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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:09 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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JohnM wrote:
fraser murphy wrote:
JohnM wrote:
It's an interesting topic, IMO.

For what it's worth, specifically in the case of Roos, I see him as having a progressive outlook (more specifically, I see him as seeing himself having a progressive outlook) and the feeling I get from Carlton is that it's an organisation that's relatively old-school in its approach to things.

We've got nice new facilities, but I don't think we've got the mindset to go with them really. Not the the extent that would make a Paul Roos feel comfortable.

Just my opinion, based on nothing more than Denis Denuto's 'vibe'. But I tend to trust my vibes.



I get that 'vibe' too, but I posed the question because in all honesty I have no idea what goes on inside the club. I simply like watching my team play footy.

Not to knock your post John, but I was wondering if you could clarify/elaborate what you mean by the terms "progressive" and "old-school" in regards to how an organisation is run?


Sure.

In large part, I think every traditional Victorian club (merely by the weight of their history) is going to be a little more weighed down (or at least influenced) by their past. So in some way, the organisation can't help but be defined by what's gone before. Same for Richmond and Collingwood and Essendon* too, it's not just us. So when a guy like Roos comes in, he's part of a chain that stretches back a long, long way. And he'd know it too.

You know - you take the coaching role at Collingwood, and on Day 1 some 90 year old is going to bale you up about Jock McHale. And at Richmond, it'll be Tommy Hafey and the 1960's and all that stuff.

But a club like West Coast, or Adelaide, or the Sydney Swans (forget the fact they used to be SMFC, they were a brand new entity up in the harbour city) doesn't really have the past. Not so many old ex players, or old deeds. Only the hope for what's to come. Any history they have is modern history.

So there's that (which is all very wanky new-age stuff. But I reckon that's what Roosy is into.

Then there's the feeling I get that Carlton still has a way to go in regards to embracing the new era it finds itself in. We seem like a club that isn't all that comfortable embracing change. After the shock of our first wooden spoons and the culture-shock of Pagan, it appears as if we deliberately decided to return to our roots for a while... to follow more comfortable old patterns and behaviours.

The Patriarch in Pratty. The Gun Signing in Juddy. The coach who barracked in the box. Very navy blue, very Carlton. Maybe not so very appealing to an individual like Roos.

I'm not saying that what we're doing is wrong - I'm a great believer in embracing your history (but more importantly, learning from it) and not denying who you are and what makes you strong. But just putting forward why I think that a guy like Roos wouldn't necessarily see Carlton as 'his' kind of club.

I also get the feeling that he doesn't think too highly of us, from his pressers. You can sometimes sense grudging admiration or respect from opposition coaches... but from Roos, I sense a degree of animosity. I genuinely don't think he likes our club all that much. Again, it's the Denuto Defense.



Thanks for elaborating John. :thumbsup:

Supposing for a moment that the ''vibe'' we both feel is an accurate representation of the club's culture (and once again I must reiterate that I have NFI if it is the case), it greatly decreases the amount of options we have in choosing applicants for any position at the club. I would wager that Carlton at the present moment has very little admiration or respect (grudgingly given or otherwise), from outside the club. The animosity, I would imagine, remains strong however.

If true, this is a very poor position to be in.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:32 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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JohnM wrote:
I also get the feeling that he doesn't think too highly of us, from his pressers. You can sometimes sense grudging admiration or respect from opposition coaches... but from Roos, I sense a degree of animosity. I genuinely don't think he likes our club all that much. Again, it's the Denuto Defense.


You're on the money there. His barely concealed contempt has been ... well, barely concealed.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:33 am 
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Bruce Doull
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I'm sick of Ratts going out of his way to say abso @#$%&! lutely nothing. I can't remember the last time he said something interesting.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:46 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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The Duke wrote:
I'm sick of Ratts going out of his way to say abso !@#$%& lutely nothing. I can't remember the last time he said something interesting.


GET BOLT

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:52 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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People really go over the top, both when we win and when we lose.

Whilst I was not there, I wateched the Freo game on tv, and it seemed like one of those games nothing would go our way. Unlike the North game the effort and intensity were there.

We are 7-6, most people thought we were going to be worse than that.

