hey what a great debate huh?
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| The Leadership Debate http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10761 |
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| Author: | barass [ Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The Leadership Debate |
It's time we addressed the core issue of leadership at the club. Do we have leadership at board level? Jury's out Do we have leadership at the player admin level (including coaches)? No Do we have leadership at the player level? No Who can we bring in or promote at each level to give is the leadership we need? We did it in the 60's with Barassi, we did it in the late 70's/early 80's with Fitzpatrick, and we did it in the mid 80's with Sticks. If this is not addressed we are going nowhere and we will never develop players. |
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| Author: | maxyblue [ Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:53 pm ] |
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barass had big nick, serge, collo, lofts, crane and i'm sure some others to work with. he was able to instill iron discipline to the core of stalwarts he inherited while adding elite talent to the group (jezza, crosswell, jackson, walls, southby, doull etc). we then had the luxury to have those talented guys like jezza, southby, doull, mckay, perc etc become the leaders and set the tone for the young guns of the late 70s (harmes, johno, sheldon, buckley, marcou, francis etc). this processed continued until it was broken with the mass retirements in the early part of this decade. the lack of continuity planning by parkin et al didn't help!! it's not just a matter of bringing in one guy. fitzy didn't introduce leadership as such, he was effectively next in line from a relatively large pool of leaders. at this point, we just have to draft natural leaders and develop them to take it upon themselves to draw a line in the sand and set a new standard at the club. fev and lance look as though they are making a statement. stevo came to us and looked like a captain in the making. circumstances seem to have wearied him. on the basis of their on-ground performances, lappo and kouta are clearly not deserving of their leadership status. |
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| Author: | dannyboy [ Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
hey what a great debate huh?
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| Author: | jimmae [ Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
dannyboy wrote: hey what a great debate huh?
Sorry Danny what did you say *bzzzzzzzzzzzzrt* Sorry Danny what did you say *bzzzzzzzzzzzzrt* Sorry Danny what did you say *bzzzzzzzzzzzzrt* Sorry Danny what did you say *bzzzzzzzzzzzzrt* Sorry Danny what did you say *bzzzzzzzzzzzzrt* Sorry Danny what did you say *bzzzzzzzzzzzzrt* Sorry Danny what did you say *bzzzzzzzzzzzzrt* *Gets bumped by an onlooker* Cheers, I was skipping. |
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| Author: | true_blue3 [ Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
it might sound a bit farfetched but i think marc murphy could be the man for the captaincy next year. we made sticks captain in his 2nd year in a team with a lot of good leaders (i'd assume) but at the moment no one apart from murph looks like they have the leadership capabilities kouta's all but finished whitnall just hasn't got enough football skill (i do think its importnat to be a really good player) and also we could use him as trade bait in coming years and stevo just hasnt got the heart to put his body on the line though he does have a super work ethic i know we'll probably get a better player than murph in this year's draft but i doubt if he'd have the obvious leadership skils murph has. YOUR thoughts? |
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| Author: | ranibear [ Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Stephen Kernahan had 5 years of senior footy in Adelaide behind him, plus the 1 at Carlton before he was made captain. In the future Marc Murphy maybe captain but let him just get settled first. |
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| Author: | malbi [ Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
It will go to Lance. It is obvious isn't it? |
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| Author: | Orangewhip [ Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Lance is the obvious candidate at the moment but how long is he going to be there? Has Lance got five good years in him of not only being able to lead the Blues well but be able to play at the current tempo week in, week out? Lance would be sensational at a club like Melbourne or Adelaide because the rest of the side would lift his output. I'm not suggesting trading him, only that by the time Lance has that type of support around him at Carlton his time may be through. Who would we look at out of the young crop? Murphy is a stand-out, consistent performer. Anybody know what his leadership skills were like at TAC level? It would be pretty unfair to expect him to take the reigns now. As a smokie I'd even throw Walker into the ring. He's been in the system a few years, he's going to be at Carlton when the club is back in the finals and has shown he's willing to put his head down and get on with whatever is asked of him. Whoever it is, I want someone with a bit of 'bastard' about them. Kouta was a nostalgia choice, or a 'fair' choice, (to be fair), but he doesn't have that f#*k-you! quality we desperately need. |
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| Author: | bondiblue [ Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Get Jude Bolton by offering him the captaincy. |
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| Author: | JK [ Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Bolton is my favourite player in the comp- absolute star- talk about a player that Carlton could do with.. 
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| Author: | The Duke [ Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Lance is the man to lead us as soon as Kouta steps aside(hopefully sooner rather than later). He will captain from next year until Murph is 22-23 by which time Lance will almost be ready to step into a coaching role. If there's anybody in the comp able to do that, it's Lance. The comments from Pagan and Thornton after the game this week just go to show that he is the man they all listen to and rely on - Kouta's an ornament and a once great champion, but just doesn't exude any real 'grab 'em by the scruff' leadership qualities. The sooner the big fella officially takes over the better we'll all be. |
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| Author: | Elwood Blues1 [ Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I think Stevens will be the interim captain....not Lance.....Murphy and Kennedy down the track might be the premiership skipper and vice captain. Murphy is a very impressive young bloke regardless of his ability and I see him and Kennedy being a Voss/Brown type combination. Leadership is very important...I think Geelong have suffered through lack of onfield leaders...King doesnt impress me and I think some of their other senior players dont have it in them to inspire others either...... I think its something we need to look for when we recruit younger players.......Brisbane had them on mass.....West Coast at their peak had similar...eg Worsfold, Jakovich, Mckenna, ...you dont win flags without it.... Talent without a strong core of leaders on the list wont win you a flag.... |
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| Author: | blueblood95 [ Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
please not Stevens!!!!!!:shock: No, he is gutless. 
