Sometimes it's difficult not to visit the cemetery and pay respects to the grave site...

and pray for a miracle

Let us read from Isaiah 40:31

But they who wait for the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint.


(kind of sounds like a supplement program)

_________________
Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

Typical Gen Y response (even though I think you're shit stirring - but we've never met so I can't be sure)

Once upon a time Dane, the club didn't stuff up. Now - it's a weekly occurrence. And it's because there's a big @#$%&! bubble around the place. Now - unlike 99% of people on here - I have tried to penetrate the bubble. I like some people in the place and I meet with them on a semi-regular basis to 'chew the fat' over things pertaining to off-field Carlton.

I knew a long time ago that the 150 list was coming out...but I had no idea they could actually stuff this up. Not with the Blueseum at their disposal. In fact - there are a few people who contribute to the Blueseum who know a thing or two more about the club than me who would have been a tremendous resource to the selection committee.

But with the likes of Tony de Bolfo and Swan McKay on board - I had faith that the likes of Bret Thornton wouldn't be selected (wouldn't be in my top 300) and the likes of Jack Baker would.

In case you didn't open my previous link - Jack Baker played 147 games for Carlton between 1882-1888. He won the Champion of the Colony in 1983 (correction...1883) (the forerunner to the Brownlow). He captained the club in 1884 and 1885 and was Vice-Captain in Carlton's 1887 premiership side. He was twice Carlton leading goal scorer in 1883 and 1885. He was considered the best rover in Victoria and is credited as being the originator of handball.

HE INVENTED THE @#$%&!|NG HANDBALL!

So I have every right to suggest they are pissing on the club's rich history. If this is the 'Greatest' Carlton side of 150 years - how the hell was Jack Baker left out with a mere reference by Tony de Bolfo of 'he can consider himself unlucky'. That's bullshit. Utter contempt. The club has a diminishing soul....and soon enough its soul is the only thing it'll have left.

Ratten, Kernahan and Gleeson would have been left out of my criteria because when weighed up - their legacy at the club - playing AND non-playing - has done more damage than good.

Jack Baker was a top get, Doc.

The club had countless "old time resources" at their disposal, they made a big song and dance at last years AGM about recognising it's oldest members, now I'm not saying any of those members would remember Jack Baker playing , but I bet you a few if them may have heard about there father talking about him.

The club clearly didn't bother researching this thoroughly and the results look amateurish and suburban as a result.

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Pagan/Elshaugh severed the on field leadership continuity at the club by 2004/5.

A continuity that was created in the 1960s - the life blood of the playing culture that was based upon excellence an honesty amongst the players.

Ratten never addressed this critical area as senior coach, and neither did out recruitment and development departments (I doubt that they even knew it was a problem - they probably just expected natural leaders to grow into their roles - they don't. they are hard to find let alone develop)

(not saying Pagan was the sole cause, nor that he did this consciously - just the way it worked out)

And if you couple this with an antiquated, stale and backward looking board then no member should be surprised at how the club has performed and the decisions that it has made over the past decade.

malthouse's biggest challenge is not the game plan or even getting the best out of the playing group. Its to rebuild build a strong leadership culture that has depth and quality.

Not sure he is the person for that role - in any case, that task is a Club responsibility from top to bottom, that includes the players themselves.

I expect us to knock off the Bombers this week, and we will get another 7 days of reprieve for the players who will be satisfied with themselves AGAIN, and the first two week's performances will be forgotten - and will almost certainly be repeated during the year.

_________________
Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

Bloody hell, how on earth did they leave this bloke out!

_________________
#DonTheStash

Good to see someone reading my posts CK! *1883. Pretty irrelevant really. You can only dominate in the era you're in. Jack Baker dominated in the 1880's for Carlton...I don't believe Bret Thornton ever dominated anything. He's possibly the only player in that list who would make 'Carlton's worst 150'.

@#$%&! it, I've knocked up a Bottom 100:

