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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 11:51 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:16 pm
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Location: Sydney
Glad someone else rates Fantasia but (unlike me) has the perspicacity to articulate why.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 12:08 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6326
Bye bye Jack Martin
Yes unlucky with injury although did Jack try his best to overcome all those soft tissue dramas

Just one more overrated player from another club who comes to Carlton and fails to deliver
In all seriousness good luck to him for banking a few million at the club’s expense
Will buy a mansion in Geraldton.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 12:13 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7475
Location: Bendigo
Crusader wrote:
We started the season with 37 primary and 7 rookie listed players. Boyd was extended early, so we finished at 38 + 6 for our 44, plus Lord as a mid season top up.

I believe we will go with 38 + 6 rookies next season

They don’t call it DraftGuru for nothing…

We started at 36 + 8, finished at 37 + 8 after Boyd upgrade & Lord MSD.

Currently sitting at 34 + 7 after Duffy added & 5x deletions (3 primary, 2 rookie).

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 1:40 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:49 am
Posts: 1621
Hopefully there’ll be a few more deletions and some trades we need to shed another 3 to 4 players.
Kennedy, Owies and perhaps Pittonet should attract some interested.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 2:07 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:17 pm
Posts: 374
if owies leaves do we get draft pick, and on sen said we are trying to deal with tigers , give them 2025 first rnd pick in exchange for one there first rnd this year. Then we hand over tigers first rnd if (deal happens)
to port for Houston (I would rather go to draft ). i would be very disappointed if recruit Haynes 33yr old and Houston 28 yrs old what have we learned from past


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 2:25 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
Crusader wrote:
Crusader wrote:
We started the season with 37 primary and 7 rookie listed players. Boyd was extended early, so we finished at 38 + 6 for our 44, plus Lord as a mid season top up.

I believe we will go with 38 + 6 rookies next season

They don’t call it DraftGuru for nothing…

We started at 36 + 8, finished at 37 + 8 after Boyd upgrade & Lord MSD.

Currently sitting at 34 + 7 after Duffy added & 5x deletions (3 primary, 2 rookie).


I don't know why you bundle Cat B with Rookie listed. I thought they were separate and the salary of Cat B players is not counted towards the SC. Akueii was a Cat B player, now delisted.

44 players without Cat B. Cat B are Monahan and Duffy now, and we can add another if we like. NGA is separate altogether. NGA players are not on our playing list.

So, if we have 34 and have 2 picks (11 & 31) plus taking 2 Campo boys gives us 38 on primary list (yes I know there's a chance Lucas may end up on the rookie list, but I doubt that is a sure bet).

Leaves us with 1 rookie selection having dropped Mirkov and kept Cincotta, Carroll, Loyd and Sam Durdin thus far, and no MSD selection.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 2:30 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
bmaurizio wrote:
Hopefully there’ll be a few more deletions and some trades we need to shed another 3 to 4 players.
Kennedy, Owies and perhaps Pittonet should attract some interested.


We better have a bonafide ruck targeted if Pitto is to be traded. If not, I doubt that trade will happen, but I welcome a great Fwd Ruck trade/draftee.

Mirkov (210cm) delisted as a Rookie
Silvagni (194cm), will be our Fwd-Ruck if he can get fit again.
O'Keefe (202cm) turns 20yo in 2025. Still a baby, as is 200cm Lemmey (200cm)

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 2:38 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
jpulice1969 wrote:
if owies leaves do we get draft pick, and on sen said we are trying to deal with tigers , give them 2025 first rnd pick in exchange for one there first rnd this year. Then we hand over tigers first rnd if (deal happens)
to port for Houston (I would rather go to draft ). i would be very disappointed if recruit Haynes 33yr old and Houston 28 yrs old what have we learned from past


Yeah we don't want to say we haven't learned from the past and miss out on a 19yo first round pick picked such as Dow, SPS, LOB, Stocker, Philp, Kemp, Menzel, Pickett, Setterfield, Boekhurst, Bootsma...

