I know he's an untouchable and all that but the hard questions really have to be asked about Stephen Kernahan.
I loved watching the guy play. He was a hero of mine as a young lad.
But he is the one constant in all of the decisions we've made in the past seven or eight years. Coaches have come and gone; recruiters have come and gone; presidents and CEOs have come and gone; and most of the list has come and gone. The one constant (apart from Kouta) is Sticks. He's been the one calling the shots on so many decisions that've gone terribly wrong. And yet not one person (other than George from Richmond on SEN last night) seems to be calling him to account.
In a perfect world I too would like a new coach if only to inject some enthusiasm into the place.
If Kernahan is behind the plan to install Mitchell with Silvagni, Dean etc as assistants then I fear this may be the worst decision yet. Kernahan, Silvagni, Dean, Bradley, Ratten. All heroes of mine but all (except Dean maybe) who were involved in the culture of selfishness which set us on the path we've been on since 2001. A move like this, ie handing the club over to his mates, would smack of Kernahan treating OUR club as his own little personal plaything. I don't reckon that's healthy...

To paraphrase a post from BF. The real concern with Sticks is that he has become a yes man.

Elliot says get Pagan, sticks says yes.

Collins says re-sign pagan, sticks says yes.

Mitchell says give me the top job, sticks says yes.

I don't think he is at fault for everything, but I think he is not being the counterweight on the board that people assumed he would be. Which means he's not doing his job. So the push to amended the constitution (that we just changed) to allow him to stay in his job is really quite disturbing.

DRS your points are misguided, uninformed and an insault.




you know this for a fact do you???






please show me an example of Sticks being selfish?????? pathetic comment, he might make the wrong decision but it is not out of selfishness - he has nothing to gain by donating his time to the club and putting his balls on the line - what the f%$k have you done?

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

I think this is a good point that rather than Sticks being at fault for things he's done, it's more a problem with things he hasn't done.

Is, or was, Sticks to emotionally involved with some of the players at carlton when he was appointed to the board? Is he still? Is he letting matters cloud his judgement when they shouldn't be?

I still think carlton are being too inward-looking and closed off by considering only ex-Carlton players as contenders as coaches if that be the case. We need the best person available, not just the best ex-Carlton player. If the best ex-Carlton player is truly the best candidate, then that's great, but I don't want to see the Club close itself off to potential.

_________________
And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Please show me where I said Sticks was selfish? I said there was a culture of selfishness at the club and all of these players were either implicit or complicit in allowing the culture to develop. They were the club's leaders when this culture developed.

Your overly emotional response, kingkerna, is exactly why this club will struggle to move forward if we are so inward looking...

I agree with nightcrawler and Kaptain Kouta that it may well be that he hasn't been strong enough in certain situations. As a manager of business, group, whatever most times it what you don't do rather than what you do do which'll bring you unstuck.

I reckon DRS is pretty correct. Sticks has been a great Carlton man, but I doubt whether he is a great administrator. He was the footy person in on meetings re Pagan's appointment. He was the one who justified the selection of O'Reilly by saying "we needed a big bastard" apparently being able to play wasn't part of that deal. I think he is a great loyal person but I don't know that he is a great strategic thinker, and having him do the coaching review with his mate Mitch looking to snag the top job says a lot about the club's lack of professionalism. I guess we will have to wait and see what the review comes up with, but sacking a coach and then not combing the country for a replacement seems absurd. Mitch was there when Britts was appointed. If he was such a stand out how come his name didn't come up then?

Sticks has been the footy person on the committee for many years and so has responsibility for football decisions made by the board. He was also there when Elliott was running amok and either didn't or wouldn't ask hard questions of the Prez or get answers and act on them. I love Sticks and his loyalty but we need to leave the past behind, and certainly not go down the jobs for mates path. really if SOS is being seriously considered for the coaching job I think I'll throw my hat in the ring.

The club is bigger than the individual.

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Bloody oath!

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

I agree with DrSOS as well for the same reasons as I have stated on other threads...I appreciate he was a great player, loves the club but you cant milk that forever and he needs some runs on the board with his admin/director roles...we seem to be making the same mistakes using the same methods and he is at the forefront of it....the supporters/members have every right to question his position,methods and results...

