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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 12:17 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Uh-oh, I've seen this episode before :D


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 12:39 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 3248
Blue Vain wrote:
Don't assume Houston is being targeted specifically to play half back. He's played some excellent games in the midfield for Port. I've heard Hinkley say the line coaches fight over where he plays during the off season. At the moment he plays half back because he's elite there (dual AA) but also they have a top shelf midfield with JHF, Butters, Wines, Rozee, Drew etc. He's the one they can leave out and get great value from him elsewhere.

He finds the footy, tackles well but most importantly, he delivers the footy exceptionally well under pressure. Imagine Cripps getting the footy out to him and the delivery going inside 50. The forwards would be licking their lips. Class around the footy is a huge deficiency for us.

I'm not saying we should sell the farm for him but don't necessarily pigeon hole him as a back.


well, perhaps he is being targeted as a mid or player that can play multiple positions. always good to have.

however, as you say, we shouldn't being selling the farm

(for a guy that is 28 years of age).

ineresting, he didn't spend any time attending a centre bounce in 2024 on his way to being an AA HB.

https://aflratings.com.au/afl-centre-bounces/


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 12:44 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6326
No to Houston
No to Haynes
Why not pick kids and develop them pay unders and if their any good then you have space in the cap to pick a Houston if you have nobody to kick ball out of defence
What’s the point in picking Wilson as a kid then giving up the house for a guy playing in similar position who is 27
How @#$%&! dumb is Carlton
Oh why hasn’t Fantasia gone
Wouldn’t be because he and Voss are mates from the Port days
It seems to me the wheels are starting to come off


Last edited by keogh on Mon Sep 16, 2024 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 12:56 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6326
Houston been traded to any club highlights how the media and so called experts overrate players
He is a dual All Australian
Yeah
The All Australian team is based on which players are best in their positions
Houston plays in the easiest position
The HBF who rarely has an opponent
Finally opposition coaches are waking up and tagging these blokes
No way would I give up a first rounder for a HBF
We need leg speed and another big mother down back and some small forwards
Because of where he plays Houston is overrated
But he is a AA and a beautiful kick
So what he didn’t play midfield this year

I find it so hard to comprehend how every year like clockwork some people get sucked into all the shit
Does Zac Williams ring a bell
A couple of cameos up forward in 3 years of footy with us
Was tried in guts but simply not up to it
The same thing applies to Saad
Plays in defence
That’s it
Very good player but overrated because he has never been tried in the guts


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:53 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2819
Braithy wrote:
bondiblue wrote:

I getcha

We have pick 11. Bets player may play in 2025
We are working on packaging 31 and later picks for something in the early 20's for a KPD

If we can have 2 great picks before Ben Campo that would be ideal.

We may offer F1 plus late picks and a player for a FWD Ruck or a KPD or Houston

I'm a 2 ruck fan for insurance in a Final. Pitto is not a 3rd forward, whereas TDK is.
If TDK plays No 1 ruck, as he should, then SOS becomes really important next year as a Fwd Ruck, and we can overlook Pitto.
If SOS hss lost a yard following ACL, then we will have the same issues with the 2 rucks next year.

ie We have greater priorities than HB for 2025 imo.

I don't think the current game plan suits Houston, but some of the styles we played this year do.
Vossy will decide if he can use Houston to help him change his preference for the contested game, and if Houston can change the game plan, he's worth what you think braithy



voss is the loudest at the club in his desire for houston, fwiw.


i think you're living in the past a bit, BB ... doc is miles off AA and probably closer to retirement. newman gets so much ball bcos the oppo sag off him and rather curtail gov and saad bcos they know newman won't hurt you. newman had the most turnovers by foot in our back six.

i have doubts boyd will make it.
williams is the worst defender we've had back there since matthew watson.
cowan will be excellent - a peter dean type that you need. Him and weiters are untouchable.
saad lost his man in multiple games, multiple times at stoppage and conceded goals. he's definitely lost a step of speed too. if he's in decline, we're in a world of trouble unless we get another half back who can damage the opposition.

hell, there's logic there that says saad and houston could run riot together. what a nightmare to match up on, that woul be, huh?

a season is a long time in footy. and, you can't deny stats. worst in the league for D50 to F50 movement. 3rd most points allowed, worst defensive stoppage team from D50 in the league. 4th most turnovers exiting our D50.


i'm on the record of going all out in '25 for a flag.

if we're willing to give up harry and cerra, there's no reason why we can't bring in:

Houston
a gun mid with run and overlap
an a-grade small forward
keep #11 and draft someone like joe berry (a connor rozee comaprison)
campo twins.

effectively we're freeing up more cap than we're spending under that scenario, we're still getting draft picks, but we are losing players that people are attached to.

i'm only attached to the club and to winning ... so if we get houston or not, i don't care. if we trade cerra or H, i really don't give a rats.

just do something, don't reload with the same list (like last summer) and think better health is our only deficiency and alls we need is a few draft picks in the bank for the future.

i want to go on a run in september '25 and bring home a flag, and we're going to have to spice the list up for that, imo. and maybe replace hansen with a quality assistant too :lol:


Voss being the loudest sets off alarm bells for me. Guessing Houston was at Port with Voss? Was he an advocate? Is Voss wanting him for his ability or his loyalty….