Its not an exact science. Haynes costs nothing. We have a spot available as a rookie, and Houston for a first round pick will deliver for next 3-4 years whilst our window is open, and our HB's like Saad Newman and Williams enter their 30's.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 3:09 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 6934
jpulice1969 wrote:
if owies leaves do we get draft pick, and on sen said we are trying to deal with tigers , give them 2025 first rnd pick in exchange for one there first rnd this year. Then we hand over tigers first rnd if (deal happens)
to port for Houston (I would rather go to draft ). i would be very disappointed if recruit Haynes 33yr old and Houston 28 yrs old what have we learned from past



don't be disappointed if we get houston, mate. he is a gun. he instantly becomes one of our best players, and will put us into contention. we're close to afl worst in D50 to F50 movement and scoring. this guy will make us top 5 in those stats.

is at the very top at port's stats in:

intercepts
tackle success
tackles made
disposal effiency (imo, the best kick in the afl)
pace

and he finds plenty of the ball despite how much the oppo teams put into him.


and haynes is to cover marchbank, nothing else. he'll be asked to play 10 games or less when the first option defenders (weiters, young, gov or kemp) are unavailable. he's a smart footy player and will have plenty of leadership back there and he's on the league minimum (150k), so he's costing us nothing.


Last edited by Braithy on Sat Sep 14, 2024 3:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 3:09 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:30 pm
Posts: 4580
Location: Blisstonia.
Seen on various forums Houston referred to as 28. He’s 27, the same draft as Weiters, Charlie and Harry.
Not saying he has the same value as that trio (he is though a 2 time All-Australian), but I’m sure if any of our guys were looking to leave, and we were discussing what we’d expect as compensation, we wouldn’t constantly be referencing their age to try and drive down the value as much as when someone is coming to us.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 3:23 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 6934
yeah exactly. we don't look at weiters as old, same with charles and H. truth is, houston fits our team profile to a T. i can't say enough, how rare it is for this kind of player to become available and if you get a chance to get them you gotta do it.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 3:29 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:11 pm
Posts: 589
Blue Vain wrote:
Drewgirl wrote:
Voss loves fantasia. This is where his favouritism sets in. I would pay fantasia out to get that list spot.


I don't see it as favouritism. Fantasia is our second highest rated player for goal assists per game. Whilst most of our mids put the ball 3m in front of the forwards bootlaces, Fantasia hits his targets. His foot skills are close to the best on our list. He also adopted the 3rd wingman/rotating half forward role which Cottrell was playing but too inconsistently. His body has been letting him down for years but he played 15 games for us this year. Probably more than most of our players.
The previous time he played more than 15 games was 2017. A year he kicked 39 goals.

If he understands his body better now and can consistently get on the park, he averages more kicks, handballs, marks, goals, goal assists, inside 50's and rebound 50's than Matt Owies per game over their careers. Plus he has more pace and is a better crumber. If his body is sound, I'd retain him without doubt.
Braithy wrote:
:clap:

fantasia does many team things too. running as decoy and opening up the space. and he is always talking and pointing and being a leader out there.
Hornet wrote:
There's something about Fantasia that makes most supporters not want him in the team...

But you can't deny that he outperforms most of the players we want to replace him with, and deserves his spot.



Martin, Cunners and Marchy... a sad tale of what could've/should've been... became list cloggers in the end.
GreatEx wrote:
Glad someone else rates Fantasia but (unlike me) has the perspicacity to articulate why.
Mickstar wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Drewgirl wrote:
Voss loves fantasia. This is where his favouritism sets in. I would pay fantasia out to get that list spot.