We are not Geelong, or Carlton 1995, we will lose games. We are still young and the consistency is not there yet. I would love us to win every week, and I am not convinced of Ratts, but deciding his future is done over long term trends, not on a game by game basis.

In his tenure I would give him a pass at this stage, but I still don't know if he is the man to take us to the top 4 and beyond.

Anything could still happen this year, we could win the flag, we could miss the 8. Most likely we will win similar to last year and possibly win a final which most people would have taken at Round 1 as a pass mark.

The biggest mistake under Ratts the club has made thus far is the recruitment of McLean. And we didn't think Shane Tuck was worth a 2nd round pick :donk:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:25 pm 
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Garry Crane

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Agreed that any decision must be deferred until the end of this year....

however, in order to make an informed decision at that time I will be watching the following things closely over the remainder of the season:

1. whether we develop a game plan (ie. a structured and efficient way of moving the ball from defence to attack)?

2. how our mature age recruits (who presumably were selected by the match committee) such as mclean, warnock, hadley, johnson etc continue to develop and contribute to the team ?

3. how we structure our forward line to generate winning scores ?

4. how we set up our midfield to maximise our strengths (eg. how do we free up judd/murphy, use gibbs, lock down opposition etc)

5. how we develop our younger generation (eg. bower, hampson, grigg, lucas, robinson, yarran etc) ?

These are the areas where I will be focussing to be able to assess how our football committee (headed by our senior coach) are tracking ....

And our whole football committee should be held to high standards because as our great ex-President (RIP) demanded ...Carlton deserve the best in every area...which means we should not merely settle for the best available !!!

So at year end, the hard question that demands to be asked is:

Based on all the evidence, are Messrs Ratten, Riley, Montgomery, Lappin, Harvey et al the VERY BEST going around ?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:37 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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Could we maybe postpone this thread until the end of the season ?. Lets wait and see where the boys finish and then we'll be able to make
a proper judgement regarding Rattens year.

Really !!!!!!,,,,,,,, any comments about sacking Ratten now are premature !!

Ratten said their goal for 2010 is to make the 8 and to win at least 1 Final. Personally I dont think he will achieve this but will be interesting
to see what he is going to pull of his back of tricks to get em there !!!!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:41 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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livolover wrote:
Agreed that any decision must be deferred until the end of this year....

however, in order to make an informed decision at that time I will be watching the following things closely over the remainder of the season:

1. whether we develop a game plan (ie. a structured and efficient way of moving the ball from defence to attack)?

2. how our mature age recruits (who presumably were selected by the match committee) such as mclean, warnock, hadley, johnson etc continue to develop and contribute to the team ?

3. how we structure our forward line to generate winning scores ?

4. how we set up our midfield to maximise our strengths (eg. how do we free up judd/murphy, use gibbs, lock down opposition etc)

5. how we develop our younger generation (eg. bower, hampson, grigg, lucas, robinson, yarran etc) ?

These are the areas where I will be focussing to be able to assess how our football committee (headed by our senior coach) are tracking ....

And our whole football committee should be held to high standards because as our great ex-President (RIP) demanded ...Carlton deserve the best in every area...which means we should not merely settle for the best available !!!

So at year end, the hard question that demands to be asked is:

Based on all the evidence, are Messrs Ratten, Riley, Montgomery, Lappin, Harvey et al the VERY BEST going around ?



and this here is a beautiful example of the delusional nature of the football expert in 2010. It has elegantly captured the idea that some unknown banging away on keys may actually have an idea, may actually be able to understand what is happening at the club, can assess things clearly, intelligently and without bias, has all the facts and none of the gossip, but most importantly that it even matters.



It is a delightful post and I congratulate livolover for this quaint expose on the modern football critic/supporter.

In fact it even captures the thing about the Internet

that being that in the old days opinions held and expressed were just minute fluctuations on a breeze

now they fall to the ground, heavy in their own self-importance, not to wither and curl like leaves, sadly, but to lay around and clutter up all manner of things

like plastic

a plague on all our petro-chemical posts!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:22 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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:clap: :clap: :clap: :grin:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:35 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Really, danny?

That's how you see TC?

I prefer to liken it to a vast ocean.