2 firsts (if that’s the case) has Crazy Vossy written all over it. I’m all for getting the best players in, but as others have said if we don’t change how we play we’re just shuffling deck chairs


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:55 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
Newman is not a shit kick.

There's good reason why he's our preferred kick from defense.

Always was and is a great kick.

Houston doesn't hit his targets every single kick. no one does.
Because Newman is a Carlton player he is judged more harshly imo.

Pretty hard hitting statues when then the game plan is obvious enough for the opposition to jump into the statue.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:55 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 6934
do you watch much footy, keogh? bcos there's no way houston is overrated, and he has plenty of leg speed - would make a good winger. but at half back, he quarterbacks the team, gets on his bike and runs and delivers it into F50 the best in the league.

anddddddd ... picking kids and developing them? isn't that quite literally what we've been doing for the last 25 years?


this current list is so close to another prelim and beyond, i can smell it. we need to get after it this summer and bring home number 17. we have deadwood in the club, lets sift thru it, clear some out, upgrade some important areas and make 2025 something to remember.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:57 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 6934
london blue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Don't assume Houston is being targeted specifically to play half back. He's played some excellent games in the midfield for Port. I've heard Hinkley say the line coaches fight over where he plays during the off season. At the moment he plays half back because he's elite there (dual AA) but also they have a top shelf midfield with JHF, Butters, Wines, Rozee, Drew etc. He's the one they can leave out and get great value from him elsewhere.

He finds the footy, tackles well but most importantly, he delivers the footy exceptionally well under pressure. Imagine Cripps getting the footy out to him and the delivery going inside 50. The forwards would be licking their lips. Class around the footy is a huge deficiency for us.

I'm not saying we should sell the farm for him but don't necessarily pigeon hole him as a back.


well, perhaps he is being targeted as a mid or player that can play multiple positions. always good to have.

however, as you say, we shouldn't being selling the farm

(for a guy that is 28 years of age).

ineresting, he didn't spend any time attending a centre bounce in 2024 on his way to being an AA HB.

https://aflratings.com.au/afl-centre-bounces/


27. he's 27. same age as weiters, charlie and harry.

he played plenty of wing at times for port. that 60m goal on the siren to win them that game (was it against the pies?), he was on the wing.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:59 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 6934
bondiblue wrote:
Newman is not a shit kick.

There's good reason why he's our preferred kick from defense.

Always was and is a great kick.

Houston doesn't hit his targets every single kick. no one does.
Because Newman is a Carlton player he is judged more harshly imo.

Pretty hard hitting statues when then the game plan is obvious enough for the opposition to jump into the statue.



what makes you think newman's a good kick? he led us in turnovers coming out of D50.

newman is our preferred kick bcos in a team of shit kicks, he's the least shit.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:59 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 3248
Braithy wrote:
london blue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Don't assume Houston is being targeted specifically to play half back. He's played some excellent games in the midfield for Port. I've heard Hinkley say the line coaches fight over where he plays during the off season. At the moment he plays half back because he's elite there (dual AA) but also they have a top shelf midfield with JHF, Butters, Wines, Rozee, Drew etc. He's the one they can leave out and get great value from him elsewhere.

He finds the footy, tackles well but most importantly, he delivers the footy exceptionally well under pressure. Imagine Cripps getting the footy out to him and the delivery going inside 50. The forwards would be licking their lips. Class around the footy is a huge deficiency for us.

I'm not saying we should sell the farm for him but don't necessarily pigeon hole him as a back.


well, perhaps he is being targeted as a mid or player that can play multiple positions. always good to have.

however, as you say, we shouldn't being selling the farm

(for a guy that is 28 years of age).

ineresting, he didn't spend any time attending a centre bounce in 2024 on his way to being an AA HB.

https://aflratings.com.au/afl-centre-bounces/


27. he's 27. same age as weiters, charlie and harry.

he played plenty of wing at times for port. that 60m goal on the siren to win them that game (was it against the pies?), he was on the wing.


