Okay,
Longmuir, Dmac, Livingston, Saddington , Davies, Prendergast, French (retired), Chambers, Teague, Possibly Sporn.

What do you think?

Zoneman,

While I agree with a few of your suggestions, I can't understand why you would put McLaren the delist box.

With French gone, how can we go on with only DeLuca and Bryan?

McLaren has to, and will, be retained.

Saddington and Teague are another chance to go around again given their contract situation.

_________________
Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

[quote="phoenix johnson"]

I can't understand why you would put McLaren the delist box.

With French gone, how can we go on with only DeLuca and Bryan?

McLaren has to, and will, be retained.

All good points PJ. I wasn't sure of the conractual situation of some.

What about Pagan? Oh yeah, contract!

Not that I am recommending their delisting but on what I saw on the television today the following players should not be on our list in two years time
1. Carazzo - cannot kick well enough
2. Fisher - cannot kick well enough
3. Sporn - cannot kick well enough
4. Waite - cannot kick well enough, plus a headcase, trade anyone?

If we still have these players on our list then we will continue to be shit! So many times today they couldn't do the business when required.

As has been said elsewhere we have to make tough decisions if we are going to progress. To be honest who would want them when they turn the ball over so much?

It is easy to criticize from afar but reading all the posts and from what I saw today, boy there is a long way to go. This off season is going to critical in so many ways. Fasten your seatbelts and enjoy the ride.

Goodbye to:-

Sporn
Chambers
Longmuier
French (Retired)
Teauge
Prenda
McGrath

Edit:- Livo too!

That takes out 8 players. 7 delists and 1 retire.

8 spots on our list to be filled by:-
Gardiner in the PSD.
Promote Jackson to senior list
Use picks 1, 17, 19, 35, 51, 67

_________________
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Ok
Let the fun Begin
we gave 3 guys their 50th game today.... See you later! Thanks and I hope you have girls!!

Most boys over 24 playing in the ants yeaterday on our list. See ya!

Livo I'll name you!
Anyone we recruited from the west recently
CC and TL

Anyone who is scared of the ball. Please let it be true Watchingg the Houlahans at the ants, Boy are they a brave family!

See you later to one and all BUT especially

Everyone who attends training and tells me for the next 6 months that XXX is HUGE and has built up
our skills are shit
our bulk aint that good
and they can't improve enough over a summer so PLEASE tell us the truth!

_________________
Stay tuned We're in for a BUMPY ride

Delist / Trade list if any have currency
Options at this stage i dont expect all would be cut but i reckon the list below would be under review

Ryans List :
Sporn
Chambers
Longmuier
French (Retired)
Teague
Prenda
McGrath

Add to that
Davies - out of footy for a year no info so dont know where he is at
Livingston
Saddington
Deluca

_________________
CFC TAC Squad everyone over 25 must be traded sounds like Loguns Run

Yeah, i aggree with that. But i'm pretty sure (and could be wrong here) but i don't think you can delist more than 8 players a year.

_________________
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Agreed Ryan

Also i would not expect all those to be delisted / traded

But good chance of 8 going either delisted or traded i think after the team won 3.5 Games

Be good if the coaching department can also under go a similar change

As someone said time to draw a line in the sand and make some changes that will turn this great (not recently) around.

Make proper changes on the list ... coaching department and geez eben the board needs a good look at itself

But then again all this has been duscussed adnausium lol

_________________
CFC TAC Squad everyone over 25 must be traded sounds like Loguns Run

That's just the thing isn't it.......................?

It all get's discussed and promises are made and fans are STILL left looking for answers!
I still remember Pagan talking up finals in 2005 after saying that he was expecting us to win 12 games in 2004.

There needs to be some serious changes at this club or there will not be a CFC in a few years time. AND DON'T SAY THAT IT WONT HAPPEN.................I used to be a Fitzroy fan, and all my mates said 'Ah, the AFL needs Fitzroy, they'll never leave!'

Coaching Staff MUST be addressed
Board members MUST be addressed
List MUST be addressed.

And it MUST be done before the Grand Final. Carlton fans need results and after that pissweak effort today they need them sooner rather than later.
I already know of three people who will not be renewing their membership until changes are made............and that's just sad!

