Have no idea of contracts but my opinion is

DEFINITES

Livo Round 2 when McPharlin kick 3 on him and he saw the pine for the rest of the game was it for Livo.I think he has been harshly done by to some degree and he needed an opportunity to play in attack or on the ball. I cant see how he improves our structure as some suggest down back and has become a permanent Bullant. Decision making not good enough and too small for a FullBack

Davies Not entirely his own fault but needs to make way for more young blood.Perhaps the bad back was not the final fling rather the 2 punches he delivered in the VFL finals last year.To me that showed he wasnt fair dinkum about making it.Shame as the guy has special talent.


Saddington Not good enough .Not hard enough and knee is [REDACTED].27 and gone .Wasted pick at 52.The club has stated that no player over 24 will be picked up.Better late than never.

Teague The classic case of a player who the game has passed by.Too slow,short and not good enough to play a midfield inside role.I bet he wished we still played at Princess, but the telstra dome has found him out.In the games he has played he mentally to me seems shot.Will be a great pickup in any other standard of footy but not in the AFL.

Longmuir Injuries have not helped.Had the opportunity to cement a spot as a hybrid forward but luck and form against him.

Chambers Has done well in the VFL but showed no faith by selectors in the big ones.Not enough strings to the bow.Will be a great pickup for any other club besides AFL

Prendergast Terrific clubman and great trier but his disposal makes him a liability and 192cm guys are becoming the norm in the AFL now.Has had enough chances.

Sporn Had more chances than most.Too slow and lacks intensity. Not up to AFL standard.

Kouta Despite last weeks form his days are just about up.Isnt going to improve in 2007.Make way for the new generation.


Stevens The big call.Stevens is 26 so he will be about 30 when we are back where we belong and he may be struggling to get a game. I say trade him while he is still worth something. He may be more than handy at Melbourne where he has a better opportunity of winning a flag.


MAYBES
French Mclaren Deluca Batson


We are weak in the ruck department so these guys may be retained but French is getting on in age
McLaren IMO is not good enough
Deluca needs to become a ruckman to keep a regular spot in the team.Next year is a big one for Archie
Batson I cannot believe even with the restrictions in the VFL that this guy hasnt played in the Bullants 1s with our shortage of ruckstocks
McGrath Has done enough in 2006 but would need to be better in 2007 to be retained
Hartlett Through no fault of his own hasnt played a senior game yet.Next year is important.Must show he is durable in the bod otherwise the questions will start to be asked.
Banno Done enough to be kept but needs to up the anty in 2007.Stars at VFL level just ok at AFL level.however can run and has height.
Wiggins Big improver in2006 but must reduce the clanger count otherwise as the quality of the side improves will find himself out on the outer.
ROOKIES
Promote Jackson definitely
Batson definitely because of our pathetic ruck stocks
Flint Like him Promote or keep on the list
Keep O'Hailpin Work in progress but rewards could be great.
Smith Despite a great attitude and work ethic on the field I reckon he may not be good enough Delist

Keogh,

I agree with everything you have written except the following:

- keep Stevens. Along with Fev and Lance (and Murphy very soon) he is the only class player we have. As much as I love high draft picks and understand he will be past his best when we next challenge, we need to remain competitive and have some quality players to help develop our youngsters.

- McLaren is worth keeping as a "back up" ruckman in case of injury.

I am hopeful that Wiggins has turned the corner and Hartlett deserves 2 more years IMO.

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There is no footy god

Stevens is far from a definite delisting. McLaren will definitely stay, and Batson just isn't good enought to get promoted just because our ruck stocks are pathetic. A ruckman should be picked up in the National Draft, so Batson is almost a definite delisting.

Any one who wants to delist stevens is not fairdinkum

Stevens gets the no1 tagger each week, if we get rid of him, Murphy becomes the target man......I think we can afford that to happen.....far from a definite.

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"Dont count the games, make the games count"

I don't believe Keogh said to delist Stevo. In fact he said trade him to Melbourne.


