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List Mgmt 2018 - Rowe/Kerridge/Graham/Lamb delisted 18/10/18

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jamespul65

Post subject: Re: List Management 2018

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:37 pm

Bert Deacon

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 546

i hope shiel stays at gws ,reason be is that it smells like the chris judd deal all over again. D.shiel plays about 5 yrs /6 and the first rd plays 10yrs + .

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bluebo baggers

Post subject: Re: List Management 2018

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:46 pm

Robert Walls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:54 pm
Posts: 3477
Location: looking for a good bloke to have a beer with

jamespul65 wrote:

i hope shiel stays at gws ,reason be is that it smells like the chris judd deal all over again. D.shiel plays about 5 yrs /6 and the first rd plays 10yrs + .

In terms of a trade this year I agree. I'd take him at the end of next year as a FA though.

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bmaurizio

Post subject: Re: List Management 2018

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:55 pm

Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:49 am
Posts: 1621

bluebo baggers wrote:

jamespul65 wrote:

i hope shiel stays at gws ,reason be is that it smells like the chris judd deal all over again. D.shiel plays about 5 yrs /6 and the first rd plays 10yrs + .

In terms of a trade this year I agree. I'd take him at the end of next year as a FA though.

Agree no need to be hasty, but Silvagni must chase hard any good quality midfield talent there’s little choice. we need the talent no matter how he conjures it up.

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The Normal One

Post subject: List Management 2018

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:13 pm

formerly King Kenny

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:35 pm
Posts: 20076

jamespul65 wrote:

i hope shiel stays at gws ,reason be is that it smells like the chris judd deal all over again. D.shiel plays about 5 yrs /6 and the first rd plays 10yrs + .

So what’s different next year?

He would offer our team more next season in terms of development than being a player in 2020.

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bluebo baggers

Post subject: Re: List Management 2018

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:45 pm

Robert Walls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:54 pm
Posts: 3477
Location: looking for a good bloke to have a beer with

The Normal One wrote:

jamespul65 wrote:

i hope shiel stays at gws ,reason be is that it smells like the chris judd deal all over again. D.shiel plays about 5 yrs /6 and the first rd plays 10yrs + .

So what’s different next year?

He would offer our team more next season in terms of development than being a player in 2020.

Next year he is a free agent - you don't lose the draft pick(s) or players to get him.

In terms of what he offers you're right he'd be better next year but not better "value"

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The Normal One

Post subject: List Management 2018

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:14 pm

formerly King Kenny

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:35 pm
Posts: 20076

bluebo baggers wrote:

The Normal One wrote:

jamespul65 wrote:

i hope shiel stays at gws ,reason be is that it smells like the chris judd deal all over again. D.shiel plays about 5 yrs /6 and the first rd plays 10yrs + .

So what’s different next year?

He would offer our team more next season in terms of development than being a player in 2020.

Next year he is a free agent - you don't lose the draft pick(s) or players to get him.

In terms of what he offers you're right he'd be better next year but not better "value"

Depends on the trade. I’d love Walsh, have finally determined he is the best of the bunch for us. Trade 1st pick next year for Shiel and swap some later picks though, I’d would do it.

Right now we need AFL bodies. Shiel is A grade talent you pay for. GWS could still force a trade next year remember.

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bluebo baggers

Post subject: Re: List Management 2018

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:42 pm

Robert Walls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:54 pm
Posts: 3477
Location: looking for a good bloke to have a beer with

I think either way works - I'd also take Walsh pick 1.

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billc3

Post subject: List Management 2018

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:56 pm

Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:41 pm
Posts: 4623

Agree... As good as Lukosius looks, Walsh looks the goods :lol:

Go you good things

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BigKev

Post subject: Re: List Management 2018

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:26 pm

Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:52 pm
Posts: 2289
Location: Geelong

tap in 79 wrote:

AIRCAV wrote:

Thanks Blueboy74, I stand corrected.

Your basic point is still correct.

Silvagni recently proposed that top 8 clubs shouldn’t be able to recruit free agents from bottom clubs. This suggestion has merit, and whether it is free agent or general trading there should be a proper analysis of how top clubs don’t really pay market rates for picking the eyes out of bottom clubs.

Let’s look at Hawthorn’s 2015 premiership team. How many of their trades came from bottom clubs which didn’t have real power in negotiations? How many recruited from top 8 clubs?

Big boy Ben McEvoy - came from 16th place St Kilda in 2013

Hale - came from 9th placed North in 2010

Brian Lake / this is the real doozy. In my opinion, this bloke was the best defender of his generation. Better than the Geelong bloke.Came from the 15th placed Bulldogs at end of 2012 effectively for pick 27.hahahaha. Hilarious

James Frawley-came from 17th placed Melbourne end of 2014

Gibson requested trade to Hawthorn end of 2009 after Nth came 13th

Burgoyne vice captain at Port. Walked out of 10th placed Port end of 2009.

Gunston won best young player award walked out of 14th placed Adelaide end of 2011

Seeing a pattern?

The point stands- drafting, trading, free agency perpetuates inequalities. This is a big reason why Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney never have to “rebuild”. Did Hawthorn pay “market rates” for any of these players?

Reform the system... that is unless these 3 clubs are supposed to make finals every year?

To be fair to Hawthorn, (not that I really care about this but ...), a few of those players played a lot better for them than they were playing for their original clubs. The key question for me is why and then what do we need to do to make this happen for us too.

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tap in 79

Post subject: Re: List Management 2018

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:23 am

Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:58 am
Posts: 2129

Brisbane went from 8th to last (16th) to 3rd on the ladder between 1997-1999.

