trying to destabilize the board. He is a toxic weed that needs to be watched very very closely. Well done board

Author:	TheGame [ Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:58 pm ]
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Headcutter wrote: Why would you trust Pagans judgement? I don't! Let's get rid of him.

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Author:	Rhys26 [ Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:06 pm ]
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What a shambles the Carlton football club has become. The coach undermining the board via the media surely has to be the last straw before something gives. We have no hope the longer Malouf, Smorgon and Pagan remain at Carlton.

Author:	Blues2005 [ Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:06 pm ]
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Sorry but no matter who the coach, in this situation the coach should get his way. The coach is paid to deal with football matters and the board is in place to focus on board matters. The board has clearly undermined Pagan here by meddling in football affairs (vetoing the coach's decision). The coach should be allowed to recruit who he likes - and consequently he should rightly cop it if the recruit in question fails. Therefore when it comes to football matters and making decisions on players like Zantuck, the buck stops with the coach. This is stripping Denis of his power to make those decisions (which in this case some might say is a good thing) but there is still the principle and Denis (or any coach) should not have to put up with that. Denis doesn't tell the board what they should and should not do; the board should let Denis (and whoever the coach at the time is) do their job.

Author:	jezzarules [ Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:08 pm ]
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Bad form by Smorgan to say he couldn't remember it being discussed by the board. John Howard may get away with that kind of BS but not a footy club prez. It either was or wasn't discussed and he should have the balls to explain their decision - not leave it for Denis to have to either lie or contradict.

Author:	Elwood Blues1 [ Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:10 pm ]
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Obviously they dont trust him but he has that thing called a contract which keeps him as a figurehead coach and a bloke called Demetriou remote controlling the direction of the club from AFL house..... Its an absurd situation when everyone knows Brett Ratten is the coach in waiting....it will delay the development of our younger players and stifle the progress of the club having Pagan masquerading as senior coach.....

Author:	Warby [ Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:15 pm ]
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Whichever way you look at it....it's not good to be airing things like this in personal interviews on the TV News. I've always thought Denis answered these questions with "Denis Speak"....with humour....this is not a good sign.

Author:	Sergeant.Blue [ Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:27 pm ]
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TheGame wrote: Headcutter wrote: Why would you trust Pagans judgement? I don't! Let's get rid of him. "Let's get rid of him" What a stupid post. What great plan do you have in mind???

Author:	BlueWorld [ Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:34 pm ]
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Why would Denis- who never gives anything away- be airing this in public?

Author:	TheGame [ Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:35 pm ]
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blue-insider wrote: "Let's get rid of him" What a stupid post. What great plan do you have in mind??? 'Sack Pagan and move on', I know it's mind blowing and a little over your head but just try and take the most you can from it.

Author:	Warby [ Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:47 pm ]
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Just heard an interview between Gerard Healy and Simon Wilson on 3AW. Healy asked about Pagan's comments, and Wilson replied that he wasn't aware of any conversations that may have taken place between Denis and Zantuck, and that the Board was unaware of them. Simon Wilson Q.C....hmmm. Or as Healy said after the interview....."that was Simon Wilson Vice President perhaps?"

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Author:	Phoenix [ Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:07 pm ]
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this is the first time I can recall where Pagan hasn't towed the club line. He's clearly fallen out with the management of the club. In normal circumstances Pagan woud have shut up shop and not commented on such matters. It's now a "us" vs. "them" and it's out in the open for all to see. I suspect we're in for some interesting times now that Pagan has come out and was upfront about being overruled.

Author:	bluehotel [ Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:14 pm ]
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TheGame wrote: blue-insider wrote: "Let's get rid of him" What a stupid post. What great plan do you have in mind??? 'Sack Pagan and move on', I know it's mind blowing and a little over your head but just try and take the most you can from it. Sometimes the simplest plans are the best.

Author:	Andain [ Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:16 pm ]
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I've never been more ashamed of my club then I am today. I'm not a fan of Ty Zantuck but the way the club treated him was a complete disgrace. They've basically ended his career by not being honest and telling him he should look at other options.

Author:	SA Blue [ Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:19 pm ]
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The main issue here is DP talking about internal decisions. The board did not over rule him, but rather the other recruiting team. I think we are making far too much of what would be a common occurence at most clubs. It it intriguing though that DP did air it, rather than keep a closed shop.

Author:	Warby [ Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:26 pm ]
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SA Blue wrote: The main issue here is DP talking about internal decisions. The board did not over rule him, but rather the other recruiting team. I think we are making far too much of what would be a common occurence at most clubs. It it intriguing though that DP did air it, rather than keep a closed shop. This is my point....no Denispeak.....just spilling the guts.

Author:	Carlton God [ Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:38 pm ]
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Elwood Blues1 wrote: Its an absurd situation when everyone knows Brett Ratten is the coach in waiting....it will delay the development of our younger players and stifle the progress of the club having Pagan masquerading as senior coach..... I have a few questions, any of you may answer, you know I think you people have great insight and are very astute football followers 1. Can you tell us what position we'd be in if Pagan wasn't coach? How much better would Fevola, Scotland, Stevens, Whitnall, Thornton, Walker, Simpson, OhAilpin be for example? 2. Which young players careers has Pagan destroyed? LIvingston? Sporn? 3. Russell's still only 19, if Pagan wasn't there would he be being talked about as the next Daniel Kerr? 4. Where would the improvement have come from that would have got us those 6 or 7 wins in 2005 and 2006 with another coach? or is Pagan that bad we probably would have won 12 or 13?