TalkingCarlton :: View topic - What we can learn from other clubs

That a team with no money, 1 premiership (50 years ago), enduring decades of hardtimes, threats of merger, that can still stand tall behind a loyal supporter base and administration with desire to survive and succeed as a collective, will always have admiration from the football public for their character, morals and ethics.

What was Elloit's description of such a team?

Lesson: Don't throw stones. Don't take anything for granted. United we stand, divided we fall.

If you just read or recall some of the descriptions some supporters make of our own kids, you'll understand that we have a few ferals that belong to this club, and they're part of the club's make up, and also part of the problem. Do we need supporters that are devisive, or would we rather a united club with a smaller support base like The Bulldogs?

Some supporters who want to rid the club of our current board, also denigrate our players, and our sponsors. Do you think they're half full of half empty types? The board, fair enough at times like these (that's democracy), but I question their level of support, and the value of their support, when they slander our very own players (in a destructive manner) and sponsors (stupidly bighting the hand that feeds).

Some Carltonians have forgotten how to support their own players; it's the supporters who should take on some of the blame for the situation we're in. It's the supporters that can make a player feel stronger or weaker in challenging times, like we have now.

Rather than being understanding that kids need time to develop, and will make mistakes, some supporters take out their frustrations on our players; kids that haven't started shaving yet. Supporters should understand and embrace what the word support means, or else you're just trouble for this club in times like this.

Dictionary: Support: "to bear especially with patience or humility; endure; tolerate; to give help, strength, courage etc".

I admire those supporters, whether Saints or Doggies in their dark days, or our current real loyal supporter who stay at the ground till the final siren to clap off their players. To let the players know, they're not alone in all of this shit. This gives players something to play for, if not the coach. It's not always about the coach, but it's always about the supporters, who pay to watch their beloved team; win, lose or draw. Give them something to play for.

Constructive criticism is useful, but it's the degrading comments in the heat of the moment that show no compassion, empathy, or positive outlook, let alone support that are the bane of this club.

Let me remind you of some of the 'clever' thoughts of our very own posters who call themselves Carltonians:

We have read many a time to trade, or delist all of the following at times throughout the season. Doubts of the following players have been written and include: Walker (selection #2 not worthy because of his kicking), Russell (pick #9 not worthy because lacking courage), Kennedy (worthiness of #4 doubtful, hasn't shown anything; Hansen or Gumby is better), Thornton (dummy spits, can't play at FB, and was only a rookie), Houlihan (too soft and ineffective), Scotland (receiver and running around in circles to no effect, wastes possessions), Setanta (a failed experiment taking up a spot), Waite (hopelessly overvalued, can't stay on his feet), Fisher (what's the point in marking it if he can't kick), Stevens (shit player for the money he's on, B grader, trade him), Hartlett (hasn't shown anything, wont make it, and is lucky to be given a contract, trade him to SA), Carrazzo (can't kick), Blackwell (great courage, but lacks pace), Bentick (lacks pace and is a bad kick), Raso (is never going to make it, is too far behind, and too skinny), Betts (too small, only chases and tackles, looks lost), and they're all kids....and then there's the crap about Whitnall. Lappin, Fevola, Kouta...I mean there's the whole list barring the retreads, and those who have been in the system for many years, and failed to make a name for themselves.

The kids will develop, and they need encouragement as all kids do. They feed off our support. All the skill deficiencies mentioned throughout the year can be fixed. They're only kids. You only need to point out areas where players need improvement, and not call them 'shit'; that's so Richmondesque, but sorry to say, too many Carlton supporters are like this, for my liking. I love their passion, bit it's their inability to make a constructive criticism when I question their value to the club.

Let's not pretend that there are no warring factions at Carlton today. Lets get the gloves out, let them thrash out their vision, and may the best faction win. Lets get this bickering over and done with, once and for all. We have to put this to rest, and it wont go away whilst there is chaos bubbling away everyday. Short term pain for long term gain; how long can we let this continue?

We've got more quality kids coming onto the list from this year's draft. Lets support them too. Who cares if we take a punt on a retread or 2 in the PSD. Football is about punts (pardon the pun(t)). Lets start 2007 with a clean slate, a clear vision, and the type of support required to take this great big group of kids to success over the next decade in the Old Dark Navy Blue jumper.

