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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:27 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
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Teddy Hopkins wrote:
david31 wrote:
The key to this game is really to treat it in the same way as we treated the Port game. I get WCE are a basket case but we need to keep the momentum up for this last 6 weeks and I wouldn’t be doing anything that risks our momentum. Percentage could well be a factor against Richmond or Geelong come the end of Rd 24.

Play our best 22 fit players. Don’t rest fit players. If a player is injured or sore to the extent they wouldn’t have played against Port, then don’t play them.

I’d be looking at like for like replacements to the extent possible. Doc is playing well on the wing so I’d be bringing Cowan in for Boyd so as not to upset the structure. I can see arguments for Marchbank too although that makes us pretty tall down back.

The biggest question is how do we replace H. Last year we didn’t replace him with a tall and that worked ok but it puts a huge burden on Charlie. The only like for like replacement on the list is Lemmey and he’s not mature enough to play yet.

Cripps is KP size so play him forward and give him a chance to sharpen up his goal kicking. It will also take some of the mid field stress out of his game hopefully. Being a bull he will take pressure off Charlie.

Keep Dow to replace Cripps as an inside mid.

Cowan to replace Boyd if necessary.

Binns in simply to see what he can do.

No to Pittonet as an old fashioned slow lumbering ruck he is not suited to our new style.

Smallish team so Marchbank as sub.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:30 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Sidefx wrote:
london blue wrote:
Acres would be in the top 6 players in our B&F season to date (and no worse than top 10)

I’m of the view he has been playing wing….and if he hasn’t…,,the work he does is what we want from a winger. Runs the lines and breaks them….some of his intercepts and cut through against Port were first rate.

Many more positives than his occasional turnover

I get your point however a HB does the same role just from further in defence.
Using last game as an example, he spent 70% of his time in the defensive half of the ground, his kicking eff. was 52.9%, he had 6 clangers out of 24 disposals (25%) and 10 turnovers in total with an overall disposal eff. of 66.7%, a little more than occasional. And IIRC most of those clangers were in the offensive half of the ground.
His yearly stats are also pretty similar but a bit better.
What was interesting about the last game was he had 0 one percenters and only 7 pressure acts as opposed to Walsh who had 33.
He also had 7 intercept possesions and more kicks than handballs which explains his kicking eff. % drop.
And also IIRC he was prominent in the first quarter and part of the second then went missing until the 4th.

So what do these stats mean to me.
He's already spending most of his game time in the defensive half anyway and a move back a bit further is not that far a stretch to cover Boyd.
He's a defensive type player that is ordinary by foot which is costly at times when he is playing the spacing role, playing off of HB and breaking lines could be the perfect role for him but at the least he could cover Boyd for a couple of games, rather than moving Doc who is better by foot.
His biggest asset is his body size, he's like Crippa with a tank and the same unreliable leg.
Maybe he needs a run in the middle instead with Crippa up forward to replace Harry.

Moving Doc on the other wing has been a revelation for our ball movement because unlike Acres he is better by foot and more dangerous when in the spacing role, has less clangers and turnovers and can still play the defensive sweeping role easily. This has given players like Walsh and Cotts the space to move more into the offensive part of the wing and at contests, either on rotation or coming in from the centre or HF and create better entries into the F50, an area we have been lacking in for a while.

Anyway it's just a suggestion based on stats and the eye test.
FWIW I'd have Acres possibly in the top 10 players at the club, definatley not the top 6 though, that's a bit of a stretch for me.
I know the B&F is more based on consistency and he has been that, so not sure about that.


I don't know how you can highlight Acres deficiencies, more than occasionally, and want to play him in the backline. His bad kicks were not in the backline. Is that where you want his clangers to happen? I just dont get your line of argument.

Boyd is smaller and more nimble to play on smaller players. Acres turning circle is questionable against a smaller more nimble opponent, I dont think that's a good idea. Marchbank is more mobile/athletic than Acres to play on a smaller opponent, and Cowan has been really back to his attacking ways in the backline, and also a nimble player.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:34 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
london blue wrote:
Acres would be in the top 6 players in our B&F season to date (and no worse than top 10)

I’m of the view he has been playing wing….and if he hasn’t…,,the work he does is what we want from a winger. Runs the lines and breaks them….some of his intercepts and cut through against Port were first rate.

Many more positives than his occasional turnover

I get your point however a HB does the same role just from further in defence.
Using last game as an example, he spent 70% of his time in the defensive half of the ground, his kicking eff. was 52.9%, he had 6 clangers out of 24 disposals (25%) and 10 turnovers in total with an overall disposal eff. of 66.7%, a little more than occasional. And IIRC most of those clangers were in the offensive half of the ground.
His yearly stats are also pretty similar but a bit better.
What was interesting about the last game was he had 0 one percenters and only 7 pressure acts as opposed to Walsh who had 33.
He also had 7 intercept possesions and more kicks than handballs which explains his kicking eff. % drop.
And also IIRC he was prominent in the first quarter and part of the second then went missing until the 4th.