The last person I want representing the blues. 
In our current circumstances it has to be Whitnall. 
Not stevens
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| Author: | The Duke [ Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
blueblood95 wrote: please not Stevens!!!!!!:shock:
No, he is gutless. The last person I want representing the blues. In our current circumstances it has to be Whitnall. Not stevens Amen brother!! Stevens?? 
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| Author: | Elwood Blues1 [ Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
blueblood95 wrote: please not Stevens!!!!!!:shock:
No, he is gutless. The last person I want representing the blues. In our current circumstances it has to be Whitnall. Not stevens Stevens doesnt have a issue with courage IMO and gutless isnt a word I would associate with anyone who steps onto the park to play...you need a certain amount of courage to be out there to begin with... No doubt with Whitnalls present form he has claims to the job but I think he has to prove himself over a longer period than just 10 games or so and he has age against him compared to Stevens.... |
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| Author: | MarkNo3 [ Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:27 pm ] |
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Some of the above post have great merit. I supported this club becuase my Dad did not becuase we were successful. That was just a bonus. At the risk of incurring the wrath of more seasoned and educated posters I would love to see Lance made as Captain with Marc Murphy his Vice. No more bullshit leadership group. The leaders at the club no who they are anyway. They coaching staff should be capable of ensuring nose arnt out of joint. My big query though would be with Lance. Can he continue in the way of the last two years? We really need to be sure that he will LEAD on all fronts. Marc Murphy is my choice for Captain in the long term but he could learn from Lance about the proud heritage of this club. Whilst it may not be proud at present it was when Lances father played and thats obviously why he is dyed in the wool blue. This bloke may or may not be traded but its clear that he is Carlton at Heart. Marc could learn from that. Remember that Lances realistically only has three years at elite level left in him regardless if he manages to continue to past 30. These two blokes have led this years without any real formal titles, in a year that has been pretty poor of late. They continue to do their best week in week out which is something others cannot say. Whatever the club decideds I just want them to show some balls with with decisions that will affect our future. They need to stop pussy footing around and make a stand. Show us they have a plan for the future. PS Synbad sorry to leave Wiggo out. Maybe if be can develop him into a bit of Murph aid by Reds brain then by all means
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| Author: | blueblood95 [ Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Elwood Blues1 wrote: blueblood95 wrote: please not Stevens!!!!!!:shock: No, he is gutless. The last person I want representing the blues. In our current circumstances it has to be Whitnall. Not stevens Stevens doesnt have a issue with courage IMO and gutless isnt a word I would associate with anyone who steps onto the park to play...you need a certain amount of courage to be out there to begin with... No doubt with Whitnalls present form he has claims to the job but I think he has to prove himself over a longer period than just 10 games or so and he has age against him compared to Stevens.... Stevens does not have the attributes of a leader. he is not selfless, couragous or inspiring. He is a smart footballer with good skills and handy to have on the list. whitnall is a franchise player who has been a living emblem of the club for nearly the past decade. he is playing great footy and I believe that he palys better when his confidence is up. THUS A perfect choice for captain. P.S. He could easily play for another 5 years and by that time the Murphy's and the Kennedy's will be prepared to lead. |
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| Author: | Sydney Blue [ Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Lance will be the next captain but after that Surely the Super Draftee will take the lead and lead this once mighty club out of the wilderness . It wont be the Messiah Murphy he would be lucky to make top 10 this year so I am told It will be Captain Super Draftee
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| Author: | dannyboy [ Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
oh so now a captain is only a top ten pick? I know one thing in this I agree with Jimmy Buckley wehn he questioned the worth of the current leadership group. It wasn't Pagan Jimmy had a problem with, it was th senior players. Jim looked angry at the half time chat against Port that Marc and other kids seemed to be the only ones flying the flag. |
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| Author: | Elwood Blues1 [ Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
blueblood95 wrote: Elwood Blues1 wrote: blueblood95 wrote: please not Stevens!!!!!!:shock: No, he is gutless. The last person I want representing the blues. In our current circumstances it has to be Whitnall. Not stevens Stevens doesnt have a issue with courage IMO and gutless isnt a word I would associate with anyone who steps onto the park to play...you need a certain amount of courage to be out there to begin with... No doubt with Whitnalls present form he has claims to the job but I think he has to prove himself over a longer period than just 10 games or so and he has age against him compared to Stevens.... Stevens does not have the attributes of a leader. he is not selfless, couragous or inspiring. He is a smart footballer with good skills and handy to have on the list. whitnall is a franchise player who has been a living emblem of the club for nearly the past decade. he is playing great footy and I believe that he palys better when his confidence is up. THUS A perfect choice for captain. P.S. He could easily play for another 5 years and by that time the Murphy's and the Kennedy's will be prepared to lead. Living emblem of the club?....maybe we need a new emblem considering how well we have been going....the living emblem has spent a fair amount of time living at the crocky park not really inspiring young players until this year.....I would prefer to see some consistent effort over a longer period before I gave Lance the skippers job.... |
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