Sam Rowe
Luke Mitchell
Pat McCarthy
Andrew Collins
Wayde Twomey
Marcus Davies
Chris Johnson
Greg Bentley
Jake Edwards
Ross Young
Cain Ackland
Jesse Smith
Dylan McLaren
Jason Saddington
Chris Bryan
Troy Longmuir
Stephen Kenna
Adrian DeLuca
Digby Morrell
David Clarke
Glen Bowyer
Ricky Mott
Mick Martyn
Lindsay Smith
Callan Beasy
Sean O'Keeffe
Sam Cranage
David Gallagher
Corey McKernan
Andrew Eccles
Jordan Doering
Adam Pickering
Adam Chatfield
Andrew Merrington
Stephen O'Reilly
Ben Thompson
Heath Culpitt
Murray Vance
John Hynes
Tony Bourke
Trent Hoppner
Damien Lock
Andrew Balkwill
Sam Smart
Jacob Anstey
Mick McGuane
Aaron Hamill
Ben Sexton
Craig Devenport
Peter Green
Scott Spalding
Jeremy Smith
Tim Powell
Paul McCormack
Brendon Parker
Ben Robertson
Mark Athorn
Andrew Cavedon
Michael James
Darren Tarczon
Stephen Edgar
Ashley Matthews
Peter White
Dom Fotia
Simon Verbeek
Andrew McKinnon
Phil Poursanidis
Michael Garvey
Gerard Butts
Steve Da Rui
David Kernahan
Mark Majerczak
Michael Gallagher
Jamie Dunlop
Dean Strauch
Neil Gaghan
Rhett Baynes
Ian Muller
David Honybun
Rohan Brown
Bruce Reid
Ricky Nixon
Mark Williams
Steve Easton
Brendan Hartney
Geoff Hocking
Greg Sharp
Denis Lenaghan
Robert Dutton
Stephen Buckley
Michael Jez
Peter Halsall
Peter Fitzpatrick
Jim Canfield
John Tresize
Tony Southcombe
Peter McKenna
Peter Bedford
Renato Serafini
Trevor Fletcher
Garry Higgins
Danny Halloran
Wayne Deledio
Tony Smith
Max O'Halloran
Graeme Robertson
Lance Styles

Criteria?

No more or less than debating the merits of Kreuzer > "Some bloke from the 1900s"

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

Sorry, but I can't take a bottom 100 list seriously if it doesn't include Trent Hotton. I won't be purchasing the limited edition framed print.

_________________
@cecil_anderson

When it comes to celebrating a club 150th birthday.. i dunno why we have to have a best 150 players decided by Bear Gleeson done like D grade student homework .
Pathetic.

Every player including Watson and Lucas should be celebrated...
Why leave Bosustow out???... hes a Carlton great.. i dont care about the game criteria.
If Williams played a few less he wouldnt make it either?

This is isolating players IMHO.

But its so typical of Carlton these days.
half baked
half arsed

Gleeson.. he must have believed he just made a contribution.....

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

The call on Jamieson was made purely as a comparison to other players selected who played as a key position backman - Dorotich, Beaumont and Manton - and some of his contemporaries - he's been better than Gibbs and Kreuzer over the same time period IMO.

_________________
In WADA we trust

Luke Livingston should be in, Hotton was ok.

Did any of the selection committee even take a cursory glance at "The Blueseum" a resource created by dedicated and passionate Carlton People, which would have alerted them to some of the pre-VFL that should have been considered?

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Thanks for the education on a clearly forgotten champion Doc.

In relation to your views on the club, from my distance it appears that one week you think all is ok and the next we are a rabble - I don't understand why the chop and change all the time

_________________
Between our dreams and actions lies this world

For the most part...off-field (everything but football department) we are going ok in the greater scheme of things but they keep on making dumb and dumber mistakes. The Football Department is an entity unto itself. I don't think they're faring too well. Synbad would like to me merge the two...I can't bring myself to tie the two together. They work separately from one another. CEO's problem.

I'd say, from someone who doesn't have your experience in the field that off field things aren't even ok. eg.

Yesterday was the first time I head a membership ad on the radio (ordinary one at that)
This week was the first real publicity about 150 years and that was minimal
We never hear from Swann (might be a good thing)
Malthouse seems separate from the club, much the same as Pagan did
We don't make our home games an experience for our supporters, we don't engage our 'fans'

Sorry, I could go on, but it's the wrong thread.

_________________
Between our dreams and actions lies this world

Unbelievable.

There is no way I would put Andrew Carrazzo, Bryce Gibbs, Matthew Kreuzer, Marc Murphy, Heath Scotland, Kade Simpson, Jarrad Waite and Andrew Walker on this list...unless it is for complacency and underachieving

What a load of shit

_________________
I will miss you Kouta - thanks for the memories. ps. Kouta > * for ∞

I have no issue with Simpson being on the list.

Would have been a player in any era. Can't say the same for the others though if Murphy had maintained his form from the year he won his Coaches MVP I'd have him in there as well.

_________________
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Surely the Carlton Hall of Fame, Team of the Century and Legends of Carlton etcetera covers our best ever players?

Placing Beaumont alongside Nicholls, Waite alongside Doull and everyone above Bostustow is the latest in a long line of nonsensical decisions by this club.

_________________
Audere est Facere

Disagree about a few of those Rhino

Mainly Verbeek Mckinnon & Da Rui

_________________
#DonTheStash