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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:39 am 
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Rod Ashman

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Moshe wrote:
What did Paul Roos say to the Hamburger shop guy?


"Make me one with everything"


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:42 am 
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Vale 1953-2020
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Boom boom.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:33 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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gerry atric wrote:
Getting back to the original point, grand final or failure is the equation next season. This is all short term desperation, he doesn't have 17 years grace as he took between getting 2 flags with a WCE list more loaded with talent than GWS will be, or than Brizzy were 01-03, to 2010 when he had the resources of the richest club in the land and almost blew it. Ratts , who wasn't a great (or expensive) coach got us to 3pts from a prelim. MM needs to do way better immediately

I am not sure why we had to make the decision so quickly given Mick is so keen he is not fronting till November sometime. We could have appointed him Cup Day and it would make no difference. It seems a confused and desperate appointment. We interviewed one candidate (or he interviewed us). Our Pres asserted after the GC game that there wd be a full review and no decision till seasons end and the completion of the full review, next day we sack the coach and MM is giving a blow by blow description over radio about how we were going in begging him to take the job.

MM may well be the messiah, but if not we are truly stuffed. The benefactors may lose interest the supporters will be disillusioned, our massive debt won't have gone away and we still won't be any nearer to a flag or any sort of culture that is likely to produce one.

The next three years may well be the most crucial in our history. When I went to my first Carlton game in the mid 1960s, we sat one behind Fitzroy on the premiership ladder. If we have got things wrong this time our third millenium may be very sad. It is a whole new competition and landscape and we have been the worst club to understand it. We don't appear to have any sort of business model that generates anything like the revenue to sustain the team, we appear to rely massively on the largesse of a few supporters which is not sustainable in the long term and turns the club into a play thing for a few rich folks who get gifted their seat on the board until such time as they lose interest. Our administrative culture appears not to have advanced beyond the 1980s. If MM doesn't deliver then we may well sink, with poor structure and business model, ageing supporter base eroded through lack of success and lack of connection with the club

What we actually need is not an ageing short term coach who may or may not deliver short term success, we need an intelligent, committed, visionary leader of the club at board level and then a coach who can deliver culture change across the football dept. That may take longer than three years, and yet all our thinking is instant success. You don't appoint a 60 year old for the long term and you don't have a 14 person committee if you want any sort of effective and consistent leadership from the board.

This is not a new problem, we have been too short term for 30 years, what did we build from the success of 1987? Nothing in 2 years we were out of the fiansl. 1995, same thing. We have blown our chance for a dynsaty through wasted drafting (how many stars have we got between pick 2 and 30 despite many chances) and poor appointments.

I am depressed by it all. Get a flag next year Mick and I'll overlook my intense dislike of you.



Agree, and as I don't see us getting near the flag next year, I would expect a fair bit of dissillusionment if that's truly what people expect. I doubt the majority expect a flag though. they'll put it down to the boys learning Mick's way. As long as we play a few finals games, and show tons of promise for 2014 flag, I reckon most will be chuffed.

It's the lack of change elsewhere that gets to me. John M put it really well, even though I disagreed about getting Mick, and not waiting.
I always hold out hope for evolution and positive change though. In our case, i agree we are probably one of the slowest to embrace change, but...maybe once we do, we'll rocket past other clubs, and go on to be more innovative and a truly great once again.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:35 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 5:15 pm
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JohnM wrote:
gerry atric wrote:
Getting back to the original point, grand final or failure is the equation next season. This is all short term desperation, he doesn't have 17 years grace as he took between getting 2 flags with a WCE list more loaded with talent than GWS will be, or than Brizzy were 01-03, to 2010 when he had the resources of the richest club in the land and almost blew it. Ratts , who wasn't a great (or expensive) coach got us to 3pts from a prelim. MM needs to do way better immediately

I am not sure why we had to make the decision so quickly given Mick is so keen he is not fronting till November sometime. We could have appointed him Cup Day and it would make no difference. It seems a confused and desperate appointment. We interviewed one candidate (or he interviewed us). Our Pres asserted after the GC game that there wd be a full review and no decision till seasons end and the completion of the full review, next day we sack the coach and MM is giving a blow by blow description over radio about how we were going in begging him to take the job.

