TalkingCarlton :: View topic - How's this for a bake? Fraser Brown speaks out!

Synbad, I don't like the 'the club is not Carlton enough' attitude' that is in that article.

It seems very simplistic.

I would rather the club go after the best people possible rather than a posse of 4 ex-carlton players. Find the best people available rather than sycophants.

It just stinks of Elliot to me.

I don't care if it is 600K, I don't want the Elliot 'stink' back at the club.

I'm not behind the current board or Pagan 100%, that is for sure.

Would love to see most of the board gone.

But the members only voted in 1 new board member this year, how stuffed is that?

I want to see a fair dinkum ticket, not some half arsed brown-nosed ticket.

I know where you guys are coming from, but I think the 'get rid of pagan' line is blinding otherwise sensible people to go for something that may not be any better for the club over the next two years.

Someone put up a proper ticket!!

I will support a decent ticket against this mob.

Author:	jim [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:55 am ]
Post subject:	How's this for a bake? Fraser Brown speaks out!
http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/real ... 64618.html Confirms quite a few things that were speculative. Fraser held nothing back here.

Author:	mikkey [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:59 am ]
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Well, well... this seems to confirms Ockhams' account of what happened and is also a clear indication that this is far from over and that "it is on". Will make it difficult to recruit out of contarct palyers...

Author:	Jarusa [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How's this for a bake?
jim wrote: http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2006/09/07/1157222264618.html Confirms quite a few things that were speculative. Fraser held nothing back here. Brown seems like a complete and utter flower in that article. Include 4 ex-carlton players and the magic roundabout will be reached! What a load of crap! If you have the balls form a ticket and do the job properly rather than trying to slink a few mates in. Don't know what the problem is, the way the supporters are at the moment they will vote in a drovers dog to replace the current lot (except Greg Lee, he should be kept ). Thank you Bill Hayden.

Author:	Synbad [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:10 am ]
Post subject:
Brown isnt a coackhead because he is willing to invest 600k of his own hard earnt cash and there are others willing to invest theirs to make changes. He is like the rest of us.. frustrated!!! In my opinion he is totally right... the club has lost its soul.. The players arent happy under Denis. the board has no clue.... Gleeson and Sticks are the only 2 people on it that know anything about footy. The wheels have to be set in motion or we will have 2 more years of nothingness. Now if Brown was bagging the club making recommendations without putting his money up..(considering how much he has)... then he would be a flower... Jarusa... you cant bag a bloke who is willing to put 600k of his own money where his mouth is..!!!... dunno where how you keep saying that ....

Author:	titimus [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:12 am ]
Post subject:
I think the real question is: what are we all doing here this late? I'm too tired to really go into it -- but Fraser sure doesn't hold back. ^ Agree with Synners. Bed..

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Author:	Jarusa [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:18 am ]
Post subject:
Synbad, I don't like the 'the club is not Carlton enough' attitude' that is in that article. It seems very simplistic. I would rather the club go after the best people possible rather than a posse of 4 ex-carlton players. Find the best people available rather than sycophants. It just stinks of Elliot to me. I don't care if it is 600K, I don't want the Elliot 'stink' back at the club. I'm not behind the current board or Pagan 100%, that is for sure. Would love to see most of the board gone. But the members only voted in 1 new board member this year, how stuffed is that? I want to see a fair dinkum ticket, not some half arsed brown-nosed ticket. I know where you guys are coming from, but I think the 'get rid of pagan' line is blinding otherwise sensible people to go for something that may not be any better for the club over the next two years. Someone put up a proper ticket!! I will support a decent ticket against this mob.

Author:	George Harris [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:22 am ]
Post subject:
People who are Pro-Pagan are kidding themselves. Here's the truth as many have spoken on this site for months. Need any more evidence? Fraser's ticket may not be the ideal solution but it would be infinitely better than where we are now.

Author:	Synbad [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:30 am ]
Post subject:
Jarusa wrote: Synbad, I don't like the 'the club is not Carlton enough' attitude' that is in that article. It seems very simplistic. I would rather the club go after the best people possible rather than a posse of 4 ex-carlton players. Find the best people available rather than sycophants. It just stinks of Elliot to me. I don't care if it is 600K, I don't want the Elliot 'stink' back at the club. I'm not behind the current board or Pagan 100%, that is for sure. Would love to see most of the board gone. But the members only voted in 1 new board member this year, how stuffed is that? I want to see a fair dinkum ticket, not some half arsed brown-nosed ticket. I know where you guys are coming from, but I think the 'get rid of pagan' line is blinding otherwise sensible people to go for something that may not be any better for the club over the next two years. Someone put up a proper ticket!! I will support a decent ticket against this mob. It might stink of Elliot J, but the club is not what it used to be. What theyre trying to do is this..... Turn it back into what it was... get the Carlton people back... the one with the $$$$.. people like Kerr etc./ What has happened over the last few years is these people have been turned away... But they deserve the club just as much as we do.. And guess what??? Because they have been turned away.. the club is running on 4 cylinders not 12... Elliot just abused it... but whether we like it or not .. Carlton was a great club.. and part of that greatness was because we are Carlton...arrogant... stick it up everyone Carlton...We are the best were Carlton... We dont bend over for anyone Carlton... yes its Elliot.. but it existed before Elliot and he took it over the edge.... Thats what theyre going to go for again... thats what they mean by Carltonising Carlton again... The word is there are ex players with money... there are supporters with money... and there are corporates with money... ever wondered why all of that just vanished into thin air??? This is just the beginning in my opinion... Hopefully there is more of a balance there this time.. but the current pale blue Carlton is not going to work... its making us weak... Elliot is gone... but Carlton will be back...!!!... And in my opinion thats whats going on behind the scenes...