I like him.....iits what we give up for him that matters....at reported levels its too much


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:59 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
There's also good reason why in preseason Best 23 teams Boyd was usually picked by posters.

Just go back to his game in the Prelim. Blitzed. Broke lines and delivered beautiful 50 metre passes. In fact the only player on that day to do it. Why? Because he can.

Beautiful kick of a ball.

I know he had a bad game against the Dogs but doesn't mean he hasn't got a great peg on him.
He's judged harshly by some Carlton fans.

What was Boyd's position?
I know the obvious answer is BP, but was his role the same every game? No.

How dont settle into their positions because Vossy is constantly trying to find the best mix.
FFS he's got to have a good idea by now. Injury is an excuse, but not all the time.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 2:02 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 6934
london blue wrote:
Braithy wrote:
london blue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Don't assume Houston is being targeted specifically to play half back. He's played some excellent games in the midfield for Port. I've heard Hinkley say the line coaches fight over where he plays during the off season. At the moment he plays half back because he's elite there (dual AA) but also they have a top shelf midfield with JHF, Butters, Wines, Rozee, Drew etc. He's the one they can leave out and get great value from him elsewhere.

He finds the footy, tackles well but most importantly, he delivers the footy exceptionally well under pressure. Imagine Cripps getting the footy out to him and the delivery going inside 50. The forwards would be licking their lips. Class around the footy is a huge deficiency for us.

I'm not saying we should sell the farm for him but don't necessarily pigeon hole him as a back.


well, perhaps he is being targeted as a mid or player that can play multiple positions. always good to have.

however, as you say, we shouldn't being selling the farm

(for a guy that is 28 years of age).

ineresting, he didn't spend any time attending a centre bounce in 2024 on his way to being an AA HB.

https://aflratings.com.au/afl-centre-bounces/


27. he's 27. same age as weiters, charlie and harry.

he played plenty of wing at times for port. that 60m goal on the siren to win them that game (was it against the pies?), he was on the wing.


I like him.....iits what we give up for him that matters....at reported levels its too much


yeah, i'm the same. he's a gun, but depending on the asking price, will he be our gun.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 2:04 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
Braithy wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Newman is not a shit kick.

There's good reason why he's our preferred kick from defense.

Always was and is a great kick.

Houston doesn't hit his targets every single kick. no one does.
Because Newman is a Carlton player he is judged more harshly imo.

Pretty hard hitting statues when then the game plan is obvious enough for the opposition to jump into the statue.



what makes you think newman's a good kick? he led us in turnovers coming out of D50.

newman is our preferred kick bcos in a team of shit kicks, he's the least shit.


Lets stick to the backline here. Who are the shit kicks in the back line?

You think he's a shit kick, I don't.

I'm not going to argue the point, and I didn't say good kick, I said "Great" kick.

What percentage of his kicks were turnovers?
What percentage was Houston's kicks turnovers?

I hope youre not denigrating a Carlton player again to make your point stronger braithy, coz it looks that way.
I seen this before. I prefer to BS you and say I agree than give you an opportunity to nit pick.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 2:04 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14938
Dodo27 wrote:
Owies is the heart & Soul of our Club. No other player celebrates a Goal the way he does- with heart & Passion.

He is also our best small forward by far. He is an elite kick for goal and was very consistent the last few years.

How on earth does the club treat him this way? He Deserves better!

I don't get it either.
Unless there is something going on that we are not aware of this makes no sense.
Why would they re-sign Corey Durdin mid season and not Owies?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 2:05 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
Braithy wrote:
london blue wrote:
Braithy wrote:
london blue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Don't assume Houston is being targeted specifically to play half back. He's played some excellent games in the midfield for Port. I've heard Hinkley say the line coaches fight over where he plays during the off season. At the moment he plays half back because he's elite there (dual AA) but also they have a top shelf midfield with JHF, Butters, Wines, Rozee, Drew etc. He's the one they can leave out and get great value from him elsewhere.

He finds the footy, tackles well but most importantly, he delivers the footy exceptionally well under pressure. Imagine Cripps getting the footy out to him and the delivery going inside 50. The forwards would be licking their lips. Class around the footy is a huge deficiency for us.

I'm not saying we should sell the farm for him but don't necessarily pigeon hole him as a back.


well, perhaps he is being targeted as a mid or player that can play multiple positions. always good to have.

however, as you say, we shouldn't being selling the farm

(for a guy that is 28 years of age).

ineresting, he didn't spend any time attending a centre bounce in 2024 on his way to being an AA HB.

https://aflratings.com.au/afl-centre-bounces/


27. he's 27. same age as weiters, charlie and harry.

he played plenty of wing at times for port. that 60m goal on the siren to win them that game (was it against the pies?), he was on the wing.