We need good players, good administrators, good MC, good support staff, good facilities, good sponsors, and most of all good supporters. That's something we can learn from the poor old Doggies. Woof Woof.

Author:	Blue Bird [ Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:56 am ]
Post subject:	What we can learn from other clubs
Yesterday watching the Bulldogs Collingwood game and its aftermath made me envious. Watching the spirit and brotherhood of that side and seeing Rohan Smith retire putting the good of the team ahead of personal milestones and pay considerations made me long for that same unselfishness at Carlton. We desperately need change not only for all the practical reasons but also for something less tangible; somehow we have to get back to a time when team camaraderie and absolute pride in the navy blue was not a pipedream but something we took for granted.

Author:	bondiblue [ Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:52 am ]
Post subject:
That a team with no money, 1 premiership (50 years ago), enduring decades of hardtimes, threats of merger, that can still stand tall behind a loyal supporter base and administration with desire to survive and succeed as a collective, will always have admiration from the football public for their character, morals and ethics. What was Elloit's description of such a team? Lesson: Don't throw stones. Don't take anything for granted. United we stand, divided we fall. If you just read or recall some of the descriptions some supporters make of our own kids, you'll understand that we have a few ferals that belong to this club, and they're part of the club's make up, and also part of the problem. Do we need supporters that are devisive, or would we rather a united club with a smaller support base like The Bulldogs? Some supporters who want to rid the club of our current board, also denigrate our players, and our sponsors. Do you think they're half full of half empty types? The board, fair enough at times like these (that's democracy), but I question their level of support, and the value of their support, when they slander our very own players (in a destructive manner) and sponsors (stupidly bighting the hand that feeds). Some Carltonians have forgotten how to support their own players; it's the supporters who should take on some of the blame for the situation we're in. It's the supporters that can make a player feel stronger or weaker in challenging times, like we have now. Rather than being understanding that kids need time to develop, and will make mistakes, some supporters take out their frustrations on our players; kids that haven't started shaving yet. Supporters should understand and embrace what the word support means, or else you're just trouble for this club in times like this. Dictionary: Support: "to bear especially with patience or humility; endure; tolerate; to give help, strength, courage etc". I admire those supporters, whether Saints or Doggies in their dark days, or our current real loyal supporter who stay at the ground till the final siren to clap off their players. To let the players know, they're not alone in all of this shit. This gives players something to play for, if not the coach. It's not always about the coach, but it's always about the supporters, who pay to watch their beloved team; win, lose or draw. Give them something to play for. Constructive criticism is useful, but it's the degrading comments in the heat of the moment that show no compassion, empathy, or positive outlook, let alone support that are the bane of this club. Let me remind you of some of the 'clever' thoughts of our very own posters who call themselves Carltonians: We have read many a time to trade, or delist all of the following at times throughout the season. Doubts of the following players have been written and include: Walker (selection #2 not worthy because of his kicking), Russell (pick #9 not worthy because lacking courage), Kennedy (worthiness of #4 doubtful, hasn't shown anything; Hansen or Gumby is better), Thornton (dummy spits, can't play at FB, and was only a rookie), Houlihan (too soft and ineffective), Scotland (receiver and running around in circles to no effect, wastes possessions), Setanta (a failed experiment taking up a spot), Waite (hopelessly overvalued, can't stay on his feet), Fisher (what's the point in marking it if he can't kick), Stevens (shit player for the money he's on, B grader, trade him), Hartlett (hasn't shown anything, wont make it, and is lucky to be given a contract, trade him to SA), Carrazzo (can't kick), Blackwell (great courage, but lacks pace), Bentick (lacks pace and is a bad kick), Raso (is never going to make it, is too far behind, and too skinny), Betts (too small, only chases and tackles, looks lost), and they're all kids....and then there's the crap about Whitnall. Lappin, Fevola, Kouta...I mean there's the whole list barring the retreads, and those who have been in the system for many years, and failed to make a name for themselves. The kids will develop, and they need encouragement as all kids do. They feed off our support. All the skill deficiencies mentioned throughout the year can be fixed. They're only kids. You only need to point out areas where players need improvement, and not call them 'shit'; that's so Richmondesque, but sorry to say, too many Carlton supporters are like this, for my liking. I love their passion, bit it's their inability to make a constructive criticism when I question their value to the club. Let's not pretend that there are no warring factions at Carlton today. Lets get the gloves out, let them thrash out their vision, and may the best faction win. Lets get this bickering over and done with, once and for all. We have to put this to rest, and it wont go away whilst there is chaos bubbling away everyday. Short term pain for long term gain; how long can we let this continue? We've got more quality kids coming onto the list from this year's draft. Lets support them too. Who cares if we take a punt on a retread or 2 in the PSD. Football is about punts (pardon the pun(t)). Lets start 2007 with a clean slate, a clear vision, and the type of support required to take this great big group of kids to success over the next decade in the Old Dark Navy Blue jumper. We need good players, good administrators, good MC, good support staff, good facilities, good sponsors, and most of all good supporters. That's something we can learn from the poor old Doggies. Woof Woof.