This is a position that plenty of posters agree with. Personally I think we would get a better deal from the Pies. After all they wanted him 3 years ago and because his father played a couple of reserves games for them, that was his preferred destination too. Why would we trade him you may ask? Simple he is about the most unaccountable mid in our squad. Looks flashy sometimes when he gets the feed from the extractors, but just doesn't put in going the other way. I say get what we can whilst he is currency. There are plenty of kids playing U18 that would kill for an opportunity on the list. Kids that will do as they are flower told. Stevens will not.

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2002:> "In their Masters Chambers
They Gathered for their Feast
They Stabbed us with their Steely Knives
But They Just Can't Kill The Beast!" <2016

THE BLUEBAGGER BEAST IS BAACKK!!

Teague, Saddington, McLaren, De Luca are all contracted.

Can't delist all our ruckmen & not sure about French's long term future.

Jackson & Flint can be kept on next year. Would expect to use as many picks as possible in the draft.

Not sure why Stevens is included here. Sounds like trade or delist. That won't happen. Stevens was offered to Melbourne but didn't want to go there, preferred to go into the PSD.

You must be joking!!! You cannot put Stevens anywhere near the calibre of hacks you have in delistings. He is a class player. I can't believe the crap this bloke get's on this website. He is the only bloke other teams worry about in the middle. In three years time when we have Murph,Blakers and Gibbs running around with him instead of him having 2 carry the load week in week out will become a valuable teacher 2 them. He is our clearance king in the guts!! Agree with the delistings but 2 have nick in there is disgrace. What your saying is get rid of Fev and Red as well cause they will be 30 next time we'll be good, come on mate wake up and smell the coffee!!!!!!!

I think Stevens is a good player.Dont get me wrong.Its what you personally think.I think he should be traded as long as we get something in return. Young kids hopefully.Where will Stevens be at in 4 years time.Who knows but one things for certain we will be better and Stevens will be 30. And Stevens may not want to be at Carlton at that time if he wants to play in a flag.There are 4s and againsts for both arguments.

Two things that cannot be argued are
1 He has been found out to be not as good as what most people thought he was(Choco Williams was right) because he is too easily tagged out of the game at times
2 He hasnt improved his deficiences.Dont give me stats about hard balled gets and clearences He gets more game time in the middle than Blackwell ,Bentick etc so he should be up there.He is very much a one way player.

Stevens is 26.He is at the peak of his career age wise.If we dont trade him now it will be Lappin revisited unless he is a freak like Tuck and Bradley. Yes Stevens stands out in our side because we have basically been shit for a while.Yes he is a good disposer of the prune.Yes he runs hard most of the time and gets the best Tag every week.But in my opinion he is only a good player not a very good one and now would be the time he is value.

Simple delistings:

Livingston
Prendergast
Longmuir
Sporn
Davies
Chambers

Retirements

Kouta
French

Question Marks Over: (If uncontracted)

Bannister , Wiggins, McGrath

We simply need too make some room, especially if we promote one or two off the rookie list.

With Teague, DeLuca, Saddington etc contracted for one more year, the last three may be looked at too allow us room in the draft and PSD.

I think Bannister, Wiggins and even McGrath have done enough too stay on in my opinion, and of course Teague, Saddington and DeLuca I would say should go before them, but unfortunately with the contract situation, and the need to get some kids out of the draft, we may need too sacrifice one or two we would normally give another chance.

I think we may have too wear Bryan and Mclaren being ruck options for us for one or two more years. As long as they make a contest, and we rove too the opposition ruckman in some cases we can wear that, but I think French's time has come, and with the list management process he may need too be let go.

If we promote two rookies, and have 5 picks in the national draft and one in the psd that is 8 spots.

What happens then? We delist / retire those eight plus one of Bannister, Wiggins or McGrath, or payout Teague, DeLuca or Saddington if needed.

If Bryan shows what he did againts Essendon* most weeks, then he deserves too stay. Very mobile, fair mark, and good kick. And should hold his own in the ruck.

Stevens must stay, and can show his real worth as the list develops over the next 12 - 24 months.

