TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Honest assessments of the game against Essendon*?

4thchicken there are some posters on this board that are out their F@%&#! minds.

Essendon* were missing some serious quality yesterday and all Carlton could manage was to scrap a draw in the last 3 minutes. True some of Essendons missing players are past their best and wont be there next season, but had they been out there yesterday Essendon* would have won. Carlton was missing a 17 year old first year player from its best 22. Acknowledge Waite and Fisher were underdone.

But in reality Carlton has the worst list in the league and are so far off being a competitive team its no longer funny. As a team they are no better than 3 years ago which is the real concern. Denis Pagan has done nothing in the time he has been at this football club and right now the club is gong nowehre. on and off the field.
If this years Carlton team has shown improvement then the team in 2003, 2004 & 2005 must have been at VFL standard cos Carlton 2006 is bloody awful.

Carlos's game ... T-Bird's game ... Corey's WWF-styled body slam ... Eddie's last goal ... That we played four quarters !!!

Hoops didn't have a bad one, either, and whilst Simmo stood up when it counted, Kouta showed signs of old - I suggested that he retire at half-time, which he should have done, coz his second half wasn't as good as his first.

I take it as a win, just quietly - the best game I've seen since the Ds win in Round 1!!!

Ok name the quality they were missing...

Synbad wrote:

Ok name the quality they were missing...

Lloyd - remove Fevola
Fletcher - remove Thornton
Hird - remove Kouta

there were more, but i think you get the point.

take kouta out of yesterdays game

I always love your glass half empty approach 4thChicken. It gets the usual crowd fired up.

Author:	4thchicken [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:42 am ]
Post subject:	*Honest assessments of the game against Essendon?**
Anyone want to provide one? - I didnt catch any of the match due to other commitments but was expecting to win and win comfortably (as would most posters I'd imagine). However, from my perspective - irrespective of how you rate the individual players - Essendon* was missing 1/3 of their first 22 (as they would select the team). Hird fletcher Mcphee Lloyd Johns Lovett Murrey Rioli Ramanaskus It's fairly depressing to see how much we have lost in terms of pride - that we can be satisfied with scraping home a draw against a bottom side with 1/3 of their best players out (compare that to our 2 outs - a 1st year draftee and a journeyman). Whilst murphy might be one of our top players - if you asked most football followers to list essendons top 5 players, then hird, fletcher, lloyd and mcphee would be firmly entrenched within most peoples list. So - if we hold off on the positives thread (basically youth getting more groundtime/experience) - how did people really see the game? Where are we at? Do Essendon* (on #players injured throughout the year) deserve to be ranked higher than carlton? (much like 2002 when injuries made us look a lot worse than we were)

Author:	fjanyc [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:23 am ]
Post subject:
I will defer to others as I have not had a chance to view the replay yet given that I'm in NY, but I have disagree with the substance of your argument. Other than Lloyd, I'm not sure how many on that list will be at Windy Hill beyond next season. It's kind of like what we used to say in 2002 and 2003 when Ratts, Hickmott, McKay, Manton etc were out missing. They were missing because they were at the end. I would trade all of that Essendon* list for one Marc Murphy because he represents something no-one on that list represents -- the future!

Author:	JackWorrall [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:38 am ]
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It was an excellent game, which showed how we are going to be excellent in the future. Our young players are developing extremely well, and the games of several were outstanding. Yes, they made some mistakes, but I'm mindful of the fact that the prime movers who made the occasional error were 19-21 years-old. Remember where we were a couple of years ago, and then look at yesterday's game, and you should be smiling.

Author:	Molly [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:51 am ]
Post subject:
I always love your glass half empty approach 4thChicken. It gets the usual crowd fired up.

Author:	ScottSaunders [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:53 am ]
Post subject:	*Re: Hoest assessments of the game against Essendon?**
fletcher Lloyd I can accept those two Mcphee Lovett Murrey Maybe in the top 22 but nothing that they cant cover with players they already have. Will Not be There Next Year Hird Rioli Ramanaskus Johns You are taking the piss arent you Make no mistake, both sides where crap last night. The difference - they where relying on the likes of Johnson's Soloman etc.. to win the game for them. Us - we where relying on the likes of Blackwell, AB's etc.. to win the game for us. We are only going to get better, they are yet to bottom out. Llyod (just under 30) and Fletcher (over 30) are not the future for that club anyways. Those two coming back int the side isnt going to make them a top 8 side. We are miles ahead of them, it was only poor decision making and poos disposal at times that saw us draw that game. That will come with experiences Aslong as out kids continue to get a game and develop we are on the right track. Season hihglights for have been this. Not Kouta, Not Whaitnall, hell not ever Fevola's improvement (Which has been great) but seeing Murphy, seeing Blackwell, seeing AB's, seeing Simpson etc... develop into players that are the starting 22. That is our future and these players no longer look lost on the field. Combine that with the mid range plyers starting to show something as well i.e. T-Bird, Waite, Fisher (all young and yet to hit the 100 game mark) we are well on the right track. I liken us to where the Bulldaogs where about 2 - 3 years ago. A young side, that makes things hard for themsevles, they normally dont get beaten and beat themselves through turn overs and errors rather than getting smashed from pillar to post. This year will be about not having the legs to run out a game, next year will be about Honorable loses, the year after will be about making the finals, with the next few years after that seeing a decent attempt at getting a gf game

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	budzy [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:55 am ]
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We are just a very mentally immature footy team at the moment which is out of its depth against the majority of other teams. Lots more onfield time for the kids with specific achievable roles to play will see them improve over time.