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Sticks changing his mind at various times on the right Coach for the role is nothing out of the ordinary and hopefully expected as part of his role. Removing Brittain and perhaps Pagan were / are difficult decisions brought about by a complete failure of the Club to move forward in both instances. Britts removal was political as well but still he had the first spoon.

Pagan has had 2 spoons and for Sticks to not doubt Pagan at this stage he must see oir know something we dont.

Any move for Mitchell is likely to have a cost and business issue. Yes, its a football Club and we should have the best Coach for the job but its also a business. The CFC is a business and if itwasnt a footy club it would have closed down by now....we need to move ahead and present a fresh face for 2007. More of the same and will we lose another 5000 members? Who knows but we cant risk it.

Sticks changing his mind and firing Coaches may be seen as a yes man by some but its also what you would expect. Should expect.

And for those who know - what role did Sticks have in Pagan's contract extension? My recollection at the time is that it was a Collo-Pagan meeting and done in 10 minutes...wasn't that from a Caro article of the time?

WTF!

Pagan says let me stay, STicks says NO!

Elliot says 1 in, all in, STicks says No!

What a crock of shit, I reckon most of us here were pretty bloody happy to get Pagan, it has not worked out.

Kernahan is not the issue here. A weak board is more the issue.


Get a grip folks.



We will be Richmond by the end of the week at this rate.

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Oompa loompa doompety dee
If you are wise you'll listen to me

I can't remember the story of the time, Molsey, but if you;re correct then Caro seems to have changed her tune on Sticks' role in Pagan's re-signing.

This from today's article:

Nicely put, EB.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

If you have the responsibility to hire an fire as you suggested and being a part of running a business...wouldnt you be expected to get it right....be judged on your results and accept the responsibility if you get it wrong Would another Director/Administrator be afforded the luxury of getting it wrong so often over a decent time span....I guess being a legend gives you that luxury but for how long?..how many coaches....Brittain, Pagan, Mitchell, SOS, Ratten....I want someone who can get it right.....and you need proper process to do that...

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

I dont believe that Sticks has anything but the best interests of CFC at heart.
It doesnt mean he is right but the believes he is right. I dont think he should have te final say. A bit like dermie pushing for gary Ayres, Ian dicker realised the conflict there and went for the best candidate.

Guys like Sticks ratten and SOS are unique. The culture they would bring is of loyalty and love for the club. I have no doubtds about any of them. What I dont like is the attitude that they would only work with mitchell.

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T E A M

Yes, Elwood - you're right. He's made mistakes. Or in hindsight has.

My point was that we should expect him to change his mind and support different Coaches throughout his career. If he was too inflexible to see the impact of the changing demands on the game, and needs of the Club, then he's in the wrong spot. That's all - wasn't arguing that we haven't made mistakes.

In terms of his role in the Pagan re-extension, the press at the time doesnt seem to cover it:

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/arti ... m=storyrhs

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/20 ... 333665.htm

http://www.theage.com.au/realfooty/news ... 89808.html

If Sticks was against re-appointing Pagan at the time Caro would have been all over it like every other issue at the club. Collo would have made sure she got the story
The fact that there is no mention in the press at the time suggests to me it had Sticks blessing.

Sticks says "I'll go to Siberia if we win the wooden spoon"...and so far I don't think he has - so he's not a man of his word either

" Calling Mr.Stephen Kernahan - the 1.00pm flight for Vladivostok has now boarded; please make your way to Gate 4"

Now - here's my two cents...
The review process; and the boards' recommendation - I believe - will target Elshaug. He's gone, but Pagan stays - to be assessed during 2007. That leaves DP with a decision...accept the change/s to his coaching staff and therefore the amended contract (a condition written in as part of his contract is that he can have 1 assistant of his choosing) - or leave with a payout, provided that the club has the funds from the so-called 'group' written in concrete. A second review to be done - this time from respected Carlton people outside the inner sanctum (Fitzpatrick / Maclure / Walls / Glascott / etc) to recruit the 2007 coaching staff. Libba / TD to reapply for their jobs...Dempsey retained as ruck coach. Mitchell by no means guarenteed of the top job...he has to demonstrate why he is the best person for the job.

I honestly think Stricks just loves the club and wants the best for it, but like many of us here, just isn't sure how to go about it.

That's re-assuring.