Author:	blueyonder [ Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:
bondiblue, This is the best post I have ever read. I just hope all of the baggers on this site, the ones who give unwarranted criticisms, read your post and have a good think about what they are doing, the damage they are doing to many of our players... I just re-iterate every single word that you said in that post. READ IT BAGGERS, READ IT...AND HAVE A GOOD THINK ABOUT IT .

Author:	Carlton God [ Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:
They have a good spread of talent in terms of young players, mid aged players and older players. We only have some good young players and a couple of ok older players. We need picks 1+2 in 2007, I don't think bulldogs supporters care much about 2003 now.

Author:	Pickle [ Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:
Other clubs can teach us how to use the interchange. I sat behind the interchange for the fri night game and sun game. DP needs to realise that the interchange is a tool whereby midfield players can have a quick rest and recharge the batteries before another onslaught - yes believe it or not that's what other clubs use it for - not to have young players sitting there for 100min after making an early mistake!!!

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

What we can learn from other clubs http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12531	Page 1 of 2

Author:	bluehammer [ Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:
The bulldogs side has leaders at every level. You only needed to look at how the players gathered around Rohan Smith after the game. Leaders leaders leaders. No young player wants to let their team mate down as the examples set by their leaders are so great. I think we can learn a lot from the doggies recruiters - disposal both in the open and under pressure was obviously the number one selection criteria for their recruiters. And they run. Their midfield just ripped Collingwood apart. I think we could learn a lot from Hawthorn as well. They told their fans that it was going to be a tough few years, but at all costs they'd provide opportunities to their draftees if they showed a bit. We've had blokes 'not banging on the door hard enough' in the bullants, who eventually get picked and spend 3/4 of the game on the pine. Setting expectations is what our club can really learn about. NO QUICK FIXES - there aren't any these days. Get the right players for your club, and be patient. We can learn the most from West Coast - Keep Michael Gardiner off an AFL list

Author:	The Duke [ Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:
St Kilda - That you don't sack a proven premiership coach on a hefty contract because an assistant thinks he can do better Collingwood - If you're going to tank - do it for at least 3 years or those experienced players will be too old and fat before you have developed enogh young talent to win the GF Freo - No matter how [REDACTED] you are at trading, with ample picks you can still do alright Richmond - Ninth gets you nothing Brisbane - We weren't the first or last to fall so quickly Geelong - Absolutely nothing

Author:	Blue Bird [ Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:
bluehammer wrote: We can learn the most from West Coast - Keep Michael Gardiner off an AFL list quoted for truth.