Water, water, everywhere...

so let's all have a drink.



also, they're both blue.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:43 pm 
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Robert Walls

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dannyboy wrote:
livolover wrote:
Agreed that any decision must be deferred until the end of this year....

however, in order to make an informed decision at that time I will be watching the following things closely over the remainder of the season:

1. whether we develop a game plan (ie. a structured and efficient way of moving the ball from defence to attack)?

2. how our mature age recruits (who presumably were selected by the match committee) such as mclean, warnock, hadley, johnson etc continue to develop and contribute to the team ?

3. how we structure our forward line to generate winning scores ?

4. how we set up our midfield to maximise our strengths (eg. how do we free up judd/murphy, use gibbs, lock down opposition etc)

5. how we develop our younger generation (eg. bower, hampson, grigg, lucas, robinson, yarran etc) ?

These are the areas where I will be focussing to be able to assess how our football committee (headed by our senior coach) are tracking ....

And our whole football committee should be held to high standards because as our great ex-President (RIP) demanded ...Carlton deserve the best in every area...which means we should not merely settle for the best available !!!

So at year end, the hard question that demands to be asked is:

Based on all the evidence, are Messrs Ratten, Riley, Montgomery, Lappin, Harvey et al the VERY BEST going around ?



and this here is a beautiful example of the delusional nature of the football expert in 2010. It has elegantly captured the idea that some unknown banging away on keys may actually have an idea, may actually be able to understand what is happening at the club, can assess things clearly, intelligently and without bias, has all the facts and none of the gossip, but most importantly that it even matters.



It is a delightful post and I congratulate livolover for this quaint expose on the modern football critic/supporter.

In fact it even captures the thing about the Internet

that being that in the old days opinions held and expressed were just minute fluctuations on a breeze

now they fall to the ground, heavy in their own self-importance, not to wither and curl like leaves, sadly, but to lay around and clutter up all manner of things

like plastic

a plague on all our petro-chemical posts!



Well DB. practice what you spew out.
Your sanctimonious critique of livoliver's opinion is no less superflous cyberspace clutter than his (although I believe he makes quite a few valid points)
Rebutt his argument if you want to, but sounding like some old bitter and twisted washed up thespian queen (NTTAWWT) reviewing the latest East End production serves no purpose

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:49 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Dannyboy,

How about you shut the @#$%&! up with the personal attacks? Stop playing the man and reply to his post instead of calling him delusional and idiotic.

Calling him self importance yet you come across as a pompous little arsewipe in that very post.

That 'quaint' enough for you mate?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:23 am 
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Bruce Doull
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and then you get the posters who come in and say stop the personal attacks by using personal attacks

the internet is funny

this thread needs a holiday - come back in september

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:54 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Should we sack Ratten?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:11 pm 
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Ken Hands

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Ratten should do the honorable thing and resign tonight. To allow a team of kids to kick 6 unanswered goals to start the game is beyond belief.
The whole club is a disgrace to its members and its supporters.

Tonights loss will take a long time to get over.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:21 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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At least it clears there air. There is absolutely no doubt now as to what needs to be done. The only issue that remains for me is the President, some others on the board as well as the appointment of the next coach.

As CK posted in another thread....wins over shithouse Dogs, Tigers, Scum........were those sort of wins once more going to wallpaper over the massive cracks?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:26 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Ratts did say we will pose a scary proposition to clubs if we make the finals.

Number 1 we didnt

Number 2... my avatar is scarier

Number 3.. Carlton swagger will only get you so far if youre average....

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:37 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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I think thats when I started worrying about tonights game when Ratts starts carrying on about how @#$%&! dangerous we will be if we make the finals! Holy crap!!! We still had a long way to go!

Of some annoyance was all the talk on here about % boosters. Talk about getting ahead of ourselves...

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Last edited by marciblue on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:44 pm 
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Rod McGregor

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Effes wrote:
At least it clears there air. There is absolutely no doubt now as to what needs to be done.

Absolutely spot on. Been a free-for-all love-fest for Ratten throughout the media this past week. Tonight's result left absolutely no ambiguity as to what the Board needs to do in just over a week's time....none.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:58 pm 
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Robert Walls
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I'm not so sure that Ratts will get the sack.
Especially if we beat St Kilda


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