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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:01 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Traveller86 wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
So is it time for Vossy to introduce AFL style Bazball

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What nationality is Michael Vossy, when he phones home on the OTC?
I wish it wasn't serious........



Mum

Go Blues

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:34 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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bluegirl72 wrote:
Yep. Sums it up.
Also
You notice Pies put up an 'all in' sign when a few points up? Voss would put up a 'close it down' sign and we would lose.
Is someone going to have a talk with him do you think? Or do we just waste another season?


Wasn't that Essendon*? And they did lose.... :smile:

All for questioning Voss but that's not the right example


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 6:45 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2742
Genuine questions:
What did the Pies do differently in the last quarter to go from 28 points down to win by 2 goals?
Can we learn from it?
And, if it works as well as it did, why were they not doing it the whole game?

Similar questions, in reverse, for Essendon*?
Thoughts?

PS. I read that McRae specifically mentioned selection integrity in his press conference….


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 7:16 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Nick wrote:
bluegirl72 wrote:
Yep. Sums it up.
Also
You notice Pies put up an 'all in' sign when a few points up? Voss would put up a 'close it down' sign and we would lose.
Is someone going to have a talk with him do you think? Or do we just waste another season?


Wasn't that Essendon**? And they did lose.... :smile:

All for questioning Voss but that's not the right example

Was it?
Ok.
I think my point still stands.
Pies plan and style wins games.
They only stopped in the last minute or so
. They play joyful energetic footy.
I'd take McCrae over Voss any day.
I think he's smarter and has engaged his players. They are all in.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 10:26 am 
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John Nicholls

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Lets not forget they get 5goals down frequently and yesterday were scoring a goal once every 7 fwd 50 entry up until 3qtr time. Play one good quarter alot but it usually happens to be the last. When we played one good quarter last year and still won we got on our teams case and in the end aadjusted our gameplan and probably overcorrected.
I like the idea of going all out attack for a few weeks even if it costs us 8pts. Then roll it back and hopefully find some middle ground at a time when we get players returning.

Our real major problem is leg speed. They Pies have loads of running power. Yesterday their running power , long bombs and chaos entries in the last helped them overcome the Bombers.. and every touch the Diacos two get is worth about 3 of a Carlton touch.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 10:27 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2742
bluegirl72 wrote:
Nick wrote:
bluegirl72 wrote:
Yep. Sums it up.
Also
You notice Pies put up an 'all in' sign when a few points up? Voss would put up a 'close it down' sign and we would lose.
Is someone going to have a talk with him do you think? Or do we just waste another season?


Wasn't that Essendon***? And they did lose.... :smile:

All for questioning Voss but that's not the right example

Was it?
Ok.
I think my point still stands.
Pies plan and style wins games.
They only stopped in the last minute or so
. They play joyful energetic footy.
I'd take McCrae over Voss any day.
I think he's smarter and has engaged his players. They are all in.


I mostly agree.
Except, as per my question above, it clearly wasn’t working for three quarters. And they were behind against the Saints as well, like we were. If we did that, we would be bagging Voss for having a shit game plan and just relying on a champ or two to save us in the last gasp.
So, what did the Pies do to turn it around? And why didn’t they do that from the start?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 10:47 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 6363
club29 wrote:
Lets not forget they get 5goals down frequently and yesterday were scoring a goal once every 7 fwd 50 entry up until 3qtr time. Play one good quarter alot but it usually happens to be the last. When we played one good quarter last year and still won we got on our teams case and in the end aadjusted our gameplan and probably overcorrected.
I like the idea of going all out attack for a few weeks even if it costs us 8pts. Then roll it back and hopefully find some middle ground at a time when we get players returning.

Our real major problem is leg speed. They Pies have loads of running power. Yesterday their running power , long bombs and chaos entries in the last helped them overcome the Bombers.. and every touch the Diacos two get is worth about 3 of a Carlton touch.

100%
And another two of those players, Steele and Pendles are mature, smart, damaging players.
A refreshing perspective on the situation amongst the pitch forks herd mentality on here lately.
They have a good spread of talent on their list as well as depth.

I also find it amusing not less than 2 years ago the same herd were saying Teague's game plan was too complex and the players couldn't cope.
Voss comes in and simplifies it and we start winning, now it is not creative, daring, tactical or dare I say "complex" enough.
Yet, McFly's plan works because it is simple...........I'm confused.

The issue is cattle to facilitate the plan and structure as it is being developed.
Do we need to have a more controlled playing style to be able to control the tempo and ultimately make and win finals? 100%
Do we have the players able to effectively do the above plan? With an injury free list (or non injured key personnel to implement) yes.
So if the players needed to play the new plan that has been worked on all summer are not available, then how can we effectively do that?
As I said in the after game thread, the only thing we could've tried was an undermanned F50 with a defensive wall to keep the ball locked in as long as we could.
Or go back to the rush forward at all costs like last season and risk getting smashed on the rebound (which for me was too risky given the personnel shortage).


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 10:52 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Very interesting comments from Jordan Lewis on 360 tonight. Basically he said Clarkson more than once, got to round 5 & just said to them, everything we practiced over the summer, it's not working & we're not doing it any more.



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 10:57 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Blindfolds off…?


kindest regards tommi

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 7:04 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Do it!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:01 am 
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John Nicholls
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CK95 wrote:
Very interesting comments from Jordan Lewis on 360 tonight. Basically he said Clarkson more than once, got to round 5 & just said to them, everything we practiced over the summer, it's not working & we're not doing it any more.