MM may well be the messiah, but if not we are truly stuffed. The benefactors may lose interest the supporters will be disillusioned, our massive debt won't have gone away and we still won't be any nearer to a flag or any sort of culture that is likely to produce one.

The next three years may well be the most crucial in our history. When I went to my first Carlton game in the mid 1960s, we sat one behind Fitzroy on the premiership ladder. If we have got things wrong this time our third millenium may be very sad. It is a whole new competition and landscape and we have been the worst club to understand it. We don't appear to have any sort of business model that generates anything like the revenue to sustain the team, we appear to rely massively on the largesse of a few supporters which is not sustainable in the long term and turns the club into a play thing for a few rich folks who get gifted their seat on the board until such time as they lose interest. Our administrative culture appears not to have advanced beyond the 1980s. If MM doesn't deliver then we may well sink, with poor structure and business model, ageing supporter base eroded through lack of success and lack of connection with the club

What we actually need is not an ageing short term coach who may or may not deliver short term success, we need an intelligent, committed, visionary leader of the club at board level and then a coach who can deliver culture change across the football dept. That may take longer than three years, and yet all our thinking is instant success. You don't appoint a 60 year old for the long term and you don't have a 14 person committee if you want any sort of effective and consistent leadership from the board.

This is not a new problem, we have been too short term for 30 years, what did we build from the success of 1987? Nothing in 2 years we were out of the fiansl. 1995, same thing. We have blown our chance for a dynsaty through wasted drafting (how many stars have we got between pick 2 and 30 despite many chances) and poor appointments.

I am depressed by it all. Get a flag next year Mick and I'll overlook my intense dislike of you.


Good post.

This is why it's hard to just talk about the coach in isolation, and why many threads end up becoming the same discussion: our success depends on the whole club operating effectively, starting with intelligent and committed leadership from the very top.

I'm still amazed that people can be so blasé about kernahan (oh, let him stick around another year, he deserves it, etc). We're still the same ordinary bunch we were in 2012, except we've changed our coach.

I'm still happy we did that, it's just that I have zero confidence in those who made the decision. Ah well, I think I'm nearly reconciled to the fact that we're nothing like the Carlton I grew up with. we're ordinary in so many ways now.

Fact is, most of us are pleased malthouse is involved not because of his coaching prowess, but because we think he can fill a leadership vacuum across the whole club. This, of course, should be unnecessary. But while we have empty suits running the joint, it sadly is.

Absolutely... our problems are wider reaching than just who we pick as coach... the people entrusted with appointing the coach need scrutiny.

It's easy to say that we were 3pts away from a prelim but it's also naive... to not take in the whole season ie. failed to beat the top 4 all year. The people entrusted with Ratten's appointment gave him 5 years... one can say it was a long term plan... a plan that saw moderate on-field improvement when the signs were clear much earlier that the plan wasn't working.

Now we find ourselves with players like Judd, Scotland, Waite, Simpson etc nearing their twilight... and the Murphy, Gibbs era well and truly in their prime. The board have painted themselves in a corner because we wasted 5 years and our window is open NOW... otherwise we may be forced to start over, again.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:43 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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harker wrote:
bluegirl72 wrote:
harker wrote:
bluegirl72 wrote:
I think the squad in Syd runs well because of the environment that the players work in. at leasrt that's the widely written about perception. It's not the luck of personalities.
You have a point about MM, but it's hard to forget him calling Milney a rapist, then lying about it, then 'fessing up because he was caught on camera. I wouldn't compare his version of values with the way that Sydney is run. I can't help feeling that MM plays mre to favorites aka Daisy.
I see Roos as the new way forward, and Malty more the past. Not to say that MM won't be good, or to deny that he did mould together a motley crew. it's just that you asked why some really wanted Roos. I prefer the game style that Longmire has now, but the underpinning work that people laud right now, surely that's come from Roos?


Yeah well, Clarkson beats up on walls and swears with children in ear-shot.
The Scott brothers whinge like a pair of school girls.
Bomber Thompson takes the crown when it comes to lying with Ross Lyon a very close second.
Vossy is..........well..............sadly, Vossy.


