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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:11 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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It's amazing we're 3-0 when half the team are apparently not good enough :)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:30 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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GreatEx wrote:
It's amazing we're 3-0 when half the team are apparently not good enough :)

After 10-12 years of misery not surprising some of us are a little cautious.

We could do with a Big Nick in the ruck, Jezza at half forward, Doull at half back, Crane on the wing. Then I would be happy. :smile:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:41 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Blues21 wrote:
club29 wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Blues21 wrote:
I'm really surprised there's been no discussion about Williams. Yes he gets a lot of the ball but he turns it over too often. Stocker will be eyeing hi position in 2 weeks.

Am I the only one who saw him drop his head late in the second qtr, drop the mark which resulted in a goal to teh Hawks? Classic footsteps from my position. It won't have gone unnoticed by Voss in the box.



That mark that slipped through his hands was painful, but I didn't see him drop his head. I have seen him do it though in the praccy game.

I wasn't happy with his fumbling, but he took the opposition on, gained 0ver 600 metres, more than anyone on the ground including JC, and he changed angles like Doch and saad can do. They are a great mix. Williams is an important part of that group. The backline was under relentless pressure and lets face it, the opposition only scored 11 goals over 120 minutes. Not their fault we kicked it to JC and Sicily ad nauseum.

There's supporters who don't like certain players. That's normal. Williams has a few Carlton supporters who are still dirty with his output in the midfield last year and the size of the pay packet.

Forget the size of his salary. He didn't cost us players or draft picks.

I'd lay serious money on Williams keeping his spot and more money that it wont be Stocker who takes his spot. Williams is a unique player and different to Docherty and Saad and stocker. The mix is fantastic.

I wonder if you think Newman is ahead of Williams in the pecking order. If not, that's whose spot I think Stocker will take...if/when Stocker finds the form to warrant selection.

Williams is a keeper.


His kickouts were good too.


He 100% dropped his head and shit himself. It was an easy mark, he braced for contact and none came.

Stocker wouldn't do that.

These little things are critical in building team ethos. When its your turn to go you go.

Will he get dropped? No. Will it get raised at the reviews this week. Absolutely will.


I saw it on replay. Many supporters have mentioned it to me, but they haven't suggested dropping him against the body of work he's given us.
That's the 2nd time Ive seen him do it though.
No doubt Voss will bring it up. You can't hide the fact. Its a bad look.
We shouldn't drop him for it, because there's ample examples of him hard at the ball and man.
Glad its happened and hopefully its something he can look back as something in the past...and don't do it again.

I'm a small fella who always went for his marks, and I was always taught to go for the ball, stiffen up the body when going for the mark and expecting to be hit ie make it taut to absorb the hit.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:56 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Fisher already has stints in the middle and on the wing. On Sunday JSOS had a stint on the wing.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 4:10 pm 
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formerly BlueRob
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Stocker is a lock in our best 22. He is the Fraser Brown of this group. Looking forward to his return but not for this game.
Dow and Motlop were best in the reserves and should be the next ones to get opportunity. Kemp not far behind.
We should win this game easily as long as we don't keep bombing the ball haphazardly.

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Last edited by BigBlueWave on Tue Apr 05, 2022 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 4:10 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24686
Location: Bondi Beach
Beijing Blue wrote:
Blues21 wrote:
club29 wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Blues21 wrote:
I'm really surprised there's been no discussion about Williams. Yes he gets a lot of the ball but he turns it over too often. Stocker will be eyeing hi position in 2 weeks.

Am I the only one who saw him drop his head late in the second qtr, drop the mark which resulted in a goal to teh Hawks? Classic footsteps from my position. It won't have gone unnoticed by Voss in the box.



That mark that slipped through his hands was painful, but I didn't see him drop his head. I have seen him do it though in the praccy game.

I wasn't happy with his fumbling, but he took the opposition on, gained 0ver 600 metres, more than anyone on the ground including JC, and he changed angles like Doch and saad can do. They are a great mix. Williams is an important part of that group. The backline was under relentless pressure and lets face it, the opposition only scored 11 goals over 120 minutes. Not their fault we kicked it to JC and Sicily ad nauseum.

There's supporters who don't like certain players. That's normal. Williams has a few Carlton supporters who are still dirty with his output in the midfield last year and the size of the pay packet.

Forget the size of his salary. He didn't cost us players or draft picks.

I'd lay serious money on Williams keeping his spot and more money that it wont be Stocker who takes his spot. Williams is a unique player and different to Docherty and Saad and stocker. The mix is fantastic.

I wonder if you think Newman is ahead of Williams in the pecking order. If not, that's whose spot I think Stocker will take...if/when Stocker finds the form to warrant selection.

Williams is a keeper.


His kickouts were good too.


He 100% dropped his head and shit himself. It was an easy mark, he braced for contact and none came.