Author:	billc3 [ Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:
The Duke wrote: St Kilda - That you don't sack a proven premiership coach on a hefty contract because an assistant thinks he can do better Collingwood - If you're going to tank - do it for at least 3 years or those experienced players will be too old and fat before you have developed enogh young talent to win the GF Freo - No matter how F@%&#! you are at trading, with ample picks you can still do alright Richmond - Ninth gets you nothing Brisbane - We weren't the first or last to fall so quickly Geelong - Absolutely nothing Essendon* - picking up has beens and holding onto your own won't get you a flag....oh hang on ...we learn't that in 2002 Love the post bondiblue...spot on

Author:	Taff [ Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:
bondiblue wrote: That a team with no money, 1 premiership (50 years ago), enduring decades of hardtimes, threats of merger, that can still stand tall behind a loyal supporter base and administration with desire to survive and succeed as a collective, will always have admiration from the football public for their character, morals and ethics. What was Elloit's description of such a team? Lesson: Don't throw stones. Don't take anything for granted. United we stand, divided we fall. If you just read or recall some of the descriptions some supporters make of our own kids, you'll understand that we have a few ferals that belong to this club, and they're part of the club's make up, and also part of the problem. Do we need supporters that are devisive, or would we rather a united club with a smaller support base like The Bulldogs? Some supporters who want to rid the club of our current board, also denigrate our players, and our sponsors. Do you think they're half full of half empty types? The board, fair enough at times like these (that's democracy), but I question their level of support, and the value of their support, when they slander our very own players (in a destructive manner) and sponsors (stupidly bighting the hand that feeds). Some Carltonians have forgotten how to support their own players; it's the supporters who should take on some of the blame for the situation we're in. It's the supporters that can make a player feel stronger or weaker in challenging times, like we have now. Rather than being understanding that kids need time to develop, and will make mistakes, some supporters take out their frustrations on our players; kids that haven't started shaving yet. Supporters should understand and embrace what the word support means, or else you're just trouble for this club in times like this. Dictionary: Support: "to bear especially with patience or humility; endure; tolerate; to give help, strength, courage etc". I admire those supporters, whether Saints or Doggies in their dark days, or our current real loyal supporter who stay at the ground till the final siren to clap off their players. To let the players know, they're not alone in all of this shit. This gives players something to play for, if not the coach. It's not always about the coach, but it's always about the supporters, who pay to watch their beloved team; win, lose or draw. Give them something to play for. Constructive criticism is useful, but it's the degrading comments in the heat of the moment that show no compassion, empathy, or positive outlook, let alone support that are the bane of this club. Let me remind you of some of the 'clever' thoughts of our very own posters who call themselves Carltonians: We have read many a time to trade, or delist all of the following at times throughout the season. Doubts of the following players have been written and include: Walker (selection #2 not worthy because of his kicking), Russell (pick #9 not worthy because lacking courage), Kennedy (worthiness of #4 doubtful, hasn't shown anything; Hansen or Gumby is better), Thornton (dummy spits, can't play at FB, and was only a rookie), Houlihan (too soft and ineffective), Scotland (receiver and running around in circles to no effect, wastes possessions), Setanta (a failed experiment taking up a spot), Waite (hopelessly overvalued, can't stay on his feet), Fisher (what's the point in marking it if he can't kick), Stevens (shit player for the money he's on, B grader, trade him), Hartlett (hasn't shown anything, wont make it, and is lucky to be given a contract, trade him to SA), Carrazzo (can't kick), Blackwell (great courage, but lacks pace), Bentick (lacks pace and is a bad kick), Raso (is never going to make it, is too far behind, and too skinny), Betts (too small, only chases and tackles, looks lost), and they're all kids....and then there's the crap about Whitnall. Lappin, Fevola, Kouta...I mean there's the whole list barring the retreads, and those who have been in the system for many years, and failed to make a name for themselves. The kids will develop, and they need encouragement as all kids do. They feed off our support. All the skill deficiencies mentioned throughout the year can be fixed. They're only kids. You only need to point out areas where players need improvement, and not call them 'shit'; that's so Richmondesque, but sorry to say, too many Carlton supporters are like this, for my liking. I love their passion, bit it's their inability to make a constructive criticism when I question their value to the club. Let's not pretend that there are no warring factions at Carlton today. Lets get the gloves out, let them thrash out their vision, and may the best faction win. Lets get this bickering over and done with, once and for all. We have to put this to rest, and it wont go away whilst there is chaos bubbling away everyday. Short term pain for long term gain; how long can we let this continue? We've got more quality kids coming onto the list from this year's draft. Lets support them too. Who cares if we take a punt on a retread or 2 in the PSD. Football is about punts (pardon the pun(t)). Lets start 2007 with a clean slate, a clear vision, and the type of support required to take this great big group of kids to success over the next decade in the Old Dark Navy Blue jumper. We need good players, good administrators, good MC, good support staff, good facilities, good sponsors, and most of all good supporters. That's something we can learn from the poor old Doggies. Woof Woof. Post of the year! It will be good to look back on this post in 12 months time. Let us all hope that we can pull all this together.