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With Lewis, Roughead, Franklin, Hodge, Rioli, Smith, Breust, Gunston, Poppy, Mitchell, Burgoyne and others - sure, go nuts.

Will our mob cope with a mid-season adjustment or flail about like beached whales?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:19 am 
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Geoff Southby
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robertbb wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Very interesting comments from Jordan Lewis on 360 tonight. Basically he said Clarkson more than once, got to round 5 & just said to them, everything we practiced over the summer, it's not working & we're not doing it any more.



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With Lewis, Roughead, Franklin, Hodge, Rioli, Smith, Breust, Gunston, Poppy, Mitchell, Burgoyne and others - sure, go nuts.

Will our mob cope with a mid-season adjustment or flail about like beached whales?

Sounds like our mob would be telling the coaches what they want to do and when it suits them to do it

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:52 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
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CK95 wrote:
Very interesting comments from Jordan Lewis on 360 tonight. Basically he said Clarkson more than once, got to round 5 & just said to them, everything we practiced over the summer, it's not working & we're not doing it any more.



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I think I missed this comment.
Was it when he was talking about Freo performance so far this season?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:56 am 
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Bruce Doull
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It was yep. But you could apply it to us because we've got a bit in common with them at the moment

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:59 am 
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Harry Vallence

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I just don't undertsand where that run and dash from last year went?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:02 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
Sidefx wrote:
club29 wrote:
Lets not forget they get 5goals down frequently and yesterday were scoring a goal once every 7 fwd 50 entry up until 3qtr time. Play one good quarter alot but it usually happens to be the last. When we played one good quarter last year and still won we got on our teams case and in the end aadjusted our gameplan and probably overcorrected.
I like the idea of going all out attack for a few weeks even if it costs us 8pts. Then roll it back and hopefully find some middle ground at a time when we get players returning.

Our real major problem is leg speed. They Pies have loads of running power. Yesterday their running power , long bombs and chaos entries in the last helped them overcome the Bombers.. and every touch the Diacos two get is worth about 3 of a Carlton touch.

100%
And another two of those players, Steele and Pendles are mature, smart, damaging players.
A refreshing perspective on the situation amongst the pitch forks herd mentality on here lately.
They have a good spread of talent on their list as well as depth.

I also find it amusing not less than 2 years ago the same herd were saying Teague's game plan was too complex and the players couldn't cope.
Voss comes in and simplifies it and we start winning, now it is not creative, daring, tactical or dare I say "complex" enough.
Yet, McFly's plan works because it is simple...........I'm confused.

The issue is cattle to facilitate the plan and structure as it is being developed.
Do we need to have a more controlled playing style to be able to control the tempo and ultimately make and win finals? 100%
Do we have the players able to effectively do the above plan? With an injury free list (or non injured key personnel to implement) yes.
So if the players needed to play the new plan that has been worked on all summer are not available, then how can we effectively do that?
As I said in the after game thread, the only thing we could've tried was an undermanned F50 with a defensive wall to keep the ball locked in as long as we could.
Or go back to the rush forward at all costs like last season and risk getting smashed on the rebound (which for me was too risky given the personnel shortage).


:clap:

I watched the intra club game in the preseason, and the dare and the speed we moved the ball from the backline was the best I have seen in decades. That was when Williams and Saady were the HB's. Doc wasnt needed. It was truly a revelation. Those 2 players alone showed their wares in round 22 and 23 last year, and we all know we didn't lose those games in defence. My heart sank when Williams did his ACL.

If our 3 Big Forwards would kick straight (ie take a professional approach to kicking at goal with the same process every time) we would have won those 2 games vs Coll and Melb, and beaten Saints on the weekend.

Docherty Saad and Williams make a HUGE difference to our running game, even without Boyd.

Remember Martin, Cottrell and Marchbank in round 22 & 23? They provided plenty of speed and link from defence to forwardline too. Pity we have put our faith in too many injury prone players. Hey, they may come good in the next month. They've been out for so long, they must have been rebuilt...bionics?

I think we still have time to get our best players back to make an impact and make finals.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:08 am 
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Craig Bradley
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FarmerBlue wrote:
I just don't undertsand where that run and dash from last year went?

You mean from the team that didn’t make the finals and had runs of goals kicked against it regularly?

All summer I had trouble reconciling the popular expectations of Carlton in 2023 with the Carlton I saw in 2022.

I’ve never had any misconceptions about us being anything other than - unfortunately - a work in progress.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:11 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: Half back flank
robertbb wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Very interesting comments from Jordan Lewis on 360 tonight. Basically he said Clarkson more than once, got to round 5 & just said to them, everything we practiced over the summer, it's not working & we're not doing it any more.



Sent from my Nokia G21 using Tapatalk


With Lewis, Roughead, Franklin, Hodge, Rioli, Smith, Breust, Gunston, Poppy, Mitchell, Burgoyne and others - sure, go nuts.

Will our mob cope with a mid-season adjustment or flail about like beached whales?



Get Franklin!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:15 am 
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Bruce Doull
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:24 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 3248
aboynamedsue wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
I just don't undertsand where that run and dash from last year went?

You mean from the team that didn’t make the finals and had runs of goals kicked against it regularly?

All summer I had trouble reconciling the popular expectations of Carlton in 2023 with the Carlton I saw in 2022.

I’ve never had any misconceptions about us being anything other than - unfortunately - a work in progress.


Yes true, a work in progress. Which in some respects I struggle with given we are focussed on improvement within - to date I haven’t witnessed any improvement.


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