Author:	TheGame [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:58 am ]
Post subject:
Entertaining game and we were the better team but our skill's were far worse than Essendon*'s. We dominated the play but they cut us up on the counterattack numerous times.

Author:	Abaddon [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:11 am ]
Post subject:
4thchicken there are some posters on this board that are out their @#$%&! minds. Essendon* were missing some serious quality yesterday and all Carlton could manage was to scrap a draw in the last 3 minutes. True some of Essendons missing players are past their best and wont be there next season, but had they been out there yesterday Essendon* would have won. Carlton was missing a 17 year old first year player from its best 22. Acknowledge Waite and Fisher were underdone. But in reality Carlton has the worst list in the league and are so far off being a competitive team its no longer funny. As a team they are no better than 3 years ago which is the real concern. Denis Pagan has done nothing in the time he has been at this football club and right now the club is gong nowehre. on and off the field. If this years Carlton team has shown improvement then the team in 2003, 2004 & 2005 must have been at VFL standard cos Carlton 2006 is bloody awful.

Author:	Synbad [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:16 am ]
Post subject:
Abaddon wrote: 4thchicken there are some posters on this board that are out their F@%&#! minds. Essendon* were missing some serious quality yesterday and all Carlton could manage was to scrap a draw in the last 3 minutes. True some of Essendons missing players are past their best and wont be there next season, but had they been out there yesterday Essendon* would have won. Carlton was missing a 17 year old first year player from its best 22. Acknowledge Waite and Fisher were underdone. But in reality Carlton has the worst list in the league and are so far off being a competitive team its no longer funny. As a team they are no better than 3 years ago which is the real concern. Denis Pagan has done nothing in the time he has been at this football club and right now the club is gong nowehre. on and off the field. If this years Carlton team has shown improvement then the team in 2003, 2004 & 2005 must have been at VFL standard cos Carlton 2006 is bloody awful. Ok name the quality they were missing...

Author:	Car17on [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:22 am ]
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Up to half-time I found it difficult to fault any one player. The usual suspects - Sporn, Deluca, etc - weren't in the 1st 22 so you would not have expected the usual number of clangers. Then, slowly but surely, the mistakes started - mostly in the midfield, then up forward during the pressure. McGrath and Fevs notably, then Thornton (although he more than compensated for his errors by his fine ball work). Neither team deserved to lose, so I think the result was justified. I have posted my highlights ... p(12)terg wrote: Carlos's game ... T-Bird's game ... Corey's WWF-styled body slam ... Eddie's last goal ... That we played four quarters !!! Hoops didn't have a bad one, either, and whilst Simmo stood up when it counted, Kouta showed signs of old - I suggested that he retire at half-time, which he should have done, coz his second half wasn't as good as his first. I take it as a win, just quietly - the best game I've seen since the Ds win in Round 1!!! 17:10 AEST for the highlights to be posted at afl.com.au in the video vauly. Wonder why so late? Anyway, a sign of things to come, hopefully ..

Author:	TheGame [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:22 am ]
Post subject:
They were missing their best forward and their best backman. Take out Fev and Thornton and we get thrashed.

Author:	Abaddon [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:33 am ]
Post subject:
Synbad wrote: Ok name the quality they were missing... Lloyd - remove Fevola Fletcher - remove Thornton Hird - remove Kouta there were more, but i think you get the point.

Author:	Synbad [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:35 am ]
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They never play Fletcher on Fev.. he would have played on Fish or Waite... Fletcher is a hack and has been for 3 or 4 years. Ok, they were missing Greg Laganis...The All Australian CHB could have gone there after Lucas... No worries. Who else?

Author:	TheGame [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:42 am ]
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Actually Fletcher has thrashed him nearly every time he's played on him. Didn't play on him this year as he didn't play. We had the stronger side out there yesterday and still lost because we play a poor brand of footy. How often did Essendon* get loose players on the break? Why can't we do this? Because our guys are too scared to leave their opponents. Fancy having your best ball winner last week chasing Lovetts tail all day.