I don't see it as favouritism. Fantasia is our second highest rated player for goal assists per game. Whilst most of our mids put the ball 3m in front of the forwards bootlaces, Fantasia hits his targets. His foot skills are close to the best on our list. He also adopted the 3rd wingman/rotating half forward role which Cottrell was playing but too inconsistently. His body has been letting him down for years but he played 15 games for us this year. Probably more than most of our players.
The previous time he played more than 15 games was 2017. A year he kicked 39 goals.

If he understands his body better now and can consistently get on the park, he averages more kicks, handballs, marks, goals, goal assists, inside 50's and rebound 50's than Matt Owies per game over their careers. Plus he has more pace and is a better crumber. If his body is sound, I'd retain him without doubt.


And this is why " Vain " is such a highly respected poster . The bloke gets it " . Very good BV .
Add me to the Fantasia fan club.

I love how unselfish he is. He always does what's best for the team, not what makes him look good.

People lamenting about his lack of goals are missing the forest for the trees.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 3:30 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 9630
Location: Australia
Ok then, he can stay.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 3:38 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 6934
sinbagger wrote:
Ok then, he can stay.



and can we pretty please get Houston?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 3:42 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:11 pm
Posts: 589
sinbagger wrote:
Ok then, he can stay.
Braithy wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Ok then, he can stay.



and can we pretty please get Houston?
We promise we'll be good and do the dishes every night.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 4:09 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 6934
and i'll feed him and wash him! i promise!


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 6:24 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7475
Location: Bendigo
bondiblue wrote:
Crusader wrote:
Crusader wrote:
We started the season with 37 primary and 7 rookie listed players. Boyd was extended early, so we finished at 38 + 6 for our 44, plus Lord as a mid season top up.

I believe we will go with 38 + 6 rookies next season

They don’t call it DraftGuru for nothing…

We started at 36 + 8, finished at 37 + 8 after Boyd upgrade & Lord MSD.

Currently sitting at 34 + 7 after Duffy added & 5x deletions (3 primary, 2 rookie).


I don't know why you bundle Cat B with Rookie listed. I thought they were separate and the salary of Cat B players is not counted towards the SC. Akueii was a Cat B player, now delisted.

44 players without Cat B. Cat B are Monahan and Duffy now, and we can add another if we like. NGA is separate altogether. NGA players are not on our playing list.

So, if we have 34 and have 2 picks (11 & 31) plus taking 2 Campo boys gives us 38 on primary list (yes I know there's a chance Lucas may end up on the rookie list, but I doubt that is a sure bet).

Leaves us with 1 rookie selection having dropped Mirkov and kept Cincotta, Carroll, Loyd and Sam Durdin thus far, and no MSD selection.

44 players total.

Cat B salaries might count outside, but the list spot is still one of 44.

Draftees out of the NGA fill a primary or rookie spot, same as everyone else.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 6:29 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17954
Crusader wrote:
44 players total.

Cat B salaries might count outside, but the list spot is still one of 44.

Draftees out of the NGA fill a primary or rookie spot, same as everyone else.


Crusader wrote:
Currently sitting at 34 + 7 after Duffy added & 5x deletions (3 primary, 2 rookie).


So if it stays as it is, we have 3 selections remaining? And are we compelled to elevate any of the rookies?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 8:54 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7475
Location: Bendigo
Blue Vain wrote:
Crusader wrote:
44 players total.

Cat B salaries might count outside, but the list spot is still one of 44.

Draftees out of the NGA fill a primary or rookie spot, same as everyone else.


Crusader wrote:
Currently sitting at 34 + 7 after Duffy added & 5x deletions (3 primary, 2 rookie).


So if it stays as it is, we have 3 selections remaining? And are we compelled to elevate any of the rookies?

Yep, three additions. At least two have to be on the primary list, but the third can be either.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2024
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 9:09 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 7193
Braithy wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Ok then, he can stay.



and can we pretty please get Houston?


When Houston peals off the HBF and hits Orazio on the chest with that 70 metre pass you will be washing dishes for a month mate .

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