Author:	bondiblue [ Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:
From Collingwood: A president with pulling power. eg Eddie Maguire or should I say a person people can supporters and sponsors relate to and identify with and want to associate with. The inference being when celebs/ high profile people who take on leadership roles like Eddie or Reagan or Arnie in the USA its the identity that people relate to, rather than just their powerful position. Surrounding themselves with more good people/ advisors would make up for any deficiency they may have in vision and tactical manouvering. The one thing these types can do is open doors to sponsors, as well as putting the media focus on them and using the euphoria surrounding them to promote the club rather than on the contoversial issues that would be considered what it is; a legacy of the past. I'm sure if lets say, Michael Hutchence (RIP) became president of CFC, the public wouldn't be looking at the spoon and our failures, but would hang onto every word of their vision. Perception is reality, and if the vision is what sponsors want to hear, the money would come through the door. This money would get this club out of the 1900's and make Carlton an exciting place to be at. We already have a good group of elite talent on the field that will evolve, and now we need a president and board with a vision and charisma/ aura the public will admire and as a result CFC becomes the envy of the rest. If only it could be that easy to find the right figurehead.

Author:	steve [ Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:
What can we learn from other clubs? At the moment that is a simple one word answer: EVERYTHING!

Author:	JohnM [ Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:
What can we learn from West Coast? That Michael Gardiner is so undesirable, he's not even worthy of training with the senior squad, let alone worthy of getting a game. If we can't even learn that simple lesson, what hope do we have?

Author:	kingkerna [ Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:
What can we learn from the Saints???? How to sack a coach quickly without flip-flopping on the issue

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Author:	The Duke [ Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:
kingkerna wrote: What can we learn from the Saints???? How to sack a coach quickly without flip-flopping on the issue To be honest Kerna, I don't think coach management is one of St Kildas strong points

Author:	dannyboy [ Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:
Carlton and Denis take note St Kilda did is without a @#$%&! circus and look everyone moves on and they will now search for a replacement their Board think suits the club. But we? Oh we take poit shots at the media, cite our great history and lurk around in the dark chasing memories of what we were! we are the sneaky leakers we are the old dark sneaky leakers we can do the flip and then the flop we can go pip or pop with all the mind changers and all the back stabbers we'll leave you laughing and even giggling and you'll know that you've been hearing the famous old dark sneaky leakers!

Author:	verbs [ Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:
Funny that nobody knew this was going to happen at StKilda until it actually did.

Author:	Elwood Blues1 [ Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:
dannyboy wrote: Carlton and Denis take note St Kilda did is without a F@%&#! circus and look everyone moves on and they will now search for a replacement their Board think suits the club. But we? Oh we take poit shots at the media, cite our great history and lurk around in the dark chasing memories of what we were! we are the sneaky leakers we are the old dark sneaky leakers we can do the flip and then the flop we can go pip or pop with all the mind changers and all the back stabbers we'll leave you laughing and even giggling and you'll know that you've been hearing the famous old dark sneaky leakers! Longmire or Cresswell.....Glen Archers management group did the headhunting according to Hutchinson on CH7 and started a couple of weeks ago...

Author:	Headplant [ Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:
The Duke wrote: St Kilda - That you don't sack a proven premiership coach on a hefty contract because an assistant thinks he can do better No, sacking Blight was a great decision ... appointing him was the mistake, he didn't want it, they put the pressure on him and persuaded him to do it, then he couldn't motivate himself properly. It's not good enough just to have a couple of premierships on your CV. It takes commitment (among many other things).

Author:	Wolfe [ Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:
Archers management group wonder if he has also sent the headhunters after Deniis pagan as Archer was a big fan of Denis and may feel that Denis be better served in a better organised club