Sheedy had lost the plot years ago, according to most.
Hirdy plays up behind his wife's back, etc etc.

Roos the new way forward? I don't know but I'm not into New Age.

End Game: We don't have Roos and should he venture into coaching again, it won't be with us. Done.



:lol: :lol: never say never with Roos, but by then, there may be others carrying a similar philosophy. I didn't mean being new to coaching or 'young' when I said old school V new. I meant carrying a more evolved holistic approach. Putting an emphasis on personal growth, family and connectedness at Sydney, has taken them a long way. Meditation does bring calm, attention to detail, health benefits, and great perspective. Should be mandatory for Alistair. :lol: if you've ever practiced it, then fallen off the wagon for awhile, you'll know the difference it can make.
I don't know if they still do yoga in a group way up there, but of course there are great benefits from that too, as it also involves breathing techniques that calm the mind. If that's what you mean by 'new age' anyway. :smile: I think those things are more timeless age.
So, new or younger coach might not value any of the things that Roosy brought to the club, just to clarify that point.
Of course, you don't need any of that stuff to win flags either. Malty no doubt has plenty of tricks in his bag. As you say, we move on.
Have we missed an opportunity for real cultural change at the club?
So far, it look like we might have. No decisive hand at the wheel to take a stance with Scotto.


Roos would have been a good get no doubt, but I get the impression that some here would have then pined for not getting Malthouse.

Malthouse said that being out of the game more than one year is too long as the game moves along too quickly and you won't catch up.
If this is half true, Roos would have been coming from a long way back after three years out of the game, come 2013.

Some of this Grand Final or bust talk, is just a show of petulance.
As we saw this year with our injury count, anything can happen.

Make no mistake that teams Adelaide, Sydney and North had better years than expected for not having the injury hit that Carlton, Collingwood and West Coast had.
The Grand Final had two teams with only one player each, missing from their best 22. Coincidence?


No argument from me on most of that.
Maybe we should bring Roos in as cultural advisor? I was wanting him more to drive the deep changes we need at our club. Others think MM might help with that anyway.
I reckon he'd do just fine as a coach even after 2 or 3 years out of the game. how would anyone really know though.
I've never been so worried about our club. I hope we have a fantastic season anyway.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:54 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Has anyone ever thought that Paul Roos might only be a very good coach if he was coaching his beloved Swines and a very average coach away from them?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:04 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am
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Juanita Jones wrote:
Has anyone ever thought that Paul Roos might only be a very good coach if he was coaching his beloved Swines and a very average coach away from them?


Bemoaned the fact that his club could never bottom out and get access to the early draft picks. Amazingly he was very silent about the 900k cost of living allowance which is used to recruit players.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:28 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Location: Comparing orange boners with Hirdy
Not allowed to bottom out...why pursue such a shit, uninterested market then

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:20 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Megaman wrote:
Not allowed to bottom out...why pursue such a shit, uninterested market then


TV rights


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:19 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Riley officially gone

http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/newsar ... fault.aspx


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:38 pm 
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formerly cj69

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Rexy wrote:


Good.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:42 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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4 assistants out , 1 in.
Hopefully our new midfield coach will be announced soon.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:00 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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ThePsychologist wrote:
Rexy wrote:


Good.


very

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:19 pm 
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I think this had to happen as he was Rattens right hand man and there was already plenty of tension regarding his position.

Better to give Mick his own choices and avoid having an elephant in the room so to speak....

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:48 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Had to happen.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:22 pm 
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Robert Walls
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....... So are we getting McLeod ?

:eek:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:24 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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The assistant coaches are standing at the back of the queue behind all the players that want to be under Super Coach Mick
Havent got to them yet

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:37 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Position redundant means less payout. We can't replace him for 6 months.
May find the next appointment is a "skills" or "specialist" coach

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:26 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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Another one bites the dust.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:29 pm 
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Trevor Keogh

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so ,who is left?
Mick, Wiley, Barker, and the vfl coach whom i cant remember his name.

Is that it? so one more than ?


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