So what do these stats mean to me.
He's already spending most of his game time in the defensive half anyway and a move back a bit further is not that far a stretch to cover Boyd.
He's a defensive type player that is ordinary by foot which is costly at times when he is playing the spacing role, playing off of HB and breaking lines could be the perfect role for him but at the least he could cover Boyd for a couple of games, rather than moving Doc who is better by foot.
His biggest asset is his body size, he's like Crippa with a tank and the same unreliable leg.
Maybe he needs a run in the middle instead with Crippa up forward to replace Harry.

Moving Doc on the other wing has been a revelation for our ball movement because unlike Acres he is better by foot and more dangerous when in the spacing role, has less clangers and turnovers and can still play the defensive sweeping role easily. This has given players like Walsh and Cotts the space to move more into the offensive part of the wing and at contests, either on rotation or coming in from the centre or HF and create better entries into the F50, an area we have been lacking in for a while.

Anyway it's just a suggestion based on stats and the eye test.
FWIW I'd have Acres possibly in the top 10 players at the club, definatley not the top 6 though, that's a bit of a stretch for me.
I know the B&F is more based on consistency and he has been that, so not sure about that.


I don't know how you can highlight Acres deficiencies, more than occasionally, and want to play him in the backline. His bad kicks were not in the backline. Is that where you want his clangers to happen? I just dont get your line of argument.

Boyd is smaller and more nimble to play on smaller players. Acres turning circle is questionable against a smaller more nimble opponent, I dont think that's a good idea. Marchbank is more mobile/athletic than Acres to play on a smaller opponent, and Cowan has been really back to his attacking ways in the backline, and also a nimble player.

Simply, coming out of the backline he'd most likely turn the ball over in the centre of the wings.
I'd prefer it there than anywhere else.
But he'd be more likely to use his hands coming out of defence anyway, like he has been.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:36 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18051
Sidefx wrote:
Walsh's heat map from last week was centre and wing.
Freo game was Centre and HF/F pocket.
Hawks game was mainly wing.


That's his role. Start half forward/changing mid and push up into the stoppages. Look at the starting positions at centre bounces. That's the only time players commence in their starting positions. Docherty/Acres are wingers with Cottrell rotating when they take a break. Walsh has been there rarely in the past month.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:38 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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All this talk about Acres and his issues.

You lot want want a player without issues?

Get Kouta out of retirement. He even won Dancing with the Stars.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:58 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Blue Vain wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Walsh's heat map from last week was centre and wing.
Freo game was Centre and HF/F pocket.
Hawks game was mainly wing.


That's his role. Start half forward/changing mid and push up into the stoppages. Look at the starting positions at centre bounces. That's the only time players commence in their starting positions. Docherty/Acres are wingers with Cottrell rotating when they take a break. Walsh has been there rarely in the past month.

I'm just going by heat maps and where they are actually playing.
Starting positions are less relevant with the way the game has changed IMO, especially with us.
Mainly because we are still missing a couple of key players with the right attributes to play their roles solely. e.g. Skills, speed and IQ.
Backs run further up the ground now like Newman and Cink, wings are more defensive for us but less for other clubs (eg. Demons) and forwards are now getting back into D50. Cripps, Cerra and Hewett stay in the corridor for the majority of their game time and players like Walsh move more to the wings.
Just because he doesn't start there it doesn't mean he's not playing a wing role also.
It's where he has been doing so much damage lately.
Voss seems to be using our other wings as extra defenders mainly, Acres 70% and Doc 80% in the defensive half last week.
He has essentially split the role IMO.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:22 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18051
No worries, each to their own. The players go where the ball is anyway. Footy never changes. :grin:
Whatever the case, they're all playing good footy and it's good to be winning.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:42 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Paddycripps wrote:
Dodo27 wrote:
Owies is a much better small forward than the rest. .
.

Might be true but equally I cannot ever see him snagging 4 in a half

Motlop and Little Durds should go past him in the next 2 years

You are right in so far as he has runs on the board and is our most consistent small forward but it is hard to drop a guy who kicked 4 in a half to help set up a win against the second team on the ladder

Good problem to have though


Owies out for 1-2 weeks with a low grade strain so that makes it easy

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:43 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Binns in this week?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:44 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Cerra will miss also with hamstring tightness.

Dow gets a full game.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:55 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Blue Vain wrote:
No worries, each to their own. The players go where the ball is anyway. Footy never changes. :grin:
Whatever the case, they're all playing good footy and it's good to be winning.

