TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Our rucks on game day: Who do we go with?

I honestly believe that Bryan is THE BEST 2ND OPTION!

He's a great ruckman, and forward, but he's only a pinch-hitter in the ruck.

Hence the reason i wouldn't be that upset if we got somebody like Gardiner.

French is GAWN! Has been less than pathetic all year, and has had his fair share of chance.
But whilst i'm happy that Bryan has FINALLY got his chance at the senior level...................i'm hoping Denis and the club realise that he is not a prefered #1 Ruckman material!

We need a #1 ruck option!

We may be crying out for a ruckman, but we sure as hell are also crying out NOT to take a flower with no brains, no work ethic, no loyalty to team, injuries, and an attitude problem even Anthony Robbins couldn't fix.....

If Carlton opt for a used wad like Gardiner over Aker, I'll spew.

Kaptain Kouta wrote:

which is why i said there has to be very strict terms attached to it if we think he's not training hard enough (which a lot of players including nathan brown say he worked really hard this season) or if he's gonna get pissed and smash cars we have to get rid of him straight away. let him know it's his last chance.

true_blue24 wrote:

Kaptain Kouta wrote:

But why waste a list spot for a guy who is 75% likely to piss the spot away? And then halfway through the season, we're still as bereft, ruck-wise as we are now?

There are some risks worth taking, some which are dangerous, and some which are just plain dumb. Gardiner is worse than dumb.

Author:	phoenix johnson [ Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Our rucks on game day: Who do we go with?
There has been some debate in this weeks game day thread about which ruckmen (DeLuca, French, McLaren, Bryan) we should go with on game day. Today we Bryan and French team up and take on Hille. IMO I thought they did quite well against one of the up and coming ruckman in the league. In the VFL, McLaren and DeLuca teamed up to take on Port Melbournes ruckman. So which combo do we go with? For mine, I thought todays combo is the best. I reckon DeLuca is better up forward than he is in the ruck and, if recent weeks have anything to say, Pagan also believes that theory as well. Not sure what to do with McLaren. Isn't much of a ruckman in the middle, doesn't get around the ground enough and isn't the best forward. French is excellent in the middle. Hasn't been at his usual best the past few weeks, but tries his guts out week in, week out. Bryan, while he isn't so flash in the middle, moves well around the ground and is lethal with that kick of his.

Author:	Deano Supremo [ Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:
How about Josh Kennedy? Nah, I'm with you PJ. The team looks a little more solid with Bear in it. I like his work around the ground. French is slowing down pretty quickly - not sure how long he has left in him.

Author:	Kaptain Kouta [ Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:
From the sounds of the match (I listened to it), the French/Bryan combination certainly caused Hille problems, and when Bryan was moved forward in the 3rd, Lucas was shifted back, presumably in an attempt to stop him as a marking target. I think you summed it up pretty well, PJ.

Author:	atcho [ Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:12 pm ]
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I thought Pagans tactic of getting Bryan to do the centre ruck work and push forward while Whitnall did the around the ground stuff through parts of the second half worked quite well. Not sure if Lance could do that throughout a game though.

Author:	budzy [ Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:
I'd prefer French/Bryan for the rest of the year. French for his height in the ruck and Bryan for his skills and mobility. I think Archie should be working fulltime on his ruckwork right now with a ruck coach and doing a full on apprenticeship with the bullants for the rest of this year and next year. He's got the height & mobility, all he needs is a bit of know how. If French decides he's had enough at seasons end I reckon Pagan might go after Gardiner. shudder

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	jimmae [ Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:21 pm ]
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I think that with the top heavy nature of our side, and with the ruckmen being the weakest link, we need to look at selecting only one specialist ruckman, and having a relief strategy in place for 5 or 10 minutes of each quarter. Obviously at the moment the debate for the sole (yeah) ruckman is between French and Bryan, so: French Positives: Ruckwork, height, reasonable mobility, fitness, centre bounce work Negatives: Form, decision making and resultant skills of recent times. Bryan Positives: Disposal, strength, stoppage work, marking, forward option Negatives: Mobility, fitness, centre bounce work. That leads onto the advantages and disadvantages of having only one specialist ruckman in your team, which of course varies from team to team, but is a more poignant question in a tall team like Richmond last year, us this year, etc. Positives: Room for another runner, more fresh legs through the midfield, other talls allowed more game time in certain roles, could provide a more traditional structure in the forward line. Negatives: How much do we suffer against a side with two genuine ruck options, can our pinch-hitter choices cope in the role, how will the change to relieve the main ruckman affect our setup.

Author:	mjonc [ Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:21 pm ]
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French is shite this season. Should be demoted to the Bullants. Bryan gives us the added weapon with his marking and kicking ability, all we need is someone to be Bryan's assistant, which at present we don't have.

Author:	Bluesy [ Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:
clearly Bryan is the man to go with...clearly....French was worst on ground and has been poor all year pretty much, Mclaren is not a ruckmen and Bryan actually did quite well today..I prefer the Bryan/Deluca combo at this stage as both can play forward..Deluca would be the guy to take over for Bryan for a few minutes with Bryan being the main man...Would like to see us recruit in the draft or by trade a quality ruckman and have Bryan as the no.2 at some stage.