_________________
Supporting the Blues No Matter What

Not in the last few weeks. Has mostly played in defence and has played no more than a quarter in the middle. Bentick & Blackwell have spent far more time there.

Over the year I mean.And maybe Stevens playing in defence is a message from the coach.

Yeah the message is 2 try and give the bloke a break from being tagged and use is calmness coming out of defence.

Negatives of getting rid or trading him are:
1- Murph becomes a prime target at the young age of 19.
2- The kicking skills of the team drop 2 a worst eb that we are already at.
3- Won't win enough ball in the guts 2 feed Fev.
4- Who knows what we get 4 him could turn out 2 be a dud.

Positives are:
1- ??

His clanger rate hasnt been too bad. Most people assume his disposal has been bad due to his unco kicking action. One bloke who really has stepped up this year.

What message were we giving Campo last year when he was moved to half-back? Stevens is definitely different...but its not to give him a break from being tagged..

Which leads us on to Marc Murphy....he WILL have the best tagger each week by the end of next season, if not the start. This is regardless of whether Nick Stevens is still at the club.

_________________
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

You just don't get rid of class,talented and experienced players. They don't grow on trees. What message does that send out 2 the rest of the squad? If your not playing brownlow footy when your 26 our club will turf you out or delist you that's just not on. Nick Stevens is playing in a team with the worst midfield and does not have any support. The only blokes up 2 it at the moment are scotland and simo. Blackwell still learning and murph has been quoted as saying that he is learning the craft of who? none other than stevens! Every post i've read about recriutment on this website is about the lack of mids we have, yet some morons want 2 get rid of the best player we have in the middle. Probably the same people that wanted 2 trade Fevola last year. You just don't get rid of class AFL talent!

I would only trade Stevens if I was trading up....when our list improves he will be a better player so I wouldnt be to hasty in trading him away for nothing...also his value in the market place wouldnt be as high as normal at the moment so the idea of selling him when his value is down doesnt make good footy economics....

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Based on the ladder as we speak:

Kouta = pick 1

Davies = pick 17

Livingston = pick 19

Longmuir = pick 35

Chambers = pick 51

Sporn = Pre season pick 1

Then the questions come

1. Do we promote rookies? Are Jackson, Flint or Smith that compelling to be elevated? Give that none have been given a game yet, it appears the match committee don't think so.

2. Do we pay out contracts - Lappin, Teague, Saddington? Costs a lot of money to allow us to access pick 67 or a rookie.

3. Do we go the extra step and delist some or all of the likes of - McGrath, DeLuca, Bryan, Prendergast, Bannister? Again we are swapping these guys for pick 67 or a rookie. Maybe the cast offs from other clubs are better than these players, so we delist and pick up some extras at the end of the draft.

4. In 2007 - we probably find that Lappin, Teague and Saddington go, at this stage it wouldn't look good for 3 of the 5 in question 3. French might be retired also.

5. With all these delistings - we still retain, McLaren, Houlihan, Wiggins, Bentick, Carrazzo who all have their limitations and we have unknown quantities in Russell, Hartlett and Raso.

It will still take time and we can't afford any mistakes.

_________________
Get comfortable being uncomfortable

Mayor of Hiroshima....

I was with you until that little gem - which came early on in the post, so it went to sh!t pretty early...

Livo was a bad choice. We rolled the dice and lost... Having played with him at Bendigo U18 (a year behind), I was happy when he got picked, but at number 4, I thought the Blue boys admin had lost the plot. Then we drafted the most-injured and least-willing-to-rehab player in the country, Callum Beasy (I know because I spent time with him on the massage table) and I knew things were not good in the recruiting dept.... Two good mates, but holy moly, talk about a reach...

At that point, I resigned myself to smoking bongs and playing country footy for $200 a week.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

Except for a few early games up forward Livo has played purely as a fullback both for the Blues and the Ants. So how do we know how he could have gone in the middle.The fact is he is too small for a fullback in the AFL.He has only been tried in one position which has hindered his development.