Author:	Jarusa [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:41 am ]
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I understand where you are coming from but to me the 'arrogance' of the Carlton Football Club only describes about 20 years of its existance. Before Elliot arrived the club was actually rather humble and went about its business better than most clubs in a very professional but dignified manner. We won 14 premierships by being the 'humble' Carlton. Elliot came along and seemingly permanently changed the culture of the club to that of the 'silvertail' something that until he had come along was really not the primary 'culture' of the club. Unfortunately, this silvertail legacy is what most Carlton supporters under the age of 40 understand about the CFC. But there is a different way. I cringe now whenever I hear people say bring back the 'arrogance'. The 'arrogance' is what brought us to the shitty point we are at today. Every single day since the 'arrogance' started has brought us to this point, lower and lower and lower. What we need to do is put in the HARD YARDS and build the club like it had to be built for the 1938 and 1968 premierships. Not through ARROGANCE. BUT HARD WORK. ... and using the systems available at the time. Elliot has absolutely NOTHING to do with the successful culture of Carlton.

Author:	Synbad [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:49 am ]
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Jarusda read your Blueseum. Read all about George Harris... and educate yourself about what Carlton is. Its about being better and more arrogant than anyone else. Its about going out and getting Barassi from melbourne... bringing melbourne down to dust and turning us into a powerhouse.... It was done with money.. arrogance and audacity. We wernt humble when we stole Jezza from North.. or Perce from Melbourne.. we wernt humble when in one season we got Braddley.. Sticks.. Dora and a guy called Motley who was probably the best but fate stopped us from ever knowing.. and dont forget we almost snagged Platten in the same year too... It was Carlton. And in my opinion... pay attention here..... there are elements around the club who believe we have lost it over the last 10 years ...and want it back... !!! Now you can not support them.. but theyre there..

Author:	Jarusa [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:56 am ]
Post subject:
Arrogance is a disease on this club and it was started by Elliot. George Harris was a fine man but not 'arrogant'. Arrogance is thinking only Carlton people will solve Carlton problems.

Author:	Synbad [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:05 am ]
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Arrogance is better than cowering though isnt it??? and lets not call it the Carlton arrogance around you.. we can call it the 'Carlton swagger'.... Whatever it was we need it back... someone find the remote...

Author:	Cyclonus [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:07 am ]
Post subject:	...
Utter flower? I couldn't fault anything he had to say. Ratten has no stigma from the latest coaching fiasco, is well credentialled, intelligent, and strikes me as a tactician. He would be ideal as Brown said. "Dispirited and soulless" - That sums the place up. With all the dirty laundry out in the open, Pagan's position as head coach is surely untenable. "Two years is too long to wait." - another astute quote from the flower! In fact I'd almost say Brown sums up the feelings of the majority of posters on this board, myself included. I thought you were meant to be a smart poster?

Author:	-Ox- [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:08 am ]
Post subject:
Its amazing listening to you guys go hammer and tong about the 'proud' history of our club........I'm too young to remember anything pre 1995. Possibly you guys can educate me - what was it that made Carlton stand out from the rest in the golden years? Was it the people off the field? On the field? Was it other clubs being scared of us? Whatever it is, it seems that we have the worst list, the worst management and we are the least indimidatory club going around.... I'd love to see us as the 'great' team you guys remember...

Author:	Synbad [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:14 am ]
Post subject:
We had it all.... The envy of every other club... and we lost our way.. Prime Ministers.. and even Abba.. Players like Jezza and Doully or the Dominator.. Tough bastards like Wes Lofts... John Nicholls .. Ian Collins or Jimmy Buckley.. Party boys... Rhode Scholars.. A flower whos who team of the Century. And an office that would make things happen.... including the first swimmingpool .. (Pretty shitty by todays standards.. but it was all over the newspapers when we got it... Kenny Sheldon loved being photographed in it.. We pinched Barassi from the best club going around and sent Melbourne to hell.. and us to heaven... But one thing about Carlton.. we did things 'Our Way'!!!

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Author:	we are = we're [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:30 am ]
Post subject:
I tend to agree that bringing in a few 'Carlton' people would be good for the spirit of the club. Not sure if any of our ex-players are ready for the senior coaching position, but grooming Ratts and/or SOS in assistant roles would work for me. But, we need to be careful when talking about the "Carlton Way" or the "Carlton Arrogance". The competition is a very different beast - draft, salary cap etc. Let's not forget that the "Carlton Way" landed us in this sh!t in the first place. Having said that, I think I understand what you mean about the swagger. Problem is, it's hard to pull that off when we get beaten every week.

Author:	Synbad [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:32 am ]
Post subject:
'pulling off' and 'beaten' is the same thing....

Author:	Synbad [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:39 am ]
Post subject:
we are = we're wrote: Synbad wrote: 'pulling off' and 'beaten' is the same thing.... ??? Have I missed something ??? Dont know enough about you....

Author:	Headplant [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:44 am ]
Post subject:
Perhaps a start would be modern coaches with modern attitudes who understand that you no longer get success by humiliating players?