Author:	Mickstar [ Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:	The Bear
Thrilled with "The Bear".This guy has got a lot to offer.Get Archie back in the side despite his deficiencies.At 202cm with fair pace and mobility he could be lethal on the HFF. Rucks are not nearly the problem you guys seem to think.We need more mobile onballers more than anything.And i am hoping like bloody hell that they promote Jackson and give him a go.He has the attributes that we require NOW.

Author:	teknodeejay [ Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:
Bryan did alright. French doesnt appear to have any confidence which is a shame as he had a great year but form has considerably worsened. Not sure Bryan, McLaren or anyone can fill the void right now. Maybe something for the National or PSD?

Author:	teknodeejay [ Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:
They are suggesting Leuenberger might go 1 or 2 anyway so if Gibbs is gone...

Author:	ryan2000 [ Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:
I honestly believe that Bryan is THE BEST 2ND OPTION! He's a great ruckman, and forward, but he's only a pinch-hitter in the ruck. Hence the reason i wouldn't be that upset if we got somebody like Gardiner. French is GAWN! Has been less than pathetic all year, and has had his fair share of chance. But whilst i'm happy that Bryan has FINALLY got his chance at the senior level...................i'm hoping Denis and the club realise that he is not a prefered #1 Ruckman material! We need a #1 ruck option!

Author:	true_blue3 [ Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:
ryan2000 wrote: I honestly believe that Bryan is THE BEST 2ND OPTION! He's a great ruckman, and forward, but he's only a pinch-hitter in the ruck. Hence the reason i wouldn't be that upset if we got somebody like Gardiner. French is GAWN! Has been less than pathetic all year, and has had his fair share of chance. But whilst i'm happy that Bryan has FINALLY got his chance at the senior level...................i'm hoping Denis and the club realise that he is not a prefered #1 Ruckman material! We need a #1 ruck option! exactly which is why we should give gardiner a shot (with very strict terms where one stuff up and he is out) and next year use our first pick on a ruckman provided there's one that'll be worth it. gardiner is still only 26 and everyone knows ruckmen peak at about 29-30, so he could fill the hole for now but more importantly teach our younger ruckmen a few tricks of the trade. WE ARE CRYING OUT FOR A RUCKMAN!!

Author:	Kaptain Kouta [ Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:
We may be crying out for a ruckman, but we sure as hell are also crying out NOT to take a flower with no brains, no work ethic, no loyalty to team, injuries, and an attitude problem even Anthony Robbins couldn't fix..... If Carlton opt for a used wad like Gardiner over Aker, I'll spew.

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Author:	true_blue3 [ Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:
Kaptain Kouta wrote: We may be crying out for a ruckman, but we sure as hell are also crying out NOT to take a flower with no brains, no work ethic, no loyalty to team, injuries, and an attitude problem even Anthony Robbins couldn't fix..... If Carlton opt for a used wad like Gardiner over Aker, I'll spew. which is why i said there has to be very strict terms attached to it if we think he's not training hard enough (which a lot of players including nathan brown say he worked really hard this season) or if he's gonna get pissed and smash cars we have to get rid of him straight away. let him know it's his last chance.

Author:	ryan2000 [ Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:
YES True_blue your right.........................."WITH VERY STRICT TERMS!!!!" Gardiner would be on a short leash and would no doubt be wtahced by a few eyes at the club. But we could get him 'realtivley' cheap too, which could lower the 'Risk' side of things too!

Author:	true_blue3 [ Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:
Kaptain Kouta wrote: true_blue24 wrote: Kaptain Kouta wrote: We may be crying out for a ruckman, but we sure as hell are also crying out NOT to take a flower with no brains, no work ethic, no loyalty to team, injuries, and an attitude problem even Anthony Robbins couldn't fix..... If Carlton opt for a used wad like Gardiner over Aker, I'll spew. which is why i said there has to be very strict terms attached to it if we think he's not training hard enough (which a lot of players including nathan brown say he worked really hard this season) or if he's gonna get pissed and smash cars we have to get rid of him straight away. let him know it's his last chance. But why waste a list spot for a guy who is 75% likely to piss the spot away? And then halfway through the season, we're still as bereft, ruck-wise as we are now? There are some risks worth taking, some which are dangerous, and some which are just plain dumb. Gardiner is worse than dumb. yeah you make a good point but what do you suggest we do with french very likely to retire this year we're only going to have mclaren (194cm) and bryan(197cm) left as ruckmen. both are pinch hitters and need to be used as 2nd ruckmen we need a 1st ruckmen. and a decision which really would be plain dumb would be to waste our first pick on a ruckman in a draft like this year's one.

Author:	Blues2005 [ Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:
I think at this stage we should continue with the French/Bryan combination. The question that worries me though is who will be rucking for us in two years time? I don't think that anybody on here could answer this with any confidence.