I like him.....iits what we give up for him that matters....at reported levels its too much


yeah, i'm the same. he's a gun, but depending on the asking price, will he be our gun.


See I agree with this too.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 2:11 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 7275
bondiblue wrote:
Pretty hard hitting statues when then the game plan is obvious enough for the opposition to jump into the statue.

This is why I'm a hard no on Houston...

Fix the game plan otherwise we'll have another high priced recruit that bombs blindly from D50... and I don't have that much faith in our coaching group atm.

We have enough players to have a tilt at a flag if we can sort our shit out... but just in case we can't, I'd rather invest in kids before Tassie enters the draft.

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Last edited by Hornet on Mon Sep 16, 2024 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 2:12 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 6934
bondiblue wrote:
Braithy wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Newman is not a shit kick.

There's good reason why he's our preferred kick from defense.

Always was and is a great kick.

Houston doesn't hit his targets every single kick. no one does.
Because Newman is a Carlton player he is judged more harshly imo.

Pretty hard hitting statues when then the game plan is obvious enough for the opposition to jump into the statue.



what makes you think newman's a good kick? he led us in turnovers coming out of D50.

newman is our preferred kick bcos in a team of shit kicks, he's the least shit.


Lets stick to the backline here. Who are the shit kicks in the back line?

You think he's a shit kick, I don't.

I'm not going to argue the point, and I didn't say good kick, I said "Great" kick.

What percentage of his kicks were turnovers?
What percentage was Houston's kicks turnovers?

I hope youre not denigrating a Carlton player again to make your point stronger braithy, coz it looks that way.
I seen this before. I prefer to BS you and say I agree than give you an opportunity to nit pick.



buddy ... i don't make up the stats. we had the worst ball movement in the entire afl from D50 to F50. with the 4th most turnover. that is condemning to our ability to kick the football.

did you watch any games this year? i actually close my eyes when weiters, young, kemp and at times boyd and newman have the ball. saad is the only one i trust. mcgovern gets a pass. newman 50/50 and the rest are nothing short of calamitous.


Last edited by Braithy on Mon Sep 16, 2024 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 2:13 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:17 pm
Posts: 374
port HBF on weekend was 18 yr kid,burgyone ,sinn all youngsters ,we don't need to sell farm for Houston ,don t want Haynes either i say keep draft picks and get best quickest YOUNGSTERS we can , If Austin does a sos and just hands over a first for Houston well he is weak , with all his experience he should be finding those gems .


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 2:20 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
kezza wrote:
Dodo27 wrote:
Owies is the heart & Soul of our Club. No other player celebrates a Goal the way he does- with heart & Passion.

He is also our best small forward by far. He is an elite kick for goal and was very consistent the last few years.

How on earth does the club treat him this way? He Deserves better!

I don't get it either.
Unless there is something going on that we are not aware of this makes no sense.
Why would they re-sign Corey Durdin mid season and not Owies?


We had no small forward a few years back, because SOS focussed on spine then a plethora of mids. He did draft a Cat B player Owies but he was developing in the VFL, then in 2 consecutive drafts we took a small forward with our first pick: Durdin and Motlop.
They needed support and development so we brought in Betts.

After Betts retired, we had 3 novices who showed good signs in the preseason, but haven't delivered. Most peeps imo hoped they would be the answer, and still live in hope they are the next big thing. Owies came in and kicked a few goals last year but was dropped for the Prelim. He's also kicked 33 goals this year and he hasn't been offered a contract. He's only 27yo this year.

They needed a wise head around them to show them the way and we recruited Fantasia.

Failed small after failed small (I say that because I am not convinced in any, other than Durdin a bit and Owies isnt a front and centre small with pace) and we select Williams to be our small forward.

Now we have a problem making space for draft picks and Boyd's upgrade. We might have 2 picks before Ben Camporeale and Lucas Camporeale plus Boyd, that's 5 spots we need. I reckon it might be 6 spots.

We have Motlop Durdin Owies Fantasia and Willams for the 2 small forward positions.

Marchbank, Martin and Cuningham make 3 spots available. Owies and Carroll are out of contract. Pretty obvious why its Owies who may go before the other small forwards, plus Williams is contracted for another 2 years and Fantasia has one more year. Maybe Berry is the target.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 2:24 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 6934
williams for another 2 years is diabolical.

i'd trade him for a can of tomato soup at this point. and i hate tomato soup (unless it's doused in tobassco sauce and with toasted sourdough).


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