_________________
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

100% agreed Ryan

And you know the good thing about the loss today ... was pitiful / inept and yes dont read to much last game of the season who cares .... but at least it wont hide that big changes need to happen

We had the season we got to 10th then we won the wizzer cup and thought all was good .. .2 years later back to back spoons ..

Friggin do some changes and at all levels .... if winning back to back spoons isnt a big message that the club needs to restructure and address how unacceptable the performance is then i dont know what is

I filled out that survey and in most areas asked for ratings on how to rate on field / Board / Coaching was think i ticked 0 or 1 what ever was unacceptable at all points.

This is Carlton never has the club accepted anything remotely as unacceptable as we have endured over the past 4 years it was ruthless made hard decisions ... yes we also made stupid ones especially off field lol
Well i think we needs to be ruthless again in turning this club around but not arrogant in the way it squandered all its finances away ... just make hard decisions like it did in the past and all are on notice .. board / coaches / players.

Maybe some decisions will upset some people but overall it will show everyone .. supporters / sponsers the Football world the Blues are making a proper step forward....

_________________
CFC TAC Squad everyone over 25 must be traded sounds like Loguns Run

I think it will be

Bannister
Bryan
Chambers
Davies
Livingston
Longmuir
Prendergast
Sporn
Plus
French (retired) and possibly Lappin with doubts over McGrath and Wiggins although they may have both shown enough this year to go around again.

That's a possibility of up to 12 changes to the list without any trades. Elevate Smith, Jackson plus Flint and that gives us 6,7 or 8 draft picks plus 1 PSD.

I think Teague and Saddington have contracts for next year.

With Barnaby gone perhaps Everitt is a chance in the PSD?

We must delist:
Livo
Prenda
Chambers
Davies
Sporn
Longmuir
Teague
Bannister

Try and trade maybe:
Fish - Cannot kick
Russell back 2 SA - Second Round Draft choice
Promote Smith and Jackson
Pick up Gardiner - PSD

Player that must be delisted this year or the next:

Jordan Bannister
Callum Chambers
Justin Davies
Adrian Deluca
Adam Hartlett
Ryan Houlihan
Matthew Lappin
Luke Livingston
Troy Longmiur
Cory McGrath
Ian Prendergast
Jason Saddington
Trent Sporn
David Teague

Players who should be delisted but won't because we've got no ruckman:
Dylan McLaren
Chris Bryan

What...you can't even wait 1 day to do this..???

Well Trent Sporn won't be delisted,has played 2 good last games,to suggest he will go around next year,maybe traded if a club wants him.

Two works of pure genius!

Give Hartlett and Russell a chance to get on the park before you kick the chair out from under them.

Houlihan would be picked up if he was delisted.

We should package him with a later pick to get an earlier one in the third round from a club who needs an outside player.

No trading anyone under 24. Be like starting again watching a young bloke develop to the standard of the current player, and someone like Fisher could come back and bite you. You won't get the trade currency yet so there no guanantee of getting anyone better, probably worse. And no-one who can mark like Fisher for his size. Stewie Loewe couldn't kick either for a long time

Houla is one of our top 10 players and puts in every week. So I wouldn't be getting rid of him. There are far worse players at the club.

Confirmed
-----------
French

Highly probable
-----------
Chambers
Longmuir
Davies
Prenda
Livingston


Probable
----------
Teague (Dermie mentioned on the TV call that it was probably his last game)
Sporn
Bannister

That's a total of 9 players. I reckon with French's retirement Aisake will almost definately be promoted, and I think they'll give Smith a senior list spot. They might even promote one of Flint or Jackson, but I think given our record under Pagan they'll probably remain rookies for another year and then get promoted.

That gives us 2 promotions (possibly 3 at the outside), 1 PSD pick and either 5 or 6 picks in the draft.

I can't see the club delisting any more than that for two reasons:
1) our recent history over the past 3 or so years
2) the need to delist players at the end of 07.

That leaves a possible pool of delistings for 2007:

Kouta (retired)
Lappin (retired based on 06 form)
Saddington
Bryan (if he can't cement a place in '07)
De Luca (just not a favourite of mine )
Wiggins (depending on the performance of new and younger players)
McGrath (as above)

That leaves a fairly balanced way of cleaning out the list over the next two years, with possibly one or two younger players to add to that if they don't make the grade.

It also allows the club to free up 3 rookie list spots (Aisake and Smith promoted, Batson delisted) which I think from memory they might be required to do.