Stocker wouldn't do that. (Have a look at Stocker's mark in the last quarter of the reserves at CHB. Yes he marks it, but you can see he braces himself for the inevitable hit, and the head drops a bit. Its normal to do. He did hold the mark whereas Williams didn't)

These little things are critical in building team ethos. When its your turn to go you go.

Will he get dropped? No. Will it get raised at the reviews this week. Absolutely will.


Williams is just a battler. When we are good, he will not be a regular. I have watched him live this year and not impressed. Lacks poise.


You need to qualify when to consider us a Good Team! We are Good now at 3 zip. Are you talking about a Finals team come year's end? If so, I bet you are wrong.

He's not a battler. That's a throw away line. You just want him gone. No battler would have teams lining up and offering huge contracts to get him to their team. No Team.

I would hazard a guess you're blinded by bias against Willliams. You have formulated an opinion and totally disregard any of the AFL qualities he brings to the team.

I've watched him live plenty at GWS and at Carlton this year too, and last year. Williams isn't perfect, he takes risks, and with that he makes mistakes too, hence a B Grader, but he has played a lot of games like an A Grader. Battler's don't do that; they can't. He's a damn good player, and with Saad forms part of a formidable attacking HB line, making it hard to close down. He's really important to the team, despite the cost. The cost now is irrelevant.

Stocker will be selected soon enough, and I bet its not at the expense of Williams. If its not Williams, have a guess whose spot he's eyeing.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 4:12 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Teddy Hopkins wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
It's amazing we're 3-0 when half the team are apparently not good enough :)

After 10-12 years of misery not surprising some of us are a little cautious.

We could do with a Big Nick in the ruck, Jezza at half forward, Doull at half back, Crane on the wing. Then I would be happy. :smile:


Crosswell too please, and if its a Grand Final ... would like a bit of Teddy Hopkins too. :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 6:27 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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bondiblue wrote:
Teddy Hopkins wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
It's amazing we're 3-0 when half the team are apparently not good enough :)

After 10-12 years of misery not surprising some of us are a little cautious.

We could do with a Big Nick in the ruck, Jezza at half forward, Doull at half back, Crane on the wing. Then I would be happy. :smile:


Crosswell too please, and if its a Grand Final ... would like a bit of Teddy Hopkins too. :wink:


Quick plug for Swan too!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 7:32 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:52 pm
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Williams has played midfield in a grand final team and had a BOG performance in a prelim the week before that.

Gee we'll be doing well if he's considered not good enough for us in finals.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:57 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:08 pm
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Here is my view. First, don't risk Pittonet and MacDonald given back problems and an interstate plane trip. Setterfield, O'Brien and Fisher have been the least impressive of the small men over the journey, notwithstanding O'Brien has shown marked improvement, Setterfield has had his moments and Fisher is a bit of a favourite of mine. Newman a bit lucky not to risk the cut as well but don't want 5 changes to the team. Play Williams up on a wing and see how he goes. No problem with going smaller given the time and location of game and the weather forecast. I don't mind making a few changes given the team has not been running out games and the 2s have been better at that. Also, Vossy was at pains in the after match presser to talk about the need to have a squad mentality. So, out Pittonet (managed - play him in the 2s if fit enough, otherwise give him a week to get his back better - same with MacDonald) Fisher O'Brien and Setterfield. Boyd hasn't been as good as his abilities justify, I think he is a bit overawed at the moment but more game time in the 1s will either allow him to adjust to the tempo and show his speed, precision delivery, versatility and ability to play lockdown small defender better than anyone else on our list. I see him potentially as a Dennis Armfield with precision kicking and I was a huge Armfield fan. If he doesn't get up to speed after a decent run in the 1s back to the 2s and dominate in order to get anther chance when a spot opens up again.

So, IN Dow (solid good form in the 2s), Fogarty (solid form 1s and 2s), Saad (return from covid) and Motlop (too good for 2s, get in whilst his confidence is high. Also although a forward can press up higher thn Owies or Durdin neither of whom have his length of kick. OUT Pitonet (managed) Fisher O'Brien Setterfield (omitted)

Something like:

Boyd Young Plowman
Saad Weitering Docherty
Williams Cripps Walsh
Durdin C Curnow Motlop
McKay Silvagni Owies
De Konning Cerra Hewett (tagging Miller)
Dow Fogarty Kennedy Martin Emerg Newman Travelling 2nd emergency Kemp - can play pretty much any role so ideal for coverage.

We SHOULD smash these guys if our mindset is right.


Last edited by ianh on Wed Apr 06, 2022 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:06 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Two changes
Saad for Boyd
I would give Motlop a taste at the expense of Fisher.