Author:	Kouta [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:
Abaddon wrote: take kouta out of yesterdays game And add a Murphy, Bower, Hartlett, Jackson, Flint, Raso or Edwards. Essendon's kids? All out there apart from Dempsey. Essendon could add McPhee, Lloyd, Lovett-Murray, Johns and Laycock plus this year's first round draft pick and win close to 10 games next year if they're lucky. And they'll think they're not far away from it like Carlton after we won ten games in 2004, but they're nowhere near it. They've got a huge shock coming when Lloyd, Lucas, Hird, Fletcher, etc. all give it away within 2-3 years of each other. We've got French, Lappin and Kouta. They should have kept the draft pick they traded for Cole and drafted a tall forward in Cleve Hughes but they're still challenging for the flag.

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Author:	Abaddon [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:47 am ]
Post subject:
Nick Stevens is too scared to find an opponent. Before the game i tipped the blues by 40 points. Yesterdays effort against an undermanned Essendon* who Carlton should be able to beat even when they're at full-strength reminded me just how bad Carlton really is.

Author:	Wangers [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:50 am ]
Post subject:
Whilst the positives were our youngsters, we lost yesterday, even though history will say were drew. We lost because if we are to get a priority pick before the 2nd round, effectively we can only win one game out of 6 from here on. Would have been good to win two games to get to 16 points. We lost because we could still finish bottom as we are still a game away from 16th, when we could have been two games clear and virtually guaranteed 15th, thus avoiding the spoon. We lost when you look at it this way!!!!

Author:	Synbad [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:51 am ]
Post subject:
Abaddon wrote: Synbad wrote: Ok name the quality they were missing... Lloyd - remove Fevola Fletcher - remove Thornton Hird - remove Kouta there were more, but i think you get the point. More???Like how Rama wasnt playing this time? Or Courtney Johns??? Oh rubbish!!! and if I wouldnt care of Kouta was removed anyway.... Fev would have murdered Fletcher and Solomon is like Lance.. you have to pick and choose his spot each week. Fev would have been his only match up.... and if Fletcher played and was murdered.. and solomon was dropped.. you blokes would have said "No Solomon" they arent last with 15 games without a win because theyre a good side... Thinking like that is like the year we won our first spoon... "We had all those players out.. just wait till next year" Theyre REALLY last and winless for almost the entire season because theyre shit!!!... Thats all... And some of them dont get it yet... Lloyd "Ill be back for the finals" Sheedy "We took Campo because he gives us legs and this is the first time we have managed to get a gun out of the PSD.. he will help give Hirdy a flag send off" Just tripping.... Its really about how our kids went against their kids. I reckon ours won.!!

Author:	Abaddon [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:
we all know Essendon* isn't a good side. they're shithouse. and carlton just managed a draw. yesterdays game was a true indication of where carlton is at. and that is terrible. take kouta out of yesterdays game and you have to take his 2 goals out then too.

Author:	4thchicken [ Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:
Molly wrote: I always love your glass half empty approach 4thChicken. It gets the usual crowd fired up. I'm quite positive about the blues prospects actually - unlike others who have bemoaned the list, I have always been consistent in saying that we are capable of making the 8 if we had the majority of our players performing at near capability, most of the time (90+% for each). I'm not talking potential - rather what they have shown. If thats glass 1/2 empty then maybe I should be saying that we should have won the flag over the previous few years! On the players out Courtney johns - was actually presenting quite well prior to being injured. He is still young and will be a reasonable player bar injury. Ramanaskas - hasnt played due to cancer treatment, but most people would agree that were it not for that he would be a very good player Fletcher - regardless of whether you rate him or not (ie synbad), I'd say 90+% of neutral supporters would state that fletcher would be their best KP defender. McPhee - A very good player lloyd - their best forward Hird - A very good player on his last legs. Still capable of having an influence in matches albeit less frequently lovett murray/rioli - rate them or not - fact is most Essendon* supporters would have them in their first 22 I think most people have misunderstood my concerns. I'm not dismissing our youth - I'm reasonably happy with what we got (even after taking into account walkers disposal and hartletts injuries). However, how many of you would have been thinking I'll be very happy with a draw prior to yesterdays match? (ignoring any tanking/PP discussion). On pure form/ability I expected to win and win comfortably (apparently that makes me a glass 1/2 empty person). Next time you respond in this thread how about you put down what result you were expecting prior to yesterday's match and the margin? - For myself I was expecting a comfortably 5 goal win. We have been on the bottom for near on 5 years - and we were playing against a team who have probably hit rock bottom (lloyd back will make a huge difference to on field performance due to team structure). They might be near the bottom again next year but I doubt they will struggle as as much as this season. If you take the above into consideration and the fact that they were missing at least 8 of their best 22 then I think its a concern that we scaped in for a draw in the last 2 minutes or so. Dont rate any of the 8 that are out as being good players in the dons best 22? Well the fact is they are in the best 22. What do you think would have been the result yesterday if they had those 8 players in and we had our 8 weakest players in the team out. Would the dons scrap home with a draw in the last 2 minutes against a team that has been at the bottom for near on 5 years? Call me crazy but I think they would have won and won comfortably.