I agree, whatever way we want to split hairs, Walsh started his career with us as a wing and I still think it's his best position.
We just lack another player who is quick and can kick in the centre, otherwise I'm sure Voss would have him parked on the wing.
As I said earlier, Walsh and Doc are our most damaging wings.
This doesn't mean Acres doesn't play wing (I'm still not sure how that was interpreted) or he is not a wing, it just means he's not as good IMO.
Only because he can't kick the footy and players who can mark and can win the ball but can't kick are usually defenders, hence my suggestion of HB.

But you are right, the players follow the ball.
And it's great to be winning again, last week was our best performance across the board IMO.
I was happy to hear Crippa after the game talking about playing roles, about time.

I also agree with you on this week being a soft game, it's never usually good for the week after and we need to be good next week.
4 out of 6 to make the finals in my predictions, I hope we don't leave it to the last round again, fingers crossed.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 6:01 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
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If we win by 50pts we'll be the 3rd side in history to win 5 successive games by that margin. Could argue the 2nd side given Geelong did it the other two times, in 1989 and 2008.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 6:10 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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looks like half a Dozen players will be missing this week due to niggling injuries which translates into resting players up and not taking WC seriousely. Hope it does not come back to bite them


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 6:19 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Dodo27 wrote:
looks like half a Dozen players will be missing this week due to niggling injuries which translates into resting players up and not taking WC seriousely. Hope it does not come back to bite them

Harry, Cerra, Boyd, Saad?, Gov?, ??

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 7:09 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Paddycripps wrote:
Dodo27 wrote:
Owies is a much better small forward than the rest. .
.

Might be true but equally I cannot ever see him snagging 4 in a half

Motlop and Little Durds should go past him in the next 2 years

You are right in so far as he has runs on the board and is our most consistent small forward but it is hard to drop a guy who kicked 4 in a half to help set up a win against the second team on the ladder

Good problem to have though


Absolutely, on all points.

Owies is a 26yo professional athlete in 2 codes and 2 countries; he's seasoned.
Motlop and Durdin are 20 and 21 this year. Huge advantage for Owies, given 5 preseasons to 1&2.
They will pass Owies, and they better, pass Owies, at least one of them and hopefully its now, and the penny has dropped.
I'm not crazy about Motlops defensive size. He handles the weight division but gets carried or brushed aside too easy in tackles for Finals footy, and the game vs Pies, well that is finals footy.
Hope he plays vs Weagles to see where he's at over 4 quarters.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 7:11 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Dodo27 wrote:
looks like half a Dozen players will be missing this week due to niggling injuries which translates into resting players up and not taking WC seriousely. Hope it does not come back to bite them


Who?

Boyd
McKay
...

Saad?
Weiters?

...???

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 7:12 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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No point in risking Cerra... give him a week to rest....


If I was Voss, I would experiment a bit. I would bring in both Marchbank and Young and then move Gov up forward as a 2nd main Forward.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 7:14 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Teddy Hopkins wrote:
All this talk about Acres and his issues.

You lot want want a player without issues?

Get Kouta out of retirement. He even won Dancing with the Stars.


:clap: :clap: :clap:

Its a good time to be a Bluebagger. FMD about time.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 7:15 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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bondiblue wrote:
Teddy Hopkins wrote:
All this talk about Acres and his issues.

You lot want want a player without issues?

Get Kouta out of retirement. He even won Dancing with the Stars.


:clap: :clap: :clap:

Its a good time to be a Bluebagger. FMD about time.


That sounds terrible.
Its always good being a Bluebagger...for lots of reasons. More than you could count. :sly:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 7:21 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Sidefx wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Walsh's heat map from last week was centre and wing.
Freo game was Centre and HF/F pocket.
Hawks game was mainly wing.


That's his role. Start half forward/changing mid and push up into the stoppages. Look at the starting positions at centre bounces. That's the only time players commence in their starting positions. Docherty/Acres are wingers with Cottrell rotating when they take a break. Walsh has been there rarely in the past month.

I'm just going by heat maps and where they are actually playing.
Starting positions are less relevant with the way the game has changed IMO, especially with us.
Mainly because we are still missing a couple of key players with the right attributes to play their roles solely. e.g. Skills, speed and IQ.
Backs run further up the ground now like Newman and Cink, wings are more defensive for us but less for other clubs (eg. Demons) and forwards are now getting back into D50. Cripps, Cerra and Hewett stay in the corridor for the majority of their game time and players like Walsh move more to the wings.
Just because he doesn't start there it doesn't mean he's not playing a wing role also.
It's where he has been doing so much damage lately.
Voss seems to be using our other wings as extra defenders mainly, Acres 70% and Doc 80% in the defensive half last week.
He has essentially split the role IMO.


Wing Wing
Wing Wing

Hello? who is it?

Carlton plays 4 wings.
Everyone is right. Give us the cup.

I'd love to see the kms run comparing us against other clubs each especially recently.
There seems a need to run to a contest ... every time it presents mentality.
This is a new approach, and a taxing one, but maybe when winning the contest it makes running easier than the opposite.

I'm really smelling something better than last time they cooked. :wink:

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