Need to find space for Martin but who makes way I'm not so sure. Just think he has skills we should use whilst he is fit. He is likely to break down again anytime soon.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:22 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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ianh wrote:
Here is my view. First, don't risk Pittonet and MacDonald given back problems and an interstate plane trip. Setterfield, O'Brien and Fisher have been the least impressive of the small men over the journey, notwithstanding O'Brien has shown marked improvement, Setterfield has had his moments and Fisher is a bit of a favourite of mine. Newman a bit lucky not to risk the cut as well but don't want 5 changes to the team. Play Williams up on a wing and see how he goes. No problem with going smaller given the time and location of game and the weather forecast. I don't mind making a few changes given the team has not been running out games and the 2s have been better at that. So, out Pittonet (managed - play him in the 2s if fit enough, otherwise give him a week to get his back better - same with MacDonald) Fisher O'Brien and Setterfield. Boyd hasn't been as good as his abilities justify, I think he is a bit overawed at the moment but more game time in the 1s will either allow him to adjust to the tempo and show his speed, precision delivery, versatility and ability to play lockdown small defender better than anyone else on our list. I see him potentially as a Dennis Armfield with precision kicking and I was a huge Armfield fan. If he doesn't get up to speed after a decent run in the 1s back to the 2s and dominate in order to get anther chance when a spot opens up again.

So, IN Dow (solid good form in the 2s), Fogarty (solid form 1s and 2s), Saad (return from covid) and Motlop (too good for 2s, get in whilst his confidence is high. Also although a forward can press up higher thn Owies or Durdin neither of whom have his length of kick. OUT Pitonet (managed) Fisher O'Brien Setterfield (omitted)

Something like:

Boyd Young Plowman
Saad Weitering Docherty
Williams Cripps Walsh
Durdin C Curnow Motlop
McKay Silvagni Owies
De Konning Cerra Hewett (tagging Miller)
Dow Fogarty Kennedy Martin Emerg Newman Travelling 2nd emergency Kemp - can play pretty much any role so ideal for coverage.


We SHOULD smash these guys if our mindset is right.


Agree with your overall summation Ian. Give Boyd a few games. How many has LOB been gifted.

Changes

IN: Dow; Martin Motlop

OUT: Fisher; LOB; Setterfield.

The 3 ins should be better in the wet and better anyway.

I will wait on Pittonet and the weather. I wouldn't be adverse to Newnes if Pittonet doesn't play. Tough player.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:46 am 
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formerly King Kenny
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The_Cranium wrote:
Blues21 wrote:
I'm really surprised there's been no discussion about Williams. Yes he gets a lot of the ball but he turns it over too often. Stocker will be eyeing hi position in 2 weeks.

Am I the only one who saw him drop his head late in the second qtr, drop the mark which resulted in a goal to teh Hawks? Classic footsteps from my position. It won't have gone unnoticed by Voss in the box.


I absolutely saw this. I sent a message to my mate at the time Williams = Squib. He absolutely heard footsteps and shit himself and it cost us a goal. I have no doubt that he would have been told about it and told to harden up


For me Williams is playing fine, dropped a mark or two, but his foot skills have been great for me.

Stocker has to take someone spot, but let him get fitness levels and bang the door down.

For me, Plow is good for little guys only, but Stocker is a better fit.

Stocker, Young, GoV
Doc, Weiters, Saad

7th defender Williams.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 8:31 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Nick wrote:
Williams has played midfield in a grand final team and had a BOG performance in a prelim the week before that.

Gee we'll be doing well if he's considered not good enough for us in finals.


Williams has shown some really good signs in the past 2 weeks. I don't think he is far away from his best football. If we can control the midfield and lock it in inside forwrad 50 better our rebound defence will just be another weapon. Saad will help more

The way it was coming in in the 2nd half last week would have made it hard for anyone. I thought Williams Weitering Docherty were awesome considering how quick it was rebounding


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 8:54 am 
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Rod Ashman
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bondiblue wrote:
Teddy Hopkins wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
It's amazing we're 3-0 when half the team are apparently not good enough :)

After 10-12 years of misery not surprising some of us are a little cautious.

We could do with a Big Nick in the ruck, Jezza at half forward, Doull at half back, Crane on the wing. Then I would be happy. :smile:


Crosswell too please, and if its a Grand Final ... would like a bit of Teddy Hopkins too. :wink:



If its a grand final I want the Dominator. No better big time player.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 9:08 am 
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Rod Ashman
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GreatEx wrote:
It's amazing we're 3-0 when half the team are apparently not good enough :)



I agree. Too many people suggesting we TRY players and see how they go. No thanks, I want the best team to win the 4 points. If they haven't trained in a position then no thanks. Boyd replaced Saad who will be available this week so Saad in and Boyd out. The only other change I would suggest is due to the forecast weather. One of TDK or Pittonet to miss for Martin. Otherwise the team should stay as it is.
I disagree with the Setterfield comments. I think he has been playing well and is holding his spot. He can keep position over the ball so will be OK in the wet. LOB on the other hand might struggle, so as suggested above it may be prudent to bring in Newnes to replace LOB due to weather. I do not think that will happen but it would not be a surprise.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:41 am 
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Rod McGregor

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:06 pm
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No sure how we can be 3-0 and making five changes with three blokes dropped? Leave Pitto out to rest up, play TdeK and Jack in the ruck. Saad in for Boyd, Martin into the 22, the sub can be Dow.

Longer term, like others I'm still not convinced by LOB. I see Stocker taking Newmans spot within a couple of weeks.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:58 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24686
Location: Bondi Beach
Teddy Hopkins wrote:
ianh wrote:
Here is my view. First, don't risk Pittonet and MacDonald given back problems and an interstate plane trip. Setterfield, O'Brien and Fisher have been the least impressive of the small men over the journey, notwithstanding O'Brien has shown marked improvement, Setterfield has had his moments and Fisher is a bit of a favourite of mine. Newman a bit lucky not to risk the cut as well but don't want 5 changes to the team. Play Williams up on a wing and see how he goes. No problem with going smaller given the time and location of game and the weather forecast. I don't mind making a few changes given the team has not been running out games and the 2s have been better at that. So, out Pittonet (managed - play him in the 2s if fit enough, otherwise give him a week to get his back better - same with MacDonald) Fisher O'Brien and Setterfield. Boyd hasn't been as good as his abilities justify, I think he is a bit overawed at the moment but more game time in the 1s will either allow him to adjust to the tempo and show his speed, precision delivery, versatility and ability to play lockdown small defender better than anyone else on our list. I see him potentially as a Dennis Armfield with precision kicking and I was a huge Armfield fan. If he doesn't get up to speed after a decent run in the 1s back to the 2s and dominate in order to get anther chance when a spot opens up again.

So, IN Dow (solid good form in the 2s), Fogarty (solid form 1s and 2s), Saad (return from covid) and Motlop (too good for 2s, get in whilst his confidence is high. Also although a forward can press up higher thn Owies or Durdin neither of whom have his length of kick. OUT Pitonet (managed) Fisher O'Brien Setterfield (omitted)

Something like:

Boyd Young Plowman
Saad Weitering Docherty
Williams Cripps Walsh
Durdin C Curnow Motlop
McKay Silvagni Owies
De Konning Cerra Hewett (tagging Miller)
Dow Fogarty Kennedy Martin Emerg Newman Travelling 2nd emergency Kemp - can play pretty much any role so ideal for coverage.


We SHOULD smash these guys if our mindset is right.


Agree with your overall summation Ian. Give Boyd a few games. How many has LOB been gifted.

Changes

IN: Dow; Martin Motlop

OUT: Fisher; LOB; Setterfield.

The 3 ins should be better in the wet and better anyway.

I will wait on Pittonet and the weather. I wouldn't be adverse to Newnes if Pittonet doesn't play. Tough player.


In support of Dow's performance was his coach who said the following about Dow's game on the weekend in the VFL:

Quote:
“Enormous from ‘Dowy’, who was getting heavily tagged in the first half and he was able to just work through it and off the back of that to finish with the numbers he had was amazing. I think he had 15 clearances and seven of them were from the centre so it’s a pretty dominant game.


The most important word I see there is "Dominant". There's obviously plenty of reason to admire Dow, Teddy. I'm not sure if much of what he says is to pump up Dow's outlook, given he's winning 30 possessions a game, with no midfielder injured or out of form for him to replace. I'm just guessing. Maybe, Dow is being considered for this week's game at Metricon.

I didn't notice a "heavy" tag even when I revisited the game, but hey, coach knows what was heavy or not better than a bloke watching the screen. No doubt he will get his turn, but not sure where and whom he will replace.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 11:04 am 
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Robert Walls

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Interestingly, our VFL side plays at the exact same time as our senior side, both on the Good Coast.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 11:07 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24686
Location: Bondi Beach
Forecast for Surfers Paradise

Sunday 10 April
Min 19 °C Max 27 °C
Shower or two.
Possible rainfall: 0 to 1 mm
Chance of any rain:60%
Winds southerly 15 to 20 km/h turning southeasterly during the day.

Monday 11 April
Min 19 °C Max 29 °C
Mostly sunny.
Possible rainfall:0 mm
Chance of any rain:10%
Mostly sunny. Light winds.

Suggests to me there will be hardly any rain in the morning, and looks to be clearing in the afternoon, given they are going into a sunny day on Monday.
12-20 km winds should dry up the ground by game time.

Game starts 4.10 pm

I hope Pittonet's back is fine to play and team up with TDK vs Witts, Chol & Levi.

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