After the turmoil of the last month or so my attitude has changed.

As of 2007 onwards we need to win as many games as possible (not 5 or 6 however ) and develop a winning culture.

Murphy, Walker, Bower, Kennedy and Simpson will be out of contract at the end of next season and we don't want to go through all this again. These kids plus Waite, Fisher, Betts, Thornton, the O'Hailpins, Russell, Jackson, Flint, Edwards, Raso, Hartlett (maybe) plus picks #1, #17 and #19 mean that we have plenty to look forward to.

The "line in the sand" approach of the last week may well be the turning point for us.

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There is no footy god

Should be an interesting season, on paper we should be a better side than last year, with last years draftees getting a full preseason under them for the first time.

The Lions losing Voss, Aka, Michael, etc will be weaker, so i reckon we'll be a good chance of maybe getting to 14th or 15th.

I agree we need to start developing the winning culture again. Not sure how many games we will win given that our average age and experience will be even less next year.

However, I think we need a few inspirational wins next year. A win against WC away (we almost did it this year) or something similar will start to build belief within the team and set them up for the year after....

with Gibbs in the team it will be harder to lose than win.

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Love Cricket? Love me

Some wins early in the season will be huge. We need to win 4-5 of our first 11. Last year we were close in so many games, this year we need get over the line more often.

8 or 9 wins is possible

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Ich bein ein Carltonian

We've got one more year of pain until things start getting better.

Hopefully we get picks one and two next year and at the same time play lots of kids (well the club will not have a choice really). Next year will be all about seeing most of the potential the side will have in the next 5-10 years.

When Murphy, Walker, Kennedy and pick 1 this year (hopefully picks 1 and 2 next year) are walking a lap of the MCG after premiership number 17 the fans will look back at the spoons completely differently.

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I think everyone wants to win,i think people decide they want to tank about half way through the season, if we have won 1 game out of 11 and look like not winning much more,to built our list each season,but won't be doing it much longer,our list is getting stronger and it won't be long we win 6 of the first 11 games.

I agree that the Club needs to start winning games. The problem comes when we are half way through a season, with 1 or 2 wins, and you starting to think that ending up with 5 wins, and missing a PP by one game, would be a disaster. It's then that people start thinking we're better off not winning that 1 extra game.

I would still have taken winning the last 4 games last year, and finishing iwth 7.5 wins. But I perferred to win 3.5, and get the PP, than win 4.5, and miss out.

Interesingly, when we copped the draft penalties, people were saying that it would be 10 years before we recovered. Imagine if our results had meant no PP, and that we had finished 12th or 13th in those years (like 2004, which we now see as being a errible result for us)? No Murphy, no Walker, no Kennedy, no Stevens, no Gibbs...we'd be in a much worse on-field state than we are now.

The fact that we did win those spoons, and get those PPs, has hopefully cut 4 years off our 10 year sentence.

Having said that...bring on 2007 and hopefully at least 7 or 8 wins!!

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

I think it would be great if Carlton can win 8 to 10 games to set up a finals push the following year, however, it is hard not to take on the philosophy of "tanking" when the team has won 2 or 3 game in the first 10 weeks. Also, next year the stakes are raised with the super priority pick coming into affect.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw60JKnwy2g

@#$%&!!!! I'd forgotten about that Yellow Doobie...more stress!!

Hopefully we can win 5 games early doors and put it to rest!

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

I agree. Probably one more year of real pain.

I suspect real improvement off the field and in the coaching department might go a long way to keeping the young players happy.

You should turn into a Pro Hat, Pro Waltz, Pro Brayshaw and Pro K.

Wins are imperative for us to reach 30,000 members minimum. WIN WIN WIN at all costs come 2007.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

It's an odd argument isn't it. What I want is for us to develop to domination, so wins aren't as important as improvement. The worst thing that has happened over the last two years is that the PP rules were changed so we miss out on 1&2 even tho we are exactly the sort of back to back spoon basket case that PPs were designed to help.

DP will be looking to win, no doubt. I think we will win the amount of games our talent and coaching panel can deliver which is 4 -8 depending on how much our players imrpove and how much luck we have with injury.

In working out how we'll go we need to work out who we are better than.
Maybe North, maybe Brizzy; maybe Essendon*.... and we don't have any ruckmen. I want to see continued improvement but I doubt we are capable of winning more than 8 games and far more likely to win about 4. Sound familiar? Then in 08 DP will be paid out and a new coach will be salivating at the developing list. Really looking forward to big steps from the o'Hs, Bower, Kennedy, Russell, Raso Hartlett and whoever this years crop is. Who will be next years Simmo?

French TBird Russell and the others are not only unhappy because were losing and it wont make a difference if we win the extra game.
In fact it would make them leave faster because it will take longer to load up the team with talent.
Theyre leaving because the club is miles behind everyone else and putting on dud assistants because Denis is compfrtable doesnt help.
Were miles behind everyone else with our philosophies and our structures and our professionalism.

Winning 10 is rubbish... thats what happened when we had Teague to show as ourBnF and Russell as our first rounder and going after Knobel in the psd thinking were only a couple of players behind making the eight.

There should be a plan to develop kids and inject the club with kids or we will be North Melbourne.

Not far off it as it is...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Thornton, Walker, Waite, Fisher, Betts, Bower, Stevens, Gibbs, Murphy, Fevs, Simpson, Whitnall, Banno, Blackers, JR already makes us far superior to the Kangaroos...
I really think they are in a lot of trouble

It wont take long for the Roos to be beamed out of Melbourne full time from here...

But that doesnt mean were going big guns right now... cos were not!

Four years on and we have no solid plan into the future.
We have a seige mentality when we are forever under the pump going from one crisis to the next.

Thats not how to run a clean and sound football entity in a professional sporting arena.

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David McKay perhaps. Really like the look of him. Similar size. Beautiful mover. Quick. Runs hard. Beautiful long kick.

I assume what Synbad is saying is that our administration are "tanking", but there's no prize at the end

Its a 1 year tanking strategy, assuming Pagan gets to 2007 with a job.

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