I find that interesting. I know the AFL assisted in getting Leigh Matthews up there & bad injuries 1998 but that aside the key point was that in those days it was possible to go from last to 3rd in one year. When was the last time a club went from 16th to 3rd?

These days if you are in the cellar you stay there or thereabouts for years on end....

To answer your question Big Kev (as above post) I guess the only way to crawl out of the basement under the present system is to get every single decision on recruiting, player welfare and coaching right... but even then it would take 3 plus years to even be competitive.

Control what you can control eg are the coaches at Carlton really that good? Player welfare? Psychologists/motivation? Hire the best. Campaign AFL to give Carlton a better financial dividend. That’s a start.

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BigBlueWave

Post subject: Re: List Management 2018

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:32 am

formerly BlueRob

Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:45 pm
Posts: 3072

billc3 wrote:

Agree... As good as Lukosius looks, Walsh looks the goods :lol:

Go you good things

Lukosius doesn't look that good. He is skilled ... but not as much as the some of the others. He will take a few years to reach his potential as do all talls.

Give me the most skilled player in the draft ... Isaac Rankine. Walsh is a step down but still better than Lukosius.

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frank dardew

Post subject: Re: List Management 2018

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:01 pm

Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640

Richmond went from 13 th to Premiers in a season - Collingwood 13 th to potential top 4 finish this year and maybe top 2 it does happen

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Navy Blue Horse

Post subject: Re: List Management 2018

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:24 pm

Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:39 pm
Posts: 15848

Shiel 26 in March next year. A couple of years too old for my liking, given where we're at. I know we need older heads, but there'll be cheaper older heads out there. Not keen to sell the farm (aka pick 1) for a 26yo.

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tap in 79

Post subject: Re: List Management 2018

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:43 pm

Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:58 am
Posts: 2129

frank dardew wrote:

Richmond went from 13 th to Premiers in a season - Collingwood 13 th to potential top 4 finish this year and maybe top 2 it does happen

Well there you go, just need to follow the template of Tigers. At least there is a template to sell hope on.

Tigers:
Win 15 games in a season (2015) drop down the ladder the following year and get absolutely pole-axed by the Swans in your last game of that season, have a stern review, recruit 3 ready made players that actually want to come to your club that aren’t discard quality, have a good coach, hire better assistant coaches, have a good spine with players of the caliber of Riewoldt, Rance, Cotchin etc and you can make a dramatic climb up the ladder.

It isn’t without hope for the Blues. Just a couple of things to get right. A template is there. Mighty Tiges. Apparently rRobert Walls was saying even his grand kids have switched to the Tigers. The grand kids of a Tiger annihilator. 72. They are linked by blood and generations of support wiped out.

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Rexy

Post subject: Re: List Management 2018

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:29 pm

Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:46 am
Posts: 28227

Some unsolicited advice to Carlton on trading pick 1, as guided by Footballistics

http://www.hpnfooty.com/?p=30427

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muzza

Post subject: Re: List Management 2018

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:51 pm

Rod Ashman

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:41 pm
Posts: 2385

Rexy wrote:

Some unsolicited advice to Carlton on trading pick 1, as guided by Footballistics

http://www.hpnfooty.com/?p=30427

Really interesting...thanks.

Swaying towards 8 and 13 from Adelaide....that'd be nice!!

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Rexy

Post subject: Re: List Management 2018

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:05 pm

Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:46 am
Posts: 28227

muzza wrote:

Rexy wrote:

Some unsolicited advice to Carlton on trading pick 1, as guided by Footballistics

http://www.hpnfooty.com/?p=30427

Really interesting...thanks.

Swaying towards 8 and 13 from Adelaide....that'd be nice!!

Yep me too.

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bmaurizio

Post subject: Re: List Management 2018

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:05 pm

Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:49 am
Posts: 1621

muzza wrote:

Rexy wrote:

Some unsolicited advice to Carlton on trading pick 1, as guided by Footballistics

http://www.hpnfooty.com/?p=30427

Really interesting...thanks.

Swaying towards 8 and 13 from Adelaide....that'd be nice!!

No way an adequate compensation for Lukosius , the Crows would be tipping over to get deal done.

Add a reasonable player , matured body and we'd consider.

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bluebo baggers

Post subject: Re: List Management 2018

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:27 pm

Robert Walls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:54 pm
Posts: 3477
Location: looking for a good bloke to have a beer with

muzza wrote:

Rexy wrote:

Some unsolicited advice to Carlton on trading pick 1, as guided by Footballistics

http://www.hpnfooty.com/?p=30427

Really interesting...thanks.

Swaying towards 8 and 13 from Adelaide....that'd be nice!!

That was what I was thinking as well. Although in a deep draft 5 and 25 would probably be OK as well. 5 likely gets you one of Walsh, Smith, Rankine then take another mid at 25 or package 25 with Adelaide's 2nd and get back into the top 15

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BigKev

Post subject: Re: List Management 2018

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:41 pm

Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:52 pm
Posts: 2289
Location: Geelong

bluebo baggers wrote:

muzza wrote:

Rexy wrote:

Some unsolicited advice to Carlton on trading pick 1, as guided by Footballistics

http://www.hpnfooty.com/?p=30427

Really interesting...thanks.

Swaying towards 8 and 13 from Adelaide....that'd be nice!!

Very interesting reading. Although their chart rated this as being "fair", I can't see much value in swapping #1 for #2 & #62. The latter doesn't really have any value as far as I'm concerned. Not sure about #8 & #13 - I'd like to keep a pick in the top five. #5 & #25 is considered fair, so I reckon if we're offered #5 